It is currently Sun May 18, 2025 5:23 am

All times are UTC - 8 hours [ DST ]




Post new topic Reply to topic  [ 199 posts ]  Go to page Previous  1, 2, 3, 4, 5, 6 ... 10  Next
Author Message
Offline
 Post subject: Re: 154. illuck vs. Celebrir
Post #41 Posted: Fri Jan 27, 2012 11:37 am 
Tengen
User avatar

Posts: 4844
Location: Mechanicsburg, PA
Liked others: 62
Was liked: 505
Rank: Wbaduk 7D
KGS: magicwand
Tygem: magicwand
Wbaduk: rlatkfkd
DGS: magicwand
OGS: magicwand
flOvermind wrote:
I'm not stronger than the players, but:

I think this result would be quite good for white... White gets thickness in sente, and is now free to attack the black stone.

Click Here To Show Diagram Code
[go]$$Wcm1 illluck vs. Celebrir - Diagram 1
$$ ---------------------------------------
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . X X O . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | X . X O O . . O . B . O . X . . X . . |
$$ | . X O , . . . . . , . . O O X , . . . |
$$ | . O O . . . . . . B . . . . X . . . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . O . . . . . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . B . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . . , . . . . . , . . . . . O . . . |
$$ | . . 1 . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . O . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . . O . . . . . , . . . . . , . . . |
$$ | . . . . . X . . . . X . . . . . X . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ ---------------------------------------[/go]


That looks like a good attack. Who knows, perhaps this could even end up as a splitting attack against the stones at the top?

if you attack one stone they will not runaway and play as below.
see how white's thickness disappears and your group gets weaker?
Click Here To Show Diagram Code
[go]$$Wcm1 illluck vs. Celebrir - Diagram 1
$$ ---------------------------------------
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . X X O . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | X . X O O . . O . B . O . X . . X . . |
$$ | . X O , . . . . . , . . O O X , . . . |
$$ | . O O . . . . . . B . . . . X . . . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . O . . . . . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . 2 . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . B . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . . , . . . . . , . . . . . O . . . |
$$ | . . 1 . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . O . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . . O . . . . . , . . . . . , . . . |
$$ | . . . . . X . . . . X . . . . . X . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ ---------------------------------------[/go]

therfore correct attack will be as below.
difference between above and below is BIG
Click Here To Show Diagram Code
[go]$$Wcm1 illluck vs. Celebrir - Diagram 1
$$ ---------------------------------------
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . X X O . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | X . X O O . . O . B . O . X . . X . . |
$$ | . X O , . . . . . , . . O O X , . . . |
$$ | . O O . . . . . . B . . . . X . . . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . O . . . . . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . 1 . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . B . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . . , . . . . . , . . . . . O . . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . O . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . . O . . . . . , . . . . . , . . . |
$$ | . . . . . X . . . . X . . . . . X . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ ---------------------------------------[/go]

_________________
"The more we think we know about
The greater the unknown"

Words by neil peart, music by geddy lee and alex lifeson


This post by Magicwand was liked by 3 people: flOvermind, hyperpape, illluck
Top
 Profile  
 
Offline
 Post subject: Re: 154. illuck vs. Celebrir
Post #42 Posted: Sat Jan 28, 2012 3:45 am 
Lives in gote
User avatar

Posts: 353
Liked others: 36
Was liked: 14
Rank: German 1k
KGS: 1.Dan
OGS: 4k
Universal go server handle: Celebrir
Don't worry, I'm not that fast myself because my girlfriend is visiting me until monday ;)

Click Here To Show Diagram Code
[go]$$Bcm21 illluck vs. Celebrir - Prisoners: 0-1
$$ ---------------------------------------
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . O O . O . . O . X . O . X . . X . . |
$$ | O . O X . . . . . , . . O O X , . . . |
$$ | . O X . . . . 0 . X . . . . X . . . . |
$$ | . X X . . . . . . . . . O . . . . . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . X . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . . , . . . . . , . . . . . O . . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . O . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . . O . . . . . , . . . . . , . . . |
$$ | . . . . . X . . . . X . . . . . X . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ ---------------------------------------[/go]


Looks better for me than expected. I would have played :b29: more lightly but I guess he doesn't want to be cut. Nut sure what is better here. Let's see what is possible for me now:

Click Here To Show Diagram Code
[go]$$Bcm21 illluck vs. Celebrir - Diagram 1
$$ ---------------------------------------
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . O O . O . . O . X . O . X . . X . . |
$$ | O . O X . . . . . , . . O O X , . . . |
$$ | . O X . . . . a . X . . . . X . . . . |
$$ | . X X . . . . . . . . . O . . . . . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . d . . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . X . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . . , . . . . . , . . . . . O . . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . c . . |
$$ | . . O . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . . O . . . . . , . . . . . , . . . |
$$ | . . . . . X . . . . X . . . . . X . . |
$$ | . . . b . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ ---------------------------------------[/go]


I guess the moves from a-d have to be thought about. Let's take a closer look.

