It is currently Sat May 03, 2025 8:19 am

All times are UTC - 8 hours [ DST ]




Post new topic Reply to topic  [ 6 posts ] 
Author Message
Offline
 Post subject: tsumego from KGS
Post #1 Posted: Thu Nov 24, 2011 10:17 am 
Lives in sente
User avatar

Posts: 801
Location: Amsterdam (NL)
Liked others: 353
Was liked: 107
Rank: KGS 7 kyu forever
GD Posts: 460
Today I watched an exiciting game on KGS between twoeye(7d) and iKGS5dan(6d, black), the sixth one in a series.
The position after b213 is. The question is who wins in the upper right corner.
Click Here To Show Diagram Code
[go]$$Bc
$$ +---------------------------------------+
$$ | . . X . . . . . . . O X . b a B . . . |
$$ | . X . X O . . . O O X . O O X O . . . |
$$ | . . X O O . . O O X X X . . X O . . . |
$$ | . . X X O . . O X O O X X X X O . . . |
$$ | . . . . . . X O X O O O O . X O O . . |
$$ | . . X X . . O X X X O O X X X X O . . |
$$ | . X O X . X X O X X X O O O O X X . . |
$$ | X O O . X O . O O O X X . . . O X . . |
$$ | . X . O X X . O X X . X O O O . O . . |
$$ | X . X O O O O O X , X . X X O , O . . |
$$ | . X O O . O X O O X . . . X X O O X . |
$$ | . X X X X O X . O . . X X O X X O . . |
$$ | . . X O O X X . . O . X O O X O O . . |
$$ | . . . O X X . X X . O O . O O X X X . |
$$ | . . O . O X X O . X X O O . . . . X . |
$$ | . O O , O X . O X O O O . O O O O X . |
$$ | . O X X X O X X X . . X O X . X X O . |
$$ | . X . O O O O O X . . O X X . . X O . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ +---------------------------------------+[/go]
Next W exchanged a for b and then the game proceeded as follows
Click Here To Show Diagram Code
[go]$$Bc
$$ ----------------------+
$$ . . O X . 1 . X 9 . . |
$$ O O X . O O X O . 2 . |
$$ O X X X . . X O . . . |
$$ X O O X X X X O . . . |
$$ X O O O O . X O O . . |
$$ X X O O X X X X O 5 . |
$$ X X X O O O O X X 7 . |
$$ O O X X . . . O X 6 . |
$$ X X . X O O O . O 3 8 |
$$ X , X . X X O , O 4 . |
$$ O X . . . X X O O X . |
$$ O . . X X O X X O . . |[/go]
Soon W lost the semeai and the game. I think the initial exchange is the losing move. See the hidden part.
Without the exchange:
Click Here To Show Diagram Code
[go]$$Bc
$$ ----------------------+
$$ . . O X . . c X 1 2 . |
$$ O O X . O O X O 6 O . |
$$ O X X X . . X O . a b |
$$ X O O X X X X O . 4 . |
$$ X O O O O . X O O 3 5 |
$$ X X O O X X X X O X . |
$$ X X X O O O O X X X d |
$$ O O X X . . . O X O . |
$$ X X . X O O O . O . O |
$$ X , X . X X O , O O . |
$$ O X . . . X X O O X . |
$$ O . . X X O X X O . . |[/go]
White has miai a and b for two eyes and miai c and d against two eyes if he had omitted the initial exchange
Correct?
edit: corrected a typo


Last edited by cyclops on Fri Nov 25, 2011 5:55 am, edited 2 times in total.
Top
 Profile  
 
Offline
 Post subject: Re: tsumego from KGS
Post #2 Posted: Thu Nov 24, 2011 8:58 pm 
Dies in gote

Posts: 32
Liked others: 10
Was liked: 1
Rank: KGS 1 dan
KGS: AVAVT
cyclops wrote:
Without the exchange:
Click Here To Show Diagram Code
[go]$$Bc
$$ ----------------------+
$$ . . O X . . c X 1 2 . |
$$ O O X . O O X O 6 O . |
$$ O X X X . . X O . a b |
$$ X O O X X X X O . 4 . |
$$ X O O O O . X O O 3 5 |
$$ X X O O X X X X O X . |
$$ X X X O O O O X X X d |
$$ O O X X . . . O X O . |
$$ X X . X O O O . O . O |
$$ X , X . X X O , O O . |
$$ O X . . . X X O O X . |
$$ O . . X X O X X O . . |[/go]
White has miai a and b for two eyes and miai c and d against two eyes if he had omitted the initial exchange
Correct?


Quite interesting :lol:
I'm at work right now can't really read this till the end but what say you against this?

Without the exchange:
Click Here To Show Diagram Code
[go]$$Bc
$$ ----------------------+
$$ . . O X . . . X 1 2 . |
$$ O O X . O O X O . O . |
$$ O X X X . . X O . . . |
$$ X O O X X X X O . 3 . |
$$ X O O O O . X O O . . |
$$ X X O O X X X X O X . |
$$ X X X O O O O X X X . |
$$ O O X X . . . O X O . |
$$ X X . X O O O . O . O |
$$ X , X . X X O , O O . |
$$ O X . . . X X O O X . |
$$ O . . X X O X X O . . |[/go]

Quick glance I think b still win.

