Dankovitch I: Shaddy vs. dts

daniel_the_smith · #1

I'm black, Shaddy is white, no komi. We actually played two games, each winning one on account of a silly mistake. This will be the second (longer) one, it should be pretty entertaining. (What is this? See here)

Click Here To Show Diagram Code: [go]$$Bcm1 Move 1 $$ --------------------------------------- $$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . | $$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . | $$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . | $$ | . . . , . . . . . , . . . . . , . . . | $$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . 1 . . | $$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . | $$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . | $$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . | $$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . | $$ | . . . , . . . . . , . . . . . , . . . | $$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . | $$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . | $$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . | $$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . | $$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . | $$ | . . . , . . . . . , . . . . . , . . . | $$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . | $$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . | $$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . | $$ ---------------------------------------[/go]

I guess I'll let Shaddy post his moves?

And I guess I'll let people make predictions and/or ask before posting my thoughts?

Chew Terr · #2

Thanks to both of you for doing this. I look forwards to it. Not a lot we can tell from this first move, as it's probably some combination of 'current favorite opening, whim, and what you've been seeing lately'.

Redundant · #3

I think Daniel took my suggestion in that other thread, and will play jabberwocks here.

As for white ... he's about to do something incredibly odd and unpredictable.

Shaddy · #4

Click Here To Show Diagram Code: [go]$$Bcm1 Move 1 $$ --------------------------------------- $$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . | $$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . | $$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . | $$ | . . . , . . . . . , . . . . . , . . . | $$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . 1 . . | $$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . | $$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . | $$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . | $$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . | $$ | . . . , . . . . . , . . . . . , . . . | $$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . | $$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . | $$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . | $$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . | $$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . | $$ | . . . , . . . . . , . . . . . , 2 . . | $$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . | $$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . | $$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . | $$ ---------------------------------------[/go]

fwiffo · #5

To me,

makes a lot of sense. Black playing the 4-4 in the lower left permits an attractive approach to the 3-4 stone in the lower right, but that would be a cross fuseki. The 5-3 stone is influence oriented, and the 3-4 stone is territory oriented, and cross-fuseki games tend to be territorial because it's more difficult to build large moyos. At the same time, the :b1:

is oriented toward development of the right side, but black does not have a good approach to :w2:

from that direction.

Loons · #6

While what fwiffo says is true, I think it's important to note that 5-3s are very flexible stones. While the press (developing the right) might be less ideal, this stone may become an enclosure or left with an eye to pincering an approach.

dfan · #7

My move:

daniel_the_smith · #8

That's one point to dfan, if you're keeping score.

Click Here To Show Diagram Code: [go]$$Bcm3 Move 3 $$ --------------------------------------- $$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . | $$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . | $$ | . . . . 1 . . . . . . . . . . . . . . | $$ | . . . , . . . . . , . . . . . , . . . | $$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . X . . | $$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . | $$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . | $$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . | $$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . | $$ | . . . , . . . . . , . . . . . , . . . | $$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . | $$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . | $$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . | $$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . | $$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . | $$ | . . . , . . . . . , . . . . . , O . . | $$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . | $$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . | $$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . | $$ ---------------------------------------[/go]

I wanted to play q4 with this move, to complete Araban's suggested opening, but Shaddy shut that plan down, so I had to fall back to the jabberwock.

Chew Terr · #9

Not sure if this is a Shaddy sort of opening, but I like this one:

zinger · **#10**

Shaddy · **#11**

Click Here To Show Diagram Code: [go]$$c $$ --------------------------------------- $$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . | $$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . | $$ | . . . . 3 . . . . . . . . . . . . . . | $$ | . . . , . . . . . , . . . . . , . . . | $$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . X . . | $$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . | $$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . | $$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . | $$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . | $$ | . . . , . . . . . , . . . . . , . . . | $$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . | $$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . | $$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . | $$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . | $$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . | $$ | . . . 4 . . . . . , . . . . . , O . . | $$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . | $$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . | $$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . | $$ ---------------------------------------[/go]

never tried mukai komoku, don't really like the way it looks for some reason. 3-3 fits my style but it's annoying giving away so much influence, i'd rather just play 4-4.

Loons · **#12**

Chew Terr · **#13**

Loons · **#14**

@Chew

Edit:
Wracking my brains a bit, I think I remember that the captain likes this:

And who doesn't want to be more like TheCaptain

dfan · **#15**

My move:

daniel_the_smith · **#16**

I have to say I'm liking my move more than the suggested ones...

Click Here To Show Diagram Code: [go]$$Bcm5 $$ --------------------------------------- $$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . | $$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . | $$ | . . . . X . . . . . . . . . . . . . . | $$ | . . . , . . . . . , . . . . . , . . . | $$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . X . . | $$ | . . . 1 . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . | $$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . | $$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . | $$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . | $$ | . . . , . . . . . , . . . . . , . . . | $$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . | $$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . | $$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . | $$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . | $$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . | $$ | . . . O . . . . . , . . . . . , O . . | $$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . | $$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . | $$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . | $$ ---------------------------------------[/go]

I almost said you could guess if you thought about what I was originally trying to play but that would have given it away...

This switches to an influence based opening, I think, and I'm trying to learn new stuff, so I played it.

freegame · **#17**

I got a question about blacks opening:

The goal of a Dankovitch is to give kyu players an insight in the thoughts of dan players isn't it?
Then why do you play such an uncommon opening?

guessing the next move:

dfan · **#18**

I'm happy to see this. This sort of shimari always terrifies me (as White in this case) and I'm eager to see how Shaddy handles it.

Quote:

The goal of a Dankovitch is to give kyu players an insight in the thoughts of dan players isn't it?

I think that part of it is to give the kyu players a chance to think about the moves first, before they're explained; otherwise it's kind of just a Malkovich game.

amnal · **#19**

freegame wrote:

I got a question about blacks opening:

The goal of a Dankovitch is to give kyu players an insight in the thoughts of dan players isn't it?
Then why do you play such an uncommon opening?

If the thoughts of dan players are 'I'll play differently to normal so that the kyu players will understand', maybe that defeats the point

I realise that that's a false argument, but still, I doubt this sort of game is really less suitable than one where the players try to stick rigidly to more well known joseki. If nothing else, I think it's valuable to see how little the middlegame is influenced by your opponent's weird shapes in the opening

Actually, I think this is a great choice, because the shimari is fairly well researched whilst also being interesting and difficult to use effectively. It's only a little less professionally common than playing one space higher (which seems to be a fairly common amateur 'I will eat the whole board' move), though the normal shimari outnumbers both of these by far. It will be interesting to see how white chooses to handle it based on positional judgement, but also interesting to see if it matches pro responses (IMO, anyway).

daniel_the_smith · **#20**

freegame wrote:

I got a question about blacks opening:

The goal of a Dankovitch is to give kyu players an insight in the thoughts of dan players isn't it?
Then why do you play such an uncommon opening?

If I played differently than normal (for me) just because people would be looking at the game then it wouldn't be an accurate reflection of how I normally play, I don't think. And it's high time I experiment with my opening a little.

Besides, this way I can't pretend to know what I'm doing...

Dankovitch I: Shaddy vs. dts

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