Click Here To Show Diagram Code
[go]$$Wcm1 illluck vs. Celebrir - Diagram 2
$$ ---------------------------------------
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . O O . O . . O . X . O . X . . X . . |
$$ | O . O X . . . . . , . . O O X , . . . |
$$ | . O X . . . . . . X . . . . X . . . . |
$$ | . X X . . . . . . . . . O . . . . . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . X . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . . , . . . . . , . . . . . O . . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . b c . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . O . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . . . . a . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . . O . . . . . , . . . . . , . . . |
$$ | . . . . . X . . . . X . . . . . X . . |
$$ | . . . 1 . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ ---------------------------------------[/go]


This is a slow move. It would be good for me if he answers at 'a' but I fear he would answer at 'b' or 'c' (I would prefer 'b' but somehow I feel like he would play 'c' ;) )


Click Here To Show Diagram Code
[go]$$Wcm1 illluck vs. Celebrir - Diagram 3
$$ ---------------------------------------
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . O O . O . . O . X . O . X . . X . . |
$$ | O . O X . . . . . , . . O O X , . . . |
$$ | . O X . . . . 2 . X . . . . X . . . . |
$$ | . X X . . . . . . . . . O . . . . . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . X . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . . , . . . . . , . . . . . O . . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . 1 . . |
$$ | . . O . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . . O . . . . . , . . . . . , . . . |
$$ | . . a . . B . . . . X . . . . . X . . |
$$ | . . . b . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ ---------------------------------------[/go]


I don't think he would play at 'a' because the possibility to damage :bc: is to big. Maybe he would exchange 'b' for 'a' but I don't think that would be very bad for me. However, the move at :b2: seems very good for him.


Click Here To Show Diagram Code
[go]$$Wcm1 illluck vs. Celebrir - Diagram 4
$$ ---------------------------------------
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . a . . . . . . . |
$$ | . O O . O . . O . X . O . X . . X . . |
$$ | O . O X . . . . . , . . O O X , . . . |
$$ | . O X . . . . 1 . X . . . . X . . . . |
$$ | . X X . . . . . . . . . O . . . . . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . 2 . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . 3 . . . . . . |
$$ | . . X . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . . , . . . . . , . . . . . W . . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . O . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . . O . . . . . , . . . . . , . . . |
$$ | . . . . . X . . . . X . . . . . X . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ ---------------------------------------[/go]


What if I take :b2: in Dia. 3 ? :b2: seems to be natural bacause he can't escape at 'a' and maybe :w3: can work together with :wc: later. Of course he can try to cut this stones but I'm optimistic that I'm able to attack his :b2: group if he tries this.

Click Here To Show Diagram Code
[go]$$Wcm1 illluck vs. Celebrir - Diagram 5
$$ ---------------------------------------
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . O O . O . . O . X . O . X . . X . . |
$$ | O . O X . . . . . , . . O O X , . . . |
$$ | . O X . . . . . . X . . 7 6 X . . . . |
$$ | . X X . . . . . . . . . W . . 5 . . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . 8 . . . 4 2 1 . . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . 3 . . . . |
$$ | . . X . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . . , . . . . . , . . . . . O . . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . O . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . . O . . . . . , . . . . . , . . . |
$$ | . . a . . B . . . . X . . . . . X . . |
$$ | . . . b . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ ---------------------------------------[/go]


I think 'd' from Dia.1 can become an problem for :wc: very easily and I don't want to give him such a free attack.

Top
 Profile  
 
Offline
 Post subject: Re: 154. illuck vs. Celebrir
Post #43 Posted: Sat Jan 28, 2012 8:01 am 
Lives in sente

Posts: 1223
Liked others: 738
Was liked: 239
Rank: OGS 2d
KGS: illluck
Tygem: Trickprey
OGS: illluck
Click Here To Show Diagram Code
[go]$$Bcm31 illluck vs. Celebrir - Prisoners: 0-1
$$ ---------------------------------------
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . O O . O . . O . X . O . X . . X . . |
$$ | O . O X . . . . . , . . O O X , . . . |
$$ | . O X . . . . O . X . . . . X . . . . |
$$ | . X X . . . . . . . . . O . . . . . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . 1 . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . X . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . . , . . . . . , . . . . . O . . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . O . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . . O . . . . . , . . . . . , . . . |
$$ | . . . . . X . . . . X . . . . . X . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ ---------------------------------------[/go]


Fingers crossed for time-outs :p
I think I must jump out here. Not only does it strengthen my group, but also weakens white's. C8 would be very nice to get, but I'm not holding my breath for sente here. The top seems too urgent.

Top
 Profile  
 
Offline
 Post subject: Re: 154. illuck vs. Celebrir
Post #44 Posted: Sat Jan 28, 2012 10:27 am 
Lives in gote
User avatar

Posts: 353
Liked others: 36
Was liked: 14
Rank: German 1k
KGS: 1.Dan
OGS: 4k
Universal go server handle: Celebrir
I don't have problems with time-outs Oo Maybe because I always preview first ?

Click Here To Show Diagram Code
[go]$$Bcm31 illluck vs. Celebrir - Prisoners: 0-1
$$ ---------------------------------------
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . O O . O . . O . X . O . X . . X . . |
$$ | O . O X . . . . . , . . O O X , . . . |
$$ | . O X . . . . O . X . . . . X . . . . |
$$ | . X X . . . . . . . . . O . . . . . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . X . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . 2 . . . . . . |
$$ | . . X . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . . , . . . . . , . . . . . O . . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . O . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . . O . . . . . , . . . . . , . . . |
$$ | . . . . . X . . . . X . . . . . X . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ ---------------------------------------[/go]


Following the plan.

