8/24/11 12pm(Korea time).



Group A: Kim Jiseok, Song Ronghui, Guo Wenchao, Kang Dongyun

Group B: Park Junghwan, Li Zhe, Piao Wenyao, Chen Yaoe

Group C: Lee Changho, Jiang Zhujiu, Sun Li, Tan Xiao

Group D: Park Younghun, Na Hyun, Sakai Hideyuki, Kim Dongho

Group E: Lee SeDol, Jeon Youngkyu, Kim Junghyun, Baek Sungho

Group F: Heo Youngho, Lee Youngku, Gu Li, Park Jieun

Group G: Won Sungjin, Li Xuanhao, Yuki Satoshi, Wang Tao

Group H: Choe Chulhan, Peng Liyao, Kong Jie, Kang Sungmin

How are the Japanese seeds chosen?

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Occupy Babel!

Tengen and Gosei perhaps?

Fits this year, but in 2010, the seeds were Yamashita Keigo and Hane Naoki. In 2009, they were Yuki, Hane and Yamashita.

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Occupy Babel!

Has it really escaped attention that this is the first (I think) international tournament with no Nihon Ki-in representation? Yuki and Sakai are both from the Kansai Ki-in.

Those with smart phones and iPhones can apparently get to watch the early round games from China via Cyberoro/Yahoo. This seems to be a novelty at this level.

Is that a coincedence, or is Nihon Ki-in choosing not to participate? If it's a choice, do you know why?

Saw it, didn't know whether or not it was the first, didn't know why it was only Kansai players.

So how did we end up with just two Kansai players?

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Occupy Babel!

And then people say Japan is so weak because they can't win an international tournament Good luck winning anything when you've got 2 chances out of 32.

Is there really any difference nowadays between the Nihon/Kansai Ki-in? Why don't they just merge?

Why wasn't Iyama seeded? It's mind-boggling considering his recent form. He should be participating in as many competitions as he can.

Well, the Meijin finals are in September, Iyama Yuta vs. Yamashita Keigo. Maybe he just preferred to stay home and prepare to defend his domestic title?

One thing to note: according to Mr Kin's, there were some Japanese players who tried to break through the preliminary tournament, but none made it. It looks like the closest was Murakawa Daisuke(7d), who was eliminated in the last preliminary round. It seems like a tough preliminary: Qiu Jun and Lee Changho were also among the eliminated.

To clear up some confusion among discussion;

In Samsung Cup preliminary tournament, there were 28 players from Japan participating. And only 2 players passed and joined main tournament.

According to this - http://igokisen.web.fc2.com/wr/sc.html there were Japanese players in the preliminaries, but none actually progressed to the final tournament. Yuki Satoshi and Sakai Hideyuki were chosen at-large.

Sakai Hideyuki won over Kim Dongho by resign.
Lee SeDol defeated Jeon Youngkyu by resign.
Wang Tao defeated Yuki Satoshi by resign.
Kong Jie won over Kang Sungmin by resign.
Kim Junghyun defeated Baek Sungho by resign.
Lee Youngku defated Heo Youngho by resign.
Park younghun defeated Na Hyun by resign.
Won Sungjin won over Li Xuanhao by resign.
Tan Xiao defeated Sun Li by resign.
Li Zhe defeated Park Junghwan by resign.
Kim Jiseok defeated Song Ronghui by resign.
Piao Wenyao defeated Chen Yaoe by resign.
Gu Li defeated Park Jieun by resign.
Lee Changho defeated Jiang Zhujiu by resign.
Peng Liyao defeated Choe Chulhan by resign.
Kang Dongyun won over Guo Wenchao by 0.5.

All games are decided by resign except the last game.

The format of this tournament has been changed.

In A group, there are 4 players a, b, c, d.

a. a vs b and c vs d.
b. winner of both game plays each other and winner of this game advances to next round.
c. winner of loser game plays against loser of winner game and winner of this game advances to next round.

I am not sure if the Samsung follows the same format, but for many tournaments, the number of seeds is based on past performance. So the underrepresentation is not exactly unfair. It would still have the bad effect of making results "sticky"--if your strength is equal, but you only had two representatives because of past performance, it would take a long time for things to rebalance themselves.

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Occupy Babel!

Where is Qiu Jun?

Home. Drinking a beer and thinking of you

P.S. He lost to Wang Tao in the preliminaries

Far from clarifying, it seems confusing: there were >60 players from china and >110 from Korea. While I can imagine top Japanese players focusing on the more remunerative national title games, I cannot understand why other players would choose not to participate...

(and, as noted above, only seeds are participating from Japan: japanese preliminaries were totally unsuccessful)



This would explain it.

Actually, even if the japanese representative were the same level of other countries they would have less probability of winning. So they can only raise their participation ratio if they become much stronger than other countries, unless the "performance" is evaluated against the expectation (unlikely). If every game has a 50% probability of going either way the chance of a japanese passing the preliminaries was likely around 50% as well (did not do the exact calculation only an estimate). The chance of a top three is negligible. And I did not see any current or past top title holder in the preliminaries apart from O Rissei.

If Japanese tournaments pay better than their Korean and Chinese counterparts, it's a higher opportunity cost to compete in preliminaries.

And if you're at a competitive disadvantage, your chance of making money is even smaller.

Several long technical digressions could happen here. I was simplifying, but actually I also think that what I said is technically true if you think about distributions of strength, rather than just "how strong the Japanese are".

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Occupy Babel!

I agree and suspect we would have the same opinion on any specific example, but this is becoming offtopic and to have a meaningful discussion we should know the exact rules used to assign places.

From GoGameWorld:
"Samsung Cup is well known for flexible rules, the unique feature is its preliminary tournament, all world professional players even amateur players can participate"

From GoGoD:
"The most distinctive feature of this international event is the preliminary stage, as even overseas pros are obliged to visit Korea and pay their own expenses. Not only has this not put off top players, it has allowed many lower ranked players to acquire some international experience"