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 Post subject: Guess-the-next-move!
Post #1 Posted: Fri Oct 07, 2011 3:28 am 
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After the great success of dfan's Prokovich game of 2010 (viewtopic.php?f=15&t=1443), I'd like to do another "Guess-the-next-move" thread! So I'll just start one :)

The way it works is: every day I'll post about one or two moves of a professional game, and everyone can suggest variations, speculate on the players, and discuss the meaning of previous moves. If you want me to speed up or slow down, let me know!

I picked a game for which I have a very good commentary available, so that I can occasionally drop in a few professional comments when appropriate. To keep it interesting for myself, I did not study the game in depth yet - I only quickly clicked through it to verify whether the fighting is not too ridiculously complicated for amateurs like us. This means that I myself do not know the next moves, so I'll join in the guessing game as well. Oh, I will not tell you who the players are or when the game was played...

This is an even game with komi. I'll kickstart the thread with moves 1 to 4. What are the implications? Do you like this opening? Where would you move next?

Click Here To Show Diagram Code
[go]$$c Moves 1-4
$$ ---------------------------------------
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
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$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . 1 . . . . |
$$ | . . . , . . . . . , . . . . . , 4 . . |
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$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ ---------------------------------------[/go]

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 Post subject: Re: Guess-the-next-move!
Post #2 Posted: Fri Oct 07, 2011 3:44 am 
Oza
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Wow, I entirely missed the prokovitch thread. :o Looks like a great idea. Here are my first thoughts:

Click Here To Show Diagram Code
[go]$$c
$$ ---------------------------------------
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . 1 . . . . |
$$ | . . . b . . . . . , . . . . . , 4 . . |
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$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ ---------------------------------------[/go]

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 Post subject: Re: Guess-the-next-move!
Post #3 Posted: Fri Oct 07, 2011 4:15 am 
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gaius wrote:
This is an even game with komi. I'll kickstart the thread with moves 1 to 4. What are the implications? Do you like this opening? Where would you move next?

I think I'd place :b5: at one of the circled points. :b1: seems like it puts some emphasis on the top side and the open corner is also an obvious focus. The top right corner can afford to wait for at least one move.
Click Here To Show Diagram Code
[go]$$c Moves 1-4
$$ ---------------------------------------
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . B . . . . . 1 . . . . |
$$ | . . B , . . . . . , . . . . . , 4 . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
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$$ | . . . 2 . . . . . , . . . . . 3 . . . |
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$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ ---------------------------------------[/go]

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 Post subject: Re: Guess-the-next-move!
Post #4 Posted: Fri Oct 07, 2011 7:29 am 
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Trouble is, Kombilo finds the game so easily in the GoGoD database.

Best wishes.

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 Post subject: Re: Guess-the-next-move!
Post #5 Posted: Fri Oct 07, 2011 7:33 am 
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^ Sure, but wouldn't that kind of spoil your own fun?

So, just for clarity: if you participate you're not supposed to look up the game in a database!

That shouldn't be harder than not viewing hiddens in a Malkovich game, should it?

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 Post subject: Re: Guess-the-next-move!
Post #6 Posted: Fri Oct 07, 2011 8:34 am 
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Wow, I would never play 4.

I guess taisha won't be next on account of your comment about fighting.

If I'm black, I'll take the corner or maybe Q15.

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 Post subject: Re: Guess-the-next-move!
Post #7 Posted: Fri Oct 07, 2011 9:29 am 
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Click Here To Show Diagram Code
[go]$$c Moves 1-4
$$ ---------------------------------------
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . 1 . . . . |
$$ | . . 5 , . . . . . , . . . . . , 4 . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
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$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . . 2 . . . . . , . . . . . 3 . . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ ---------------------------------------[/go]


It's like:
Click Here To Show Diagram Code
[go]$$c Moves 1-4
$$ ---------------------------------------
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . 5 . . . . |
$$ | . . 1 , . . . . . , . . . . . , 4 . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
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$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . . 2 . . . . . , . . . . . 3 . . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ ---------------------------------------[/go]

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 Post subject: Re: Guess-the-next-move!
Post #8 Posted: Fri Oct 07, 2011 9:47 am 
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Yup. Top left corner for me too. Might as well do 4-4 just to keep the flexibility up.


Bruce "Go sit in the..." Young

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 Post subject: Re: Guess-the-next-move!
Post #9 Posted: Fri Oct 07, 2011 10:12 am 
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Click Here To Show Diagram Code
[go]$$Bc
$$ ---------------------------------------
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . 1 . . . . |
$$ | . . 5 , . . . . . , . . . . . , 4 . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
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$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . . 2 . . . . . , . . . . . 3 . . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ ---------------------------------------[/go]


:b5: is my first choice. I have in effect gotten the first play on the top side in a mukai komoku situation ( :w4: vs. :b5:, Black plays :b1:).