Top
 Profile  
 
Offline
 Post subject: Re: 154. illuck vs. Celebrir
Post #45 Posted: Sat Jan 28, 2012 1:36 pm 
Lives in sente

Posts: 1223
Liked others: 738
Was liked: 239
Rank: OGS 2d
KGS: illluck
Tygem: Trickprey
OGS: illluck
Click Here To Show Diagram Code
[go]$$Bcm31 illluck vs. Celebrir - Prisoners: 0-1
$$ ---------------------------------------
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . O O . O . . O . X . O . X . . X . . |
$$ | O . O X . . . . . , . . O O X , . . . |
$$ | . O X . . . . O . X . . . . X . . . . |
$$ | . X X . . . . . . . . . O . . . . . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . X . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . O . . . . . . |
$$ | . . X . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . . , . . . . . , . . . . . O . . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . 3 . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . O . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . . O . . . . . , . . . . . , . . . |
$$ | . . . . . X . . . . X . . . . . X . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ ---------------------------------------[/go]


Maybe I'll take this one first :p The issue is that it leaves a cap on the top, which will be painful. But I don't see a sente move that removes the cap possibility on the top, so I'll take this and force white to solidify the bottom for me in defending the corner. But I guess if it's just a move like D3 or D2 then I'll go back on top.

Top
 Profile  
 
Offline
 Post subject: Re: 154. illuck vs. Celebrir
Post #46 Posted: Sun Jan 29, 2012 3:14 am 
Lives in gote
User avatar

Posts: 353
Liked others: 36
Was liked: 14
Rank: German 1k
KGS: 1.Dan
OGS: 4k
Universal go server handle: Celebrir
Click Here To Show Diagram Code
[go]$$Bcm31 illluck vs. Celebrir - Prisoners: 0-1
$$ ---------------------------------------
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . O O . O . . O . X . O . X . . X . . |
$$ | O . O X . . . . . , . . O O X , . . . |
$$ | . O X . . . . O . X . . . . X . . . . |
$$ | . X X . . . . . . . . . O . . . . . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . X . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . O . . . . . . |
$$ | . . X . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . . , . . . . . , . . . . . O . . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . X . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . O . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . . O . . . . . , . . . . . , . . . |
$$ | . . . . . X . . . . X . . . . . X . . |
$$ | . . . 4 . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ ---------------------------------------[/go]


I guess I don't have much options here. I don't want this:
Click Here To Show Diagram Code
[go]$$Wcm1 illluck vs. Celebrir - Dia. 1
$$ ---------------------------------------
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . O O . O . . O . X . O . X . . X . . |
$$ | O . O X . . . . . , . . O O X , . . . |
$$ | . O X . . . . O . X . . . . X . . . . |
$$ | . X X . . . . . . . . . O . . . . . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . X . . . . . 1 . . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . O . . . . . . |
$$ | . . X . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . . , . . . . . , . . . . . O . . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . X . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . 0 O . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . 8 9 . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . 6 . O . . . . . , . . . . . , . . . |
$$ | . 7 3 . . X . . . . X . . . . . X . . |
$$ | . 5 4 2 . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ ---------------------------------------[/go]


Therefore I would have to play like this:

Click Here To Show Diagram Code
[go]$$Bcm31 illluck vs. Celebrir - Dia. 2
$$ ---------------------------------------
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . O O . O . . O . X . O . X . . X . . |
$$ | O . O X . . . . . , . . O O X , . . . |
$$ | . O X . . . . O . X . . . . X . . . . |
$$ | . X X . . . . . . . . . O . . . . . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . X . . . . . O . . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . O . . . . . . |
$$ | . . X . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . . , . . . . . , . . . . . O . . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . X . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . O . 4 . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . . O . . . . . , . . . . . , . . . |
$$ | . . 2 . . X . . . . X . . . . . X . . |
$$ | . . 3 1 . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ ---------------------------------------[/go]


I don't like this because he might be able to launch a good attack and/or reinforce his bottom side while I only safe my group. Therefore I'll just defend. This is not that bad. Remember that it was one of the moves I thought about at move 30.

Top
 Profile  
 
Offline
 Post subject: Re: 154. illuck vs. Celebrir
Post #47 Posted: Sun Jan 29, 2012 3:16 pm 
Lives in sente

Posts: 1223
Liked others: 738
Was liked: 239
Rank: OGS 2d
KGS: illluck
Tygem: Trickprey
OGS: illluck
Click Here To Show Diagram Code
[go]$$Bcm31 illluck vs. Celebrir - Prisoners: 0-1
$$ ---------------------------------------
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . O O . O . . O . X . O . X . . X . . |
$$ | O . O X . . . . . , . . O O X , . . . |
$$ | . O X . . . . O . X . . . . X . . . . |
$$ | . X X . . . . . . . . . O . . . . . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . X . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . O . . . . . . |
$$ | . . X . . . . . . 5 . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . . , . . . . . , . . . . . O . . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . X . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . O . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . . O . . . . . , . . . . . , . . . |
$$ | . . . . . X . . . . X . . . . . X . . |
$$ | . . . O . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ ---------------------------------------[/go]

As mentioned before, the jump feels important enough to play. My bottom is sort of open, but I personally would have trouble deciding whether to split the bottom or approach from the right side.

