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Offline shmit
 Post subject: Two 'intermediate' tsumego
Post #1 Posted: Fri May 04, 2012 1:07 am 
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Hey guys, Im working through Cho Chikun's Encyclopaedia of life and death (without the answers) and I cant find the solution to intermediate problem 62 and 71.
Status problems black to play.

Click Here To Show Diagram Code
[go]$$B Problem 62
$$ ------------------
$$ | . . . . . . . . .
$$ | . X X . X . . . .
$$ | . O X O X . . O .
$$ | . O O , O O . . .
$$ | . . . . . . . . .
$$ | . . . . . . . . .
$$ | . . . . . . . . .
$$ | . . . . . . . . .
$$ | . . . . . . . . .[/go]


And
Click Here To Show Diagram Code
[go]$$B Problem 71
$$ ------------------
$$ | . . . . . O . . .
$$ | X X . X X O . . .
$$ | . . X O O O . . .
$$ | . O O , . . . . .
$$ | . . . . . . . . .
$$ | . . . . . . . . .
$$ | . . . . . . . . .
$$ | . . . . . . . . .
$$ | . . . . . . . . .[/go]

I have spent quite a while on these problem but no matter what I try black always dies. Any ideas?
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Offline stalkor
 Post subject: Re: Two 'intermediate' tsumego
Post #2 Posted: Fri May 04, 2012 2:18 am 
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Click Here To Show Diagram Code
[go]$$B Problem 71
$$ ------------------
$$ | . 3 2 5 1 O . . .
$$ | X X 4 X X O . . .
$$ | . . X O O O . . .
$$ | . O O , . . . . .
$$ | . . . . . . . . .
$$ | . . . . . . . . .
$$ | . . . . . . . . .
$$ | . . . . . . . . .
$$ | . . . . . . . . .[/go]


Click Here To Show Diagram Code
[go]$$B Problem 71
$$ ------------------
$$ | . X 8 X X O . . .
$$ | X X 6 X X O . . .
$$ | . 7 X O O O . . .
$$ | . O O , . . . . .
$$ | . . . . . . . . .
$$ | . . . . . . . . .
$$ | . . . . . . . . .
$$ | . . . . . . . . .
$$ | . . . . . . . . .[/go]


Click Here To Show Diagram Code
[go]$$B Problem 71
$$ ------------------
$$ | . X O . . O . . .
$$ | X X O 9 . O . . .
$$ | . X X O O O . . .
$$ | . O O , . . . . .
$$ | . . . . . . . . .
$$ | . . . . . . . . .
$$ | . . . . . . . . .
$$ | . . . . . . . . .
$$ | . . . . . . . . .[/go]

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Offline Dusk Eagle
 Post subject: Re: Two 'intermediate' tsumego
Post #3 Posted: Fri May 04, 2012 5:50 am 
Gosei
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The setup for problem 62 is wrong. Here's the correct setup:

Click Here To Show Diagram Code
[go]$$B Problem 62
$$ ------------------
$$ | . . . . . . . . .
$$ | . X X . X X X O .
$$ | . O X O X O O O .
$$ | . O O , O . . . .
$$ | . . . . O . . . .
$$ | . . . . . . . . .
$$ | . . . . . . . . .
$$ | . . . . . . . . .
$$ | . . . . . . . . .[/go]

http://tsumego.tasuki.org/cho-2-intermediate.pdf

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We don't know who we are; we don't know where we are.
Each of us woke up one moment and here we were in the darkness.
We're nameless things with no memory; no knowledge of what went before,
No understanding of what is now, no knowledge of what will be.
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Offline speedchase
 Post subject: Re: Two 'intermediate' tsumego
Post #4 Posted: Fri May 04, 2012 6:29 am 
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Click Here To Show Diagram Code
[go]$$B Problem 62
$$ ------------------
$$ | . . . 1 . . . . .
$$ | . X X . X X X O .
$$ | . O X O X O O O .
$$ | . O O , O . . . .
$$ | . . . . O . . . .
$$ | . . . . . . . . .
$$ | . . . . . . . . .
$$ | . . . . . . . . .
$$ | . . . . . . . . .[/go]


Dusk eagle, doesn't this work?