Edit: Only typographical editing. :)

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Last edited by Bill Spight on Mon Oct 10, 2011 10:00 am, edited 4 times in total.
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 Post subject: Re: Guess-the-next-move!
Post #10 Posted: Fri Oct 07, 2011 10:56 am 
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i would just smash there the star point in the remaining empty corner. it makes pretty standard position, so can't be really bad

i posted my move because i wanted to join, but i think 4 moves are too few for a move to be significantly better / worse than many alternatives, so personally i would prefer to jump some moves forward so we could make more definite comments

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 Post subject: Re: Guess-the-next-move!
Post #11 Posted: Fri Oct 07, 2011 11:50 am 
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Laman wrote:
i would just smash there the star point in the remaining empty corner. it makes pretty standard position, so can't be really bad

i posted my move because i wanted to join, but i think 4 moves are too few for a move to be significantly better / worse than many alternatives, so personally i would prefer to jump some moves forward so we could make more definite comments

Takeo Kajiwara, author of The Direction of Play, would be screaming his lungs out at you :D .

Anyway, my move would have been the 4-4 in the top-left, but after having read Araban's and Bill's posts, I think I like their ideas slightly more than mine.

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 Post subject: Re: Guess-the-next-move!
Post #12 Posted: Fri Oct 07, 2011 12:10 pm 
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Dusk Eagle wrote:
Takeo Kajiwara, author of The Direction of Play, would be screaming his lungs out at you :D .

Anyway, my move would have been the 4-4 in the top-left, but after having read Araban's and Bill's posts, I think I like their ideas slightly more than mine.

not that i wouldn't care about opening. but 4 moves, come on :D
i agree about the 3-4 somewhat better. i was unreasonably worried that white could aggressively respond with immediate kakari. but black would then get important moves on the upper side first (he could choose preferable direction of play), so no troubles

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 Post subject: Re: Guess-the-next-move!
Post #13 Posted: Fri Oct 07, 2011 12:26 pm 
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Laman wrote:
Dusk Eagle wrote:
Takeo Kajiwara, author of The Direction of Play, would be screaming his lungs out at you :D .

not that i wouldn't care about opening. but 4 moves, come on :D

"Chapter 3: Move 2 Lost the Game." :)

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 Post subject: Re: Guess-the-next-move!
Post #14 Posted: Mon Oct 10, 2011 3:55 am 
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Laman, you get your will: two moves in one post! Surely, this position is becoming interesting.

Kudos to Daal for being the only one to have :b5:.

(negative kudos to myself for being late with posting the very first update...)
Click Here To Show Diagram Code
[go]$$c Moves 5-6
$$ ---------------------------------------
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . 6 . . . X . . . . |
$$ | . . . 5 . . . . . , . . . . . , O . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
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$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . . O . . . . . , . . . . . X . . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ ---------------------------------------[/go]

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 Post subject: Re: Guess-the-next-move!
Post #15 Posted: Mon Oct 10, 2011 5:07 am 
Tengen
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Click Here To Show Diagram Code
[go]$$c Moves 5-6
$$ ---------------------------------------
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . 6 . . . X . . . . |
$$ | . . . 5 . . . . . , . . . . . , O . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . 7 . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . . , . . . . . , . . . . . , . . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . . O . . . . . , . . . . . X . . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ ---------------------------------------[/go]

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Post #16 Posted: Mon Oct 10, 2011 6:23 am 
Tengen

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topazg wrote:
...
Addict! But do keep posting.

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Post #17 Posted: Mon Oct 10, 2011 6:40 am 
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hyperpape wrote:
topazg wrote:
...
Addict! But do keep posting.


I know, I'm feeling guilty already :(

If only y'all weren't such addictive people to hang around with!

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Post #18 Posted: Mon Oct 10, 2011 7:35 am 
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Click Here To Show Diagram Code
[go]$$c My move 7
$$ ---------------------------------------
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . 7 . . O . . . X . . . . |
$$ | . . . X . . . . . , . . . . . , O . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . . , . . . . . , . . . . . , . . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . . O . . . . . , . . . . . X . . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ ---------------------------------------[/go]

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Post #19 Posted: Mon Oct 10, 2011 8:27 am 
Gosei
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P14.

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Post #20 Posted: Mon Oct 10, 2011 9:14 am 
Gosei

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