Difference between fast and slow games

hyperpape · **#21**

Toge wrote:

entropi wrote:

What does it mean if slow accounts rank is much higher (>3 stones) than the fast accounts rank?
What does it mean if fast accounts rank is much higher (>3 stones) than the slow accounts rank?
Assume the ranks are based on enough many games to be more or less accurate.

- It means exactly what the question indicates. Even the underlying premise of asking the question implies that playing a slow game and playing a fast game are two discrete possibilities. What constitutes playing a good game on either fast or slow time setting cannot be applied to the other, hence the difference in rank.

En elephant is bigger than a mouse. What does it say about the elephant or the mouse? Nothing.

Whaaaa?

ez4u · **#22**

entropi wrote:

danielm wrote:

I don't know if this is relevant at all, but curiously on the free chess server, where they record blitz and standard ratings separately, the average blitz rating is several hundred ELO points lower than the average standard rating.

But now it starts getting more confusing... How should one interpret this? People are losing more when they play blitz? But then who is winning

) How can the time setting affect the average rating?
Maybe it is because of the ratio of draws in chess ???

Good question! :tmbup:

@danielm - Is your observation based on hard data covering all players on the server, or is anecdotal, e.g. based on you looking at the player list? Is the differentiation of blitz and standard automated so that all games and players are classified consistently?

danielm · **#23**

ez4u wrote:

entropi wrote:

danielm wrote:

I don't know if this is relevant at all, but curiously on the free chess server, where they record blitz and standard ratings separately, the average blitz rating is several hundred ELO points lower than the average standard rating.

But now it starts getting more confusing... How should one interpret this? People are losing more when they play blitz? But then who is winning

) How can the time setting affect the average rating?
Maybe it is because of the ratio of draws in chess ???

Good question! :tmbup:

@danielm - Is your observation based on hard data covering all players on the server, or is anecdotal, e.g. based on you looking at the player list? Is the differentiation of blitz and standard automated so that all games and players are classified consistently?

Yes, it's automated. FICS shows the average ratings for each category, so it's not anecdotal. It probably has something to do with a lot more blitz games being played, so any deflation effect would be more pronounced. Still I always found it odd how some people could maintain a blitz rating about as high as their standard rating.

Joaz Banbeck · **#24**

entropi wrote:

What does it mean if slow accounts rank is much higher (>3 stones) than the fast accounts rank?

He is old.

entropi wrote:

What does it mean if fast accounts rank is much higher (>3 stones) than the slow accounts rank?

He is young.

entropi · **#25**

Joaz Banbeck wrote:

entropi wrote:

What does it mean if slow accounts rank is much higher (>3 stones) than the fast accounts rank?

He is old.

bitter truth

Psychee · **#26**

entropi wrote:

Joaz Banbeck wrote:

entropi wrote:

What does it mean if slow accounts rank is much higher (>3 stones) than the fast accounts rank?

He is old.

bitter truth

no...

ez4u · **#27**

danielm wrote:

ez4u wrote:

@danielm - Is your observation based on hard data covering all players on the server, or is anecdotal, e.g. based on you looking at the player list? Is the differentiation of blitz and standard automated so that all games and players are classified consistently?

Yes, it's automated. FICS shows the average ratings for each category, so it's not anecdotal. It probably has something to do with a lot more blitz games being played, so any deflation effect would be more pronounced. Still I always found it odd how some people could maintain a blitz rating about as high as their standard rating.