Top
 Profile  
 
Offline
 Post subject: Re: 154. illuck vs. Celebrir
Post #48 Posted: Mon Jan 30, 2012 9:45 am 
Lives in gote
User avatar

Posts: 353
Liked others: 36
Was liked: 14
Rank: German 1k
KGS: 1.Dan
OGS: 4k
Universal go server handle: Celebrir
Click Here To Show Diagram Code
[go]$$Bcm31 illluck vs. Celebrir - Prisoners: 0-1
$$ ---------------------------------------
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . O O . O . . O . X . O . X . . X . . |
$$ | O . O X . . . . . , . . O O X , . . . |
$$ | . O X . . . . O . X . . . . X . . . . |
$$ | . X X . . . . . . . . . O . . . . . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . X . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . O . . . . . . |
$$ | . . X . . . . . . X . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . . , . . . . . , . . . . . O . . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . X . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . O . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . . O . . . . . , . . . . . 6 . . . |
$$ | . . . . . X . . . . X . . . . . X . . |
$$ | . . . O . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ ---------------------------------------[/go]


So he doesn't want this group to be attacked anymore. I guess I have the options to either settle my own group or doing something at the bottom. If I would save my group I would choose this:

Click Here To Show Diagram Code
[go]$$Wcm1 illluck vs. Celebrir - Diagram 1
$$ ---------------------------------------
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . O O . O . . O . X . O . X . . X . . |
$$ | O . O X . . . . . , . . O O X , . . . |
$$ | . O X . . . . O . X . . . . X . . . . |
$$ | . X X . . . . . . . . . O . . . . . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . X . . . . 1 a . . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . O . . . . . . |
$$ | . . X . . . . . . X . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . . , . . . . . , . . . . . O . . . |[/go]


'a' would be another option, which could take away some points from his upper right, but I guess it is pretty cutable. Therefore I would prefer :w1:
For the bottom I see two options:

Click Here To Show Diagram Code
[go]$$Wcm1 illluck vs. Celebrir - Diagram 2
$$ ---------------------------------------
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . O O . O . . O . X . O . X . . X . . |
$$ | O . O X . . . . . , . . O O X , . . . |
$$ | . O X . . . . O . X . . . . X . . . . |
$$ | . X X . . . . . . . . . O . . . . . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . X . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . O . . . . . . |
$$ | . . X . . . . . . X . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . . , . . . . . , . . . . . O . . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . X a . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . . . . 4 . 5 . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . O . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . . . . 2 . 3 . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . . O . . . . . , . . . . . , . . . |
$$ | . . . . . X . 1 . . X . . . . . X . . |
$$ | . . . W . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ ---------------------------------------[/go]


This would try to take advantage of his tenuki after :wc: If B tenukis now, W could continue the attack with 'a' The other option would be to do something with his bottom right 3-3:

Click Here To Show Diagram Code
[go]$$Wcm1 illluck vs. Celebrir - Diagram 3
$$ ---------------------------------------
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . O O . O . . O . X . O . X . . X . . |
$$ | O . O X . . . . . , . . O O X , . . . |
$$ | . O X . . . . O . X . . . . X . . . . |
$$ | . X X . . . . . . . . . O . . . . . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . X . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . O . . . . . . |
$$ | . . X . . . . . . X . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . . , . . . . . , . a . . . O . . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . X . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . 5 . . . |
$$ | . . O . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . 9 . . . . . 4 . |
$$ | . . . O . . . . . , 8 7 . . 3 1 . . . |
$$ | . . . . . X . . . . X . . . . 2 X . . |
$$ | . . . O . . . . . . . . . 6 . . . . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ ---------------------------------------[/go]


This is an example which looks pretty nice because I build up some nice influence and with a move at 'a' it could become territory. I won't write down every possibility here but I don't see a variation which is really bad for me. Besides I get more information about his game plan at this way and might be able to decide between Dia. 1 and Dia. 2 later.

Top
 Profile  
 
Offline
 Post subject: Re: 154. illuck vs. Celebrir
Post #49 Posted: Mon Jan 30, 2012 11:39 am 
Judan

Posts: 6727
Location: Cambridge, UK
Liked others: 436
Was liked: 3720
Rank: UK 4 dan
KGS: Uberdude 4d
OGS: Uberdude 7d
illluck will turn not slide after pushing once.