Click Here To Show Diagram Code
[go]$$B Problem 62
$$ ------------------
$$ | . . . . . . . . .
$$ | 2 X X . X . 1 3 .
$$ | . O X O X . . O .
$$ | . O O , O O . . .
$$ | . . . . . . . . .
$$ | . . . . . . . . .
$$ | . . . . . . . . .
$$ | . . . . . . . . .
$$ | . . . . . . . . .[/go]
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Offline shmit
 Post subject: Re: Two 'intermediate' tsumego
Post #5 Posted: Fri May 04, 2012 7:24 am 
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Thanks a lot stalkor I missed move :b7: now that I see it I really like the problem. Sorry dusk I mislabled the problem its problem 63.
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Offline Dusk Eagle
 Post subject: Re: Two 'intermediate' tsumego
Post #6 Posted: Fri May 04, 2012 7:31 am 
Gosei
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Yeah, that appears to be the solution to number 63. I couldn't find it at first, and I just thought it was set up wrong. Gah, my tsumego skills are so out of shape.

_________________
We don't know who we are; we don't know where we are.
Each of us woke up one moment and here we were in the darkness.
We're nameless things with no memory; no knowledge of what went before,
No understanding of what is now, no knowledge of what will be.
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Offline shmit
 Post subject: Re: Two 'intermediate' tsumego
Post #7 Posted: Fri May 04, 2012 8:24 am 
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Hey guys i just cant seem to find the solution after

Click Here To Show Diagram Code
[go]$$B Problem 62
$$ ------------------
$$ | . . . . . . . . .
$$ | . X X . X . 1 . .
$$ | . O X O X 2 . O .
$$ | . O O , O O . . .
$$ | . . . . . . . . .
$$ | . . . . . . . . .
$$ | . . . . . . . . .
$$ | . . . . . . . . .
$$ | . . . . . . . . .[/go]

For me the right side always becomes a false eye
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Offline speedchase
 Post subject: Re: Two 'intermediate' tsumego
Post #8 Posted: Fri May 04, 2012 8:55 am 
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Click Here To Show Diagram Code
[go]$$B Problem
$$ ------------------
$$ | . . . a . . . . .
$$ | . X X . X 3 1 , .
$$ | . O X O X 2 . O .
$$ | . O O . O O . . .
$$ | . . . . . . . . .
$$ | . . . . . . . . .
$$ | . . . . . . . . .
$$ | . . . . . . . . .
$$ | . . . . . . . . .[/go]

black can live with a, and there really isn't a way for white to get rid of that in sente, so black can probably escape along the bottom, i think...
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Offline shmit
 Post subject: Re: Two 'intermediate' tsumego
Post #9 Posted: Fri May 04, 2012 9:13 am 
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Thanks a lot didnt think of (a) which is bizarre as the problem before this one (which is shown above) is almost exactly the same and I found that answer right before attempting this one.
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Offline cyclops
 Post subject: Re: Two 'intermediate' tsumego
Post #10 Posted: Fri May 04, 2012 3:08 pm 
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speedchase wrote:
Click Here To Show Diagram Code
[go]$$B Problem
$$ ------------------
$$ | . . . a . . . . .
$$ | . X X . X 3 1 , .
$$ | . O X O X 2 . O .
$$ | . O O . O O . . .
$$ | . . . . . . . . .
$$ | . . . . . . . . .
$$ | . . . . . . . . .
$$ | . . . . . . . . .
$$ | . . . . . . . . .[/go]

black can live with a, and there really isn't a way for white to get rid of that in sente, so black can probably escape along the bottom, i think...


Some continuation:
Click Here To Show Diagram Code
[go]$$Wc
$$ +-----------------------
$$ | . . . 2 . . . . . . .
$$ | 8 X X 1 X B X 4 6 . .
$$ | . O X O X O a O 5 7 .
$$ | . O O 3 O O . . . , .
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . .[/go]

At 7 w cannot hane because of his weakness at a. So 7 & 8 are black's miai for life or escape, I think...
Any local solution?
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