This is the output of the "statistics" command just a little while ago. We can see that the situation is not so clearcut. Yes the average Blitz rating is lower than the average Standard rating for humans (hmean), but it is higher for computers (cmean). In addition, the average Lightning rating (sort of super Blitz) is higher than the Standard rating for both humans and computers (let's not get started on Wild and Bughouse

). So I have a feeling that the FICS rating systems are not going to provide us too much fuel for a reasoned discussion. :study:

Server rating statistics:

mean sd hmean hsd cmean csd
Blitz 1389.02 275.14 1385.53 268.47 2248.04 474.92
Standard 1571.39 228.46 1566.20 218.44 2166.70 456.32
Lightning 1637.53 277.01 1623.07 251.04 2339.15 489.20
Wild 1909.60 219.03 1895.15 199.35 2271.00 343.44
Bughouse 1829.64 347.72 1829.64 347.72 0.00 0.00
Crazyhouse 1802.21 297.16 1801.92 297.37 1951.00 0.00
Suicide 1864.63 238.50 1846.95 218.32 2235.83 325.68
Losers 1904.84 186.47 1904.84 186.47 0.00 0.00
Atomic 1933.98 293.90 1933.98 293.90 0.00 0.00

PS - Sorry, this is just a cut and paste. I am in a hurry at the moment and do not know how to format this well!

Joaz Banbeck · **#28**

ez4u almost wrote:

...

Server rating statistics:

Code:

              mean     sd      hmean     hsd     cmean     csd
Blitz       1389.02  275.14   1385.53  268.47   2248.04  474.92
Standard    1571.39  228.46   1566.20  218.44   2166.70  456.32
Lightning   1637.53  277.01   1623.07  251.04   2339.15  489.20
Wild        1909.60  219.03   1895.15  199.35   2271.00  343.44
Bughouse    1829.64  347.72   1829.64  347.72      0.00    0.00
Crazyhouse  1802.21  297.16   1801.92  297.37   1951.00    0.00
Suicide     1864.63  238.50   1846.95  218.32   2235.83  325.68
Losers      1904.84  186.47   1904.84  186.47      0.00    0.00
Atomic      1933.98  293.90   1933.98  293.90      0.00    0.00

ez4u · **#29**

@Joaz - Thanks! I'll (try to) remember that. :tmbup:

danielm · **#30**

ez4u wrote:

danielm wrote:

ez4u wrote:

@danielm - Is your observation based on hard data covering all players on the server, or is anecdotal, e.g. based on you looking at the player list? Is the differentiation of blitz and standard automated so that all games and players are classified consistently?

Yes, it's automated. FICS shows the average ratings for each category, so it's not anecdotal. It probably has something to do with a lot more blitz games being played, so any deflation effect would be more pronounced. Still I always found it odd how some people could maintain a blitz rating about as high as their standard rating.

This is the output of the "statistics" command just a little while ago. We can see that the situation is not so clearcut. Yes the average Blitz rating is lower than the average Standard rating for humans (hmean), but it is higher for computers (cmean). In addition, the average Lightning rating (sort of super Blitz) is higher than the Standard rating for both humans and computers (let's not get started on Wild and Bughouse

). So I have a feeling that the FICS rating systems are not going to provide us too much fuel for a reasoned discussion. :study:

Server rating statistics:

Code:

              mean     sd      hmean     hsd     cmean     csd
Blitz       1389.02  275.14   1385.53  268.47   2248.04  474.92
Standard    1571.39  228.46   1566.20  218.44   2166.70  456.32
Lightning   1637.53  277.01   1623.07  251.04   2339.15  489.20
Wild        1909.60  219.03   1895.15  199.35   2271.00  343.44
Bughouse    1829.64  347.72   1829.64  347.72      0.00    0.00
Crazyhouse  1802.21  297.16   1801.92  297.37   1951.00    0.00
Suicide     1864.63  238.50   1846.95  218.32   2235.83  325.68
Losers      1904.84  186.47   1904.84  186.47      0.00    0.00
Atomic      1933.98  293.90   1933.98  293.90      0.00    0.00

PS - Sorry, this is just a cut and paste. I am in a hurry at the moment and do not know how to format this well!

Yes, it seems that the more popular a section, the lower the ratings are, so perhaps it's really just deflation which becomes more pronounced the more games are played (though I'm not entirely sure if standard is more popular than lightning).

That computers score higher in blitz is completely expected though, as that is their specialty (like 9x9 for Go engines). Still it's odd that there is an even jump of 100 points from lightning to standard for computers, if the blitz section is really so severely deflated.

Difference between fast and slow games

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