Top
 Profile  
 
Offline
 Post subject: Re: 154. illuck vs. Celebrir
Post #50 Posted: Mon Jan 30, 2012 1:12 pm 
Lives in sente

Posts: 1223
Liked others: 738
Was liked: 239
Rank: OGS 2d
KGS: illluck
Tygem: Trickprey
OGS: illluck
Click Here To Show Diagram Code
[go]$$Bcm31 illluck vs. Celebrir - Prisoners: 0-1
$$ ---------------------------------------
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . O O . O . . O . X . O . X . . X . . |
$$ | O . O X . . . . . , . . O O X , . . . |
$$ | . O X . . . . O . X . . . . X . . . . |
$$ | . X X . . . . . . . . . O . . . . . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . X . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . O . . . . . . |
$$ | . . X . . . . . . X . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . . , . . . . . , . . . . . O . . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . X . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . O . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . . O . . . . . , . . . . . O . . . |
$$ | . . . . . X . . . . X . . . . 7 X . . |
$$ | . . . O . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ ---------------------------------------[/go]


I think this is correct direction. The other direction leaves possibility of black blocking at R5.

I'm not sure if I want to play the turn or the keima after white extends (white may jump instead, but then I'll just wedge in and it becomes a similar result to me turning.

Click Here To Show Diagram Code
[go]$$Bcm31 illluck vs. Celebrir - Prisoners: 0-1
$$ ---------------------------------------
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . O O . O . . O . X . O . X . . X . . |
$$ | O . O X . . . . . , . . O O X , . . . |
$$ | . O X . . . . O . X . . . . X . . . . |
$$ | . X X . . . . . . . . . O . . . . . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . X . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . O . . . . . . |
$$ | . . X . . . . . . X . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . . , . . . . . , . . . . . O . . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . X . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . O . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . b . |
$$ | . . . O . . . . . , . . . . 8 6 a . . |
$$ | . . . . . X . . . . X . . . . 7 X . . |
$$ | . . . O . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ ---------------------------------------[/go]


I generally prefer the turn at A, but in this case it seems like B is better.

Click Here To Show Diagram Code
[go]$$Bcm31 illluck vs. Celebrir - Prisoners: 0-1
$$ ---------------------------------------
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . O O . O . . O . X . O . X . . X . . |
$$ | O . O X . . . . . , . . O O X , . . . |
$$ | . O X . . . . O . X . . . . X . . . . |
$$ | . X X . . . . . . . . . O . . . . . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . X . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . O . . . . . . |
$$ | . . X . . . . . . X . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . . , . . . . . , . . . . . O . . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . X . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . O . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . . O . . . . . , . . . . . 6 . . . |
$$ | . . . . . X . . . . X . . 7 . . X . . |
$$ | . . . O . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ ---------------------------------------[/go]


Sometimes this move here (or the jump at other side) is interesting, but in this case I'm not strong enough on outside.

Top
 Profile  
 
Offline
 Post subject: Re: 154. illuck vs. Celebrir
Post #51 Posted: Tue Jan 31, 2012 2:40 am 
Lives in gote
User avatar

Posts: 353
Liked others: 36
Was liked: 14
Rank: German 1k
KGS: 1.Dan
OGS: 4k
Universal go server handle: Celebrir
Click Here To Show Diagram Code
[go]$$Bcm31 illluck vs. Celebrir - Prisoners: 0-1
$$ ---------------------------------------
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . O O . O . . O . X . O . X . . X . . |
$$ | O . O X . . . . . , . . O O X , . . . |
$$ | . O X . . . . O . X . . . . X . . . . |
$$ | . X X . . . . . . . . . O . . . . . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . X . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . O . . . . . . |
$$ | . . X . . . . . . X . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . . , . . . . . , . . . . . O . . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . X . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . O . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . . O . . . . . , . . . . 8 O . . . |
$$ | . . . . . X . . . . X . . . . X X . . |
$$ | . . . O . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ ---------------------------------------[/go]


I guess this decision is quite easy because I don't want this:

Click Here To Show Diagram Code
[go]$$Wcm1 illluck vs. Celebrir - Dia. 1
$$ ---------------------------------------
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . O O . O . . O . X . O . X . . X . . |
$$ | O . O X . . . . . , . . O O X , . . . |
$$ | . O X . . . . O . X . . . . X . . . . |
$$ | . X X . . . . . . . . . O . . . . . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . X . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . O . 8 . . . . |
$$ | . . X . . . . . . X . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . . , . . . . . , . . . . . O . . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . X . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . O . . . . . . . . . . . . . 6 . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . 5 3 . . . . |
$$ | . . . O . . . . . , . . . 1 2 O . . . |
$$ | . . . . . X . a . . X . . 7 4 X X . . |
$$ | . . . O . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ ---------------------------------------[/go]


This looks like I have 3 groups to worry about. All variations I know with :w1: at :b2: allow me to support my upper groups so this seems better. Of course I have an attack at 'a' but this seems very small if black fights well at the right side.

