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 Post subject: strange moves
Post #1 Posted: Tue Nov 22, 2011 6:09 am 
Lives in gote

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Click Here To Show Diagram Code
[go]$$Bc
$$ ------------------
$$ . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ . . . . . . . . 4 . . |
$$ . . . . . . 3 1 . . . |
$$ . . . . . . 2 . . . . |
$$ . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ . . . . . . . . . . . |[/go]



These are the very first moves of a game played by a shodan player (white) against me (black). What do you think of this opening? Is it just nonsense or does it have a meaning to play :w4: after :w2: ?

If it has a meaning, which fundamental principle of go would explain it?

A position search in senseis revealed no results.

:b3: is just first instinct, but is it wrong?

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 Post subject: Re: strange moves
Post #2 Posted: Tue Nov 22, 2011 6:21 am 
Judan
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Black 3 is a fine move. I'd say that you are playing well and that he is playing very badly. If you continue with 5 like this you have him split.

Click Here To Show Diagram Code
[go]$$Bc
$$ ------------------
$$ . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ . . . . . . . . 4 . . |
$$ . . . . . . 3 1 5 . . |
$$ . . . . . . 2 . . . . |
$$ . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ . . . . . . . . . . . |[/go]


Now maybe there is some hamate that I do not see, but I call this a huge local advantage for black.

EDIT: It is so contrary to the principles of good play that I'd suspect that it was a mis-click, but he was to proud to ask for an undo.

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 Post subject: Re: strange moves
Post #3 Posted: Tue Nov 22, 2011 6:31 am 
Gosei
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It's probably just to confuse you. If you play Joaz's :b5:, you can think of it as at worse a 3-3 invasion, but with white having stupidly exchanged :w2: for :b3: first. There's no way that makes much sense for him.

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 Post subject: Re: strange moves
Post #4 Posted: Tue Nov 22, 2011 8:12 am 
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Thanks for the replies. I also guessed it was just to confuse me, but may be there is a kind of trick involved somewhere.

After Joaz's :b5:, I guess he has to live in the corner immediately. Normally 3-3 invasions end up with invaders sente, but in this case I would probably even keep sente due to :b3: (???)

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 Post subject: Re: strange moves
Post #5 Posted: Tue Nov 22, 2011 9:23 am 
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entropi wrote:
Normally 3-3 invasions end up with invaders sente, but in this case I would probably even keep sente due to :b3: (???)


That's of course if he manages to live at all...

I guess the expected "best case" continuation would be a completely shut in group of 2 or 3 points in gote for white, and thickness in all directions in sente for black. Worst case would be a ko or even direct death. That is IMHO bad enough to seriously consider *not* trying to live with :w4: (but then again, I wouldn't have played it in the first place :P)

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 Post subject: Re: strange moves
Post #6 Posted: Tue Nov 22, 2011 9:42 am 
Gosei
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2: "I'll just play something fun here/I want outside influence/Let's see what he does/I'm asleep/There's not enough handicap/Let's keep the game close/etc"

4: "Oh, that corner looks kinda big. I should invade now, one move before it becomes territory."

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 Post subject: Re: strange moves
Post #7 Posted: Tue Nov 22, 2011 9:59 am 
Honinbo

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entropi wrote:
Click Here To Show Diagram Code
[go]$$Bc
$$ ------------------
$$ . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ . . . . . . . . 4 . . |
$$ . . . . . . 3 1 . . . |
$$ . . . . . . 2 . . . . |
$$ . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ . . . . . . . . . . . |[/go]



These are the very first moves of a game played by a shodan player (white) against me (black). What do you think of this opening? Is it just nonsense or does it have a meaning to play :w4: after :w2: ?

If it has a meaning, which fundamental principle of go would explain it?

A position search in senseis revealed no results.

:b3: is just first instinct, but is it wrong?


It is nonsense. ;)

:b3: is good. Joaz's suggestion for :b5: is fine. :)

Wait till Ed Lee sees this! :mrgreen:

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 Post subject: Re: strange moves
Post #8 Posted: Tue Nov 22, 2011 11:19 am 
Gosei

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Doesn't look good for W ... but, perhaps if he's trying to play tricky and trip you up, he should have tried something slightly different:

Click Here To Show Diagram Code
[go]$$Bc
$$ ------------------
$$ . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ . . . . . . 3 1 . 4 . |
$$ . . . . . . 2 . . . . |
$$ . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ . . . . . . . . . . . |[/go]


This is more interesting, but I still wouldn't play this as W, I don't think ...

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