_________________
Image The similarity between Go and computing is the seemingly infinite number of possibilities.

Top
 Profile  
 
Offline
 Post subject: Re: tsumego from KGS
Post #3 Posted: Fri Nov 25, 2011 6:01 am 
Lives in sente
User avatar

Posts: 801
Location: Amsterdam (NL)
Liked others: 353
Was liked: 107
Rank: KGS 7 kyu forever
GD Posts: 460
AVAVT wrote:
Quick glance I think b still win.


Your quick glance is probably worth more than my extensive glance. But it seems your refutation is correct.
So the verdict is that black lives after his initial hane at move 213 and has a won game.

Top
 Profile  
 
Offline
 Post subject: Re: tsumego from KGS
Post #4 Posted: Fri Nov 25, 2011 6:35 am 
Oza
User avatar

Posts: 2414
Location: Tokyo, Japan
Liked others: 2350
Was liked: 1332
Rank: Jp 6 dan
KGS: ez4u
cyclops wrote:
AVAVT wrote:
Quick glance I think b still win.


Your quick glance is probably worth more than my extensive glance. But it seems your refutation is correct.
So the verdict is that black lives after his initial hane at move 213 and has a won game.

Maybe not. If White starts on the other side with the hane of :w2:, can Black kill White without a ko? Something like the below looks complex. What is the correct outcome in the corner? Also, if both sides live, who wins the game?
Click Here To Show Diagram Code
[go]$$Bc
$$ ----------------------+
$$ . . O X . 1 . X . 9 . |
$$ O O X . O O X O 5 6 . |
$$ O X X X . . X O 7 8 . |
$$ X O O X X X X O . . . |
$$ X O O O O . X O O . 0 |
$$ X X O O X X X X O 4 . |
$$ X X X O O O O X X 2 . |
$$ O O X X . . . O X 3 . |
$$ X X . X O O O . O . . |
$$ X , X . X X O , O . . |
$$ O X . . . X X O O X . |
$$ O . . X X O X X O . . |[/go]

_________________
Dave Sigaty
"Short-lived are both the praiser and the praised, and rememberer and the remembered..."
- Marcus Aurelius; Meditations, VIII 21


This post by ez4u was liked by: cyclops
Top
 Profile  
 
Offline
 Post subject: Re: tsumego from KGS
Post #5 Posted: Fri Nov 25, 2011 7:10 am 
Gosei
User avatar

Posts: 2011
Location: Groningen, NL
Liked others: 202
Was liked: 1087
Rank: Dutch 4D
GD Posts: 645
Universal go server handle: herminator
Why throw in at all? Why not block at R19?

Top
 Profile  
 
Offline
 Post subject: Re: tsumego from KGS
Post #6 Posted: Fri Nov 25, 2011 3:04 pm 
Lives in sente
User avatar

Posts: 801
Location: Amsterdam (NL)
Liked others: 353
Was liked: 107
Rank: KGS 7 kyu forever
GD Posts: 460
Go is so easy. Just block as Herman proposes and Black is finished, isn't he?
Click Here To Show Diagram Code
[go]$$Wc
$$ ----------------------+
$$ . . O X . . . X 1 . . |
$$ O O X . O O X O . . . |
$$ O X X X . . X O . . . |
$$ X O O X X X X O . . . |
$$ X O O O O . X O O . . |
$$ X X O O X X X X O 4 . |
$$ X X X O O O O X X 6 . |
$$ O O X X . . . O X 5 . |
$$ X X . X O O O . O 2 7 |
$$ X , X . X X O , O 3 . |
$$ O X . . . X X O O X . |
$$ O . . X X O X X O . . |[/go]

B can choose between two evils i.c. one eye versus two eyes or no eye versus one eye

Some gossips about iKGS5dan(6d, black). He appeared some 3 days ago on kgs and played about 80 games since then. He favours to start as black with two 6-4 moves and a move in the center. Rumours are that he changes his nick as soon as his bad habits gets known. Such as. Unprepared dans he tries to play with too high unfavourable handicaps. If his opponent claims a misclick we get:

iKgs5Dan [7d]: no undo when 3s/move
yakito [1k]: :D

iKgs5Dan [6d]: no undo
MrHyphen [5k]: lolz

Often he claims a misclick and gets away with it. If the opponent refuses he escapes.

hellabryan [?]: if it's a misclick w wouldnt undo then he just got a taste of his own medicine from a few games ago

Top
 Profile  
 
Display posts from previous:  Sort by  
Post new topic Reply to topic  [ 6 posts ] 

All times are UTC - 8 hours [ DST ]


Who is online

Users browsing this forum: No registered users and 1 guest


You cannot post new topics in this forum
You cannot reply to topics in this forum
You cannot edit your posts in this forum
You cannot delete your posts in this forum
You cannot post attachments in this forum

Search for:
Jump to:  
Powered by phpBB © 2000, 2002, 2005, 2007 phpBB Group