I don't know any other variations apart from the both I mentioned. But I'm far from beeing a expert for 3-3. If there are more, please tell me :)

Top
 Profile  
 
Offline
 Post subject: Re: 154. illuck vs. Celebrir
Post #52 Posted: Tue Jan 31, 2012 10:01 am 
Lives in sente

Posts: 1223
Liked others: 738
Was liked: 239
Rank: OGS 2d
KGS: illluck
Tygem: Trickprey
OGS: illluck
Click Here To Show Diagram Code
[go]$$Bcm31 illluck vs. Celebrir - Prisoners: 0-1
$$ ---------------------------------------
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . O O . O . . O . X . O . X . . X . . |
$$ | O . O X . . . . . , . . O O X , . . . |
$$ | . O X . . . . O . X . . . . X . . . . |
$$ | . X X . . . . . . . . . O . . . . . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . X . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . O . . . . . . |
$$ | . . X . . . . . . X . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . . , . . . . . , . . . . . O . . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . X . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . O . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . . O . . . . . , . . . . O O 9 . . |
$$ | . . . . . X . . . . X . . . . X X . . |
$$ | . . . O . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ ---------------------------------------[/go]

I mentioned in my last post that I thought the keima might be better than the turn, but I'm not so sure anymore. I think either way it becomes hard to attack the group, and with the turn there is a better chance to leave white sort of overconcentrated.

Top
 Profile  
 
Offline
 Post subject: Re: 154. illuck vs. Celebrir
Post #53 Posted: Tue Jan 31, 2012 12:27 pm 
Lives in gote
User avatar

Posts: 353
Liked others: 36
Was liked: 14
Rank: German 1k
KGS: 1.Dan
OGS: 4k
Universal go server handle: Celebrir
Click Here To Show Diagram Code
[go]$$Bcm31 illluck vs. Celebrir - Prisoners: 0-1
$$ ---------------------------------------
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . O O . O . . O . X . O . X . . X . . |
$$ | O . O X . . . . . , . . O O X , . . . |
$$ | . O X . . . . O . X . . . . X . . . . |
$$ | . X X . . . . . . . . . O . . . . . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . X . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . O . . . . . . |
$$ | . . X . . . . . . X . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . . , . . . . . , . . . . . O . . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . X . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . O . . . . . . . . . . . . 0 . . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . . O . . . . . , . . . . O O X . . |
$$ | . . . . . X . . . . X . . . . X X . . |
$$ | . . . O . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ ---------------------------------------[/go]


This time I don't know any other move than this. Please tell me if there are options. However, this doesn't seem bad to help my top

Top
 Profile  
 
Offline
 Post subject: Re: 154. illuck vs. Celebrir
Post #54 Posted: Tue Jan 31, 2012 3:01 pm 
Lives in sente

Posts: 1223
Liked others: 738
Was liked: 239
Rank: OGS 2d
KGS: illluck
Tygem: Trickprey
OGS: illluck
Click Here To Show Diagram Code
[go]$$Bcm41 illluck vs. Celebrir - Prisoners: 0-1
$$ ---------------------------------------
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . O O . O . . O . X . O . X . . X . . |
$$ | O . O X . . . . . , . . O O X , . . . |
$$ | . O X . . . . O . X . . . . X . . . . |
$$ | . X X . . . . . . . . . O . . . . . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . X . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . O . . . . . . |
$$ | . . X . . . . . . X . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . . , . . . . . , . . . . . O . . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . X . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . O . . . . . . . . . . . . O . . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . 1 . . |
$$ | . . . O . . . . . , . . . . O O X . . |
$$ | . . . . . X . . . . X . . . . X X . . |
$$ | . . . O . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ ---------------------------------------[/go]

Typical 3-3 joseki.

Top
 Profile  
 
Offline
 Post subject: Re: 154. illuck vs. Celebrir
Post #55 Posted: Tue Jan 31, 2012 3:27 pm 
Judan

Posts: 6727
Location: Cambridge, UK
Liked others: 436
Was liked: 3720
Rank: UK 4 dan
KGS: Uberdude 4d
OGS: Uberdude 7d
@Celebrir

Celebrir wrote:
This time I don't know any other move than this. Please tell me if there are options. However, this doesn't seem bad to help my top


You could play the bad move hane at r5 and hope your opponent answers with the submissive mistake at s5 instead of the good answer clamp at r6 :)

Top
 Profile  
 
Offline
 Post subject: Re: 154. illuck vs. Celebrir
Post #56 Posted: Tue Jan 31, 2012 5:48 pm 
Lives in sente

Posts: 1223
Liked others: 738
Was liked: 239
Rank: OGS 2d
KGS: illluck
Tygem: Trickprey
OGS: illluck
Normally white cannot block because then the cut is hard to deal with. Here it might be possible, but if I get the cut then I can start harassing N12 pretty easily, so I suspect it should be fine for me as well.

Top
 Profile  
 
Offline
 Post subject: Re: 154. illuck vs. Celebrir
Post #57 Posted: Thu Feb 02, 2012 7:27 am 
Lives in gote
User avatar

Posts: 353
Liked others: 36
Was liked: 14
Rank: German 1k
KGS: 1.Dan
OGS: 4k
Universal go server handle: Celebrir
Click Here To Show Diagram Code
[go]$$Bcm41 illluck vs. Celebrir - Prisoners: 0-1
$$ ---------------------------------------
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . O O . O . . O . X . O . X . . X . . |
$$ | O . O X . . . . . , . . O O X , . . . |
$$ | . O X . . . . O . X . . . . X . . . . |
$$ | . X X . . . . . . . . . O . . . . . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . X . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . O . . . . . . |
$$ | . . X . . . . . . X . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . . , . . . . . , . . . . . O . . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . X . . . . . . . . . . . 2 . . . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . O . . . . . . . . . . . . O . . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . X . . |
$$ | . . . O . . . . . , . . . . O O X . . |
$$ | . . . . . X . . . . X . . . . X X . . |
$$ | . . . O . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ ---------------------------------------[/go]


