The Greed Factor

quantumf · **#21**

daniel_the_smith wrote:

Last night in a game I counted. I could protect my side territory and let him live and win by 10-15 points. Or I could try and kill. Trying to kill would be a bad idea, I knew, because I couldn't read it out all the way and I didn't need a kill.

So of course, I did the sensible thing and tried to kill.

This happens in lots of my games and I can't understand why I keep playing moves I *know* are wrong.

I lost that game horribly; my side territory died and took another group with it.

You don't make a living from go, you didn't "have" to win the game. So long as you actually pushed your reading to the limit, and didn't just slap down some intuitive shape moves, you probably learnt more from the game than you would have by playing safe.

daniel_the_smith · **#22**

Suji wrote:

I wouldn't say that when you failed to kill your opponent's stones, you played incorrectly at that crossroads. Much more likely is that your mistake came after that point. After all, we all have our own individual styles and we play the moves that fit our style more than the moves that don't.

I'm pretty sure that what I was attempting was impossible. I was giving four stones, if that's any excuse. :-?

daniel_the_smith · **#23**

quantumf wrote:

You don't make a living from go, you didn't "have" to win the game. So long as you actually pushed your reading to the limit, and didn't just slap down some intuitive shape moves, you probably learnt more from the game than you would have by playing safe.

Yeah, a few moves later I was able to read it out completely and found that it didn't work for me at all...

Hagios · **#24**

I have this problem especially when I'm involved in a fight between two moyo openings. I'm trying to learn to consolidate my cash, make thickness, and use THAT to fight, rather than my habit of jumping right in. Overall, I need to learn to keep pressure on my opponent, rather than all out fighting or peaceful consolidation but nothing between.

To quote the advice that Kasparov got regarding his games against Karpov, "Squeeze his balls–but not too hard. Just squeeze one ball."

Suji · **#25**

daniel_the_smith wrote:

Suji wrote:

I wouldn't say that when you failed to kill your opponent's stones, you played incorrectly at that crossroads. Much more likely is that your mistake came after that point. After all, we all have our own individual styles and we play the moves that fit our style more than the moves that don't.

I'm pretty sure that what I was attempting was impossible. I was giving four stones, if that's any excuse. :-?

Sometimes we just have to do this to learn something. Granted, I've read something in relation to chess that probably applies to go as well which states,

“Without error there can be no brilliancy” --Emmanuel Lasker. (Lasker was the second world chess champion.)

So, maybe, your most brilliant game ever is coming up?

daniel_the_smith · **#26**

If that's the case, then I must be a freaking go genius!! :lol:

Phelan · **#27**

Hagios wrote:

To quote the advice that Kasparov got regarding his games against Karpov, "Squeeze his balls–but not too hard. Just squeeze one ball."

I love the quote.

Magicwand · **#28**

to : daniel_the_smith
i think it helps you see how stronger players plays go.
strong players are good at reading, counting, and choosing a sure way to win.
if you see my second game against Kerby i made a decision to kill my stones and win by little.
although i think i can kill them i was not 100% sure. if i fail to kill and kill my stones then i might lose.
but i am 99% sure that if i use my stones to seal the middle i am going to be ahead comfortably.
its all about deciding which way is a sure way to win.

i have seen strong 9d played extra stone in the corner to make sure there is no aji left over (he didnt need to play that stone) at the end he won by two point.

that is how strong players secure win.

daniel_the_smith · **#29**

@Magicwand:

Yeah, I was in a similar situation, and I knew it was best to let him live. I do not know why I went ahead and tried to kill. I am going to start asking myself the question, "Would I rather kill a big group, or win the game?" Maybe that will help.

Tryphon · **#30**

Suji wrote:

(Lasker was the second world chess champion.)

And, IIRC, one of the first western go player.

tj86430 · **#31**

Tryphon wrote:

Suji wrote:

(Lasker was the second world chess champion.)

And, IIRC, one of the first western go player.

I was under the impression that it was Edward that first learned Go, and later introduced Emmanuel (his cousin?) to it. All the same, even Emmanuel was probably one of the first western Go players.

Tommie · **#32**

Li Kao wrote:

You can't be as greedy as me. I want more and MORE even when I'm 100 points ahead.
Must crush, kill and destroy.

Recently I had to play a 3k on even in a tournament and won by 82.5 points.
When we sat down to play I didn't know his level, only that he must be weaker than me (expected 2d, 1d).

The thing which astonished me afterwards, was, that I didn't kill a single group for that result!
And I didn't try to do that either.
Several times during the game I thought
'I could play sharper here, but there is a risk involved,
at least it is confusing, more complicated than now.

Every move which has a benefit for me and less for him is going into the right direction.
By small increments the advantage increases and the entropy of the game, resp. chance for swings decreases.

I should be content, that he is forcing me to take & fix teritory on the 4th line,
while sole interest is to make 2 eyes on the sixth line. '

The sole captures were, that I took 4 stones in the center in exchange to let him capture 2 in a ladder.

I must seriously improve my counting,
because I honestly once first considered invading at a time where I was about 15 points ahead (estimated then, probably it was more).
This would have brought him a chance for an attack.
Eventually I just played a safe 2-point extension instead - threatening to invade.

How can I employ these thoughts with success in even games? - Improve estimation and counting.

The Greed Factor

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