There are few choices now I know:
Click Here To Show Diagram Code
[go]$$Wcm1 illluck vs. Celebrir - Dia. 1
$$ ---------------------------------------
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . O O . O . . O . X . O . X . . X . . |
$$ | O . O X . . . . . , . . O O X , . . . |
$$ | . O X . . . . O . X . . . . X . . . . |
$$ | . X X . . . . . . . . . O . . . . . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . X . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . O . . . . . . |
$$ | . . X . . . . . . X . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . . , . . . . . , . . . . . O . . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . X . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . 1 . a . . |
$$ | . . O . . . . . . . . . . 2 3 O . . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . X . . |
$$ | . . . O . . . . . , . . . . O O X . . |
$$ | . . . . . X . . . . X . . 4 . X X . . |
$$ | . . . O . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ ---------------------------------------[/go]

This looks ugly for me. Besides B can still play at 'a' which looks bad for me in this position.

Click Here To Show Diagram Code
[go]$$Wcm1 illluck vs. Celebrir - Dia. 2
$$ ---------------------------------------
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . O O . O . . O . X . O . X . . X . . |
$$ | O . O X . . . . . , . . O O X , . . . |
$$ | . O X . . . . O . X . . . . X . . . . |
$$ | . X X . . . . . . . . . O . . . . . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . X . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . O . . . . . . |
$$ | . . X . . . . . . X . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . . , . . . . . , . . . . . O . . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . X . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . 1 . . 2 . . |
$$ | . . O . . . . . . . . . . . . O . . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . X . . |
$$ | . . . O . . . . . , . . . . O O X . . |
$$ | . . . . . X . . . . X . . . 3 X X . . |
$$ | . . . O . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ ---------------------------------------[/go]

This looks like the wrong direction because I want to help my to stones.

Click Here To Show Diagram Code
[go]$$Wcm1 illluck vs. Celebrir - Dia. 3
$$ ---------------------------------------
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . O O . O . . O . X . O . X . . X . . |
$$ | O . O X . . . . . , . . O O X , . . . |
$$ | . O X . . . . O . X . . . . X . . . . |
$$ | . X X . . . . . . . . . O . . . . . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . X . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . O . . . . . . |
$$ | . . X . . . . . . X . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . . , . . . . . , . . . . . O . . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . X . . . . . . . . . . . 1 9 5 . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . d a 8 . . . |
$$ | . . O . . . . . . . . . . 3 0 b 2 . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . c 7 6 X . . |
$$ | . . . O . . . . . , . . . . O O X . . |
$$ | . . . . . X . . . . X . . 4 . X X . . |
$$ | . . . O . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ ---------------------------------------[/go]

With the last move at 'a' This looks okay for me. If he protects at 'b' I can play 'c' and don't need to worry about 'd' because this cut doesn't work now:

Click Here To Show Diagram Code
[go]$$Bcm1 illluck vs. Celebrir - Dia. 3
$$ ---------------------------------------
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . O O . O . . O . X . O . X . . X . . |
$$ | O . O X . . . . . , . . O O X , . . . |
$$ | . O X . . . . O . X . . . . X . . . . |
$$ | . X X . . . . . . . . . O . . . . . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . X . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . O . . . . . . |
$$ | . . X . . . . . . X . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . . , . . . . . , . . . 6 8 O . . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . 4 5 7 . . . . |
$$ | . . X . . . . . . . . 0 9 3 O O O . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . 2 1 O X . . . |
$$ | . . O . . . . . . . . . . O X X X . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . O O X X . . |
$$ | . . . O . . . . . , . . . . O O X . . |
$$ | . . . . . X . . . . X . . X . X X . . |
$$ | . . . O . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ ---------------------------------------[/go]

:b5: at :b9: doesn't help because B has only one liberty than and can be forced to play the same way as before.

Top
 Profile  
 
Offline
 Post subject: Re: 154. illuck vs. Celebrir
Post #58 Posted: Thu Feb 02, 2012 9:39 am 
Lives in sente

Posts: 1223
Liked others: 738
Was liked: 239
Rank: OGS 2d
KGS: illluck
Tygem: Trickprey
OGS: illluck
Click Here To Show Diagram Code
[go]$$Bcm41 illluck vs. Celebrir - Prisoners: 0-1
$$ ---------------------------------------
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . O O . O . . O . X . O . X . . X . . |
$$ | O . O X . . . . . , . . O O X , . . . |
$$ | . O X . . . . O . X . . . . X . . . . |
$$ | . X X . . . . . . . . . O . . . . . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . X . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . O . . . . . . |
$$ | . . X . . . . . . X . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . . , . . . . . , . . . . . O . . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . X . . . . . . . . . . . O . . . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . O . . . . . . . . . . . . O . . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . X . . |
$$ | . . . O . . . . . , . . . . O O X . . |
$$ | . . . . . X . . . . X . . 3 . X X . . |
$$ | . . . O . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ ---------------------------------------[/go]


Still joseki. I actually was going to play the jump on the other side before I remembered I was trying to over-concentrate somehow. Here white probably shouldn't block on the other side, but I'm not exactly sure of the next move. Perhaps something like H3?

Top
 Profile  
 
Offline
 Post subject: Re: 154. illuck vs. Celebrir
Post #59 Posted: Thu Feb 02, 2012 12:12 pm 
Lives in gote
User avatar

Posts: 353
Liked others: 36
Was liked: 14
Rank: German 1k
KGS: 1.Dan
OGS: 4k
Universal go server handle: Celebrir
Uberdude wrote:
@Celebrir

Celebrir wrote:
This time I don't know any other move than this. Please tell me if there are options. However, this doesn't seem bad to help my top


You could play the bad move hane at r5 and hope your opponent answers with the submissive mistake at s5 instead of the good answer clamp at r6 :)

True, you got me here ;) Should say a "playable" option.


Click Here To Show Diagram Code
[go]$$Bcm41 illluck vs. Celebrir - Prisoners: 0-1
$$ ---------------------------------------
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . O O . O . . O . X . O . X . . X . . |
$$ | O . O X . . . . . , . . O O X , . . . |
$$ | . O X . . . . O . X . . . . X . . . . |
$$ | . X X . . . . . . . . . O . . . . . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . X . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . O . . . . . . |
$$ | . . X . . . . . . X . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . . , . . . . . , . . . . . O . . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . X . . . . . . . . . . . O . . . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . O . . . . . . . . . . . . O 4 . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . X . . |
$$ | . . . O . . . . . , . . . . O O X . . |
$$ | . . . . . X . . . . X . . X . X X . . |
$$ | . . . O . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ ---------------------------------------[/go]


This seems to be one move to soon for the joseki I know... (See Dia.3 in for my last post to see what I expected.) It seems bad to continue like I planned because he can come back to the normal joseki than.I'll try to punish him with the theory "His good move is my good move"

Click Here To Show Diagram Code
[go]$$Wcm1 illluck vs. Celebrir - Dia.1
$$ ---------------------------------------
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . O O . O . . O . X . O . X . . X . . |
$$ | O . O X . . . . . , . . O O X , . . . |
$$ | . O X . . . . O . X . . . . X . . . . |
$$ | . X X . . . . . . . . . O . . . . . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . X . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . O . . . . . . |
$$ | . . X . . . . . . X . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . . , . . . . . , . . . . . O . . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . X . . . . . . . . . . . O . . . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . 7 6 8 9 . . |
$$ | . . O . . . . . . . . . . 5 4 O 1 . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . 3 2 X . . |
$$ | . . . O . . . . . , . . . . O O X . . |
$$ | . . . . . X . . . . X . . X . X X . . |
$$ | . . . O . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ ---------------------------------------[/go]


The cut doesn't seem to work and I don't see any other danger. I hope I don't overlook anything.

Top
 Profile  
 
Offline
 Post subject: Re: 154. illuck vs. Celebrir
Post #60 Posted: Thu Feb 02, 2012 12:29 pm 
Gosei
User avatar

Posts: 1378
Location: wHam!lton, Aotearoa
Liked others: 253
Was liked: 105
Idly counting. Probably a bit optimistic for white on the right.
Click Here To Show Diagram Code
[go]$$Bc illluck vs. Celebrir - Prisoners: 0-1
$$ ---------------------------------------
$$ | 1 3 . . . . o . . . . . . . x . . 1 1 |
$$ | . . . o . . o . . . . . . . x . . . . |
$$ | . O O . O o . O . X . O . X x . X . . |
$$ | O . O X . . . . . , . . O O X x . x x |
$$ | . O X . . . . O . X . . . . X . . . . |
$$ | . X X . . . . . . . . . O . . . . . . |
$$ | x x . . . . . . . X . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . x . . . . . . . . . O . . . . . . |
$$ | 6 . X . . . . . . X . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . x , . . . . . , . . . . . O o o o |
$$ | x x x . . . . . . . . . . . . o . 9 . |
$$ | . . X . . . . . . . . . . . O . . . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . o . . o o |
$$ | . . O . . . . . . . . . . . . O O . . |
$$ | o o o . . . . . . . . . . . . . X . . |
$$ | . . . O . . . . . , . . . . O O X x x |
$$ | . . . o . X . . . . X x x X . X X . . |
$$ | 1 2 . O . . . . . . x . . . x . . . . |
$$ | . . . o . . . . . . x . . . . 1 7 . . |
$$ ---------------------------------------[/go]

_________________
Revisiting Go - Study Journal
My Programming Blog - About the evolution of my go bot.

Top
 Profile  
 
Display posts from previous:  Sort by  
Post new topic Reply to topic  [ 199 posts ]  Go to page Previous  1, 2, 3, 4, 5, 6 ... 10  Next

All times are UTC - 8 hours [ DST ]


Who is online

Users browsing this forum: No registered users and 1 guest


You cannot post new topics in this forum
You cannot reply to topics in this forum
You cannot edit your posts in this forum
You cannot delete your posts in this forum
You cannot post attachments in this forum

Search for:
Jump to:  
Powered by phpBB © 2000, 2002, 2005, 2007 phpBB Group