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 Post subject: Re: 112. joppon v Marcus
Post #61 Posted: Tue May 17, 2011 2:25 pm 
Gosei

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Click Here To Show Diagram Code
[go]$$Bcm41 Prisoner Count: :b1: :white:
$$ ---------------------------------------
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . O O X . . . . . . . . . . X O . . |
$$ | . . O X X . . . . , . . . O . X O . . |
$$ | . . O X X O . . . . . . . X X . . . . |
$$ | . O . O X . O . . . . . . . . . O . . |
$$ | . O O O X X O . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . X X X O O X . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . . X . 2 . . . , . . . . . , O . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . X . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . . , . . . . . , . . . . . , X . . |
$$ | . . . . O . . . . . . . . . X . . . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ ---------------------------------------[/go]


To those about to rock ... we salute you!

Five groups, three of his, two of mine. I hope this works out to my advantage ...

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 Post subject: Re: 112. joppon v Marcus
Post #62 Posted: Wed May 18, 2011 2:48 am 
Lives in gote
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interesting, if i were white i would feel rather troubled with this position. however, after some reading it seems that outcome of the fight might not be entirely clear...

first, i believe that black has to reinforce his upper group, otherwise it gets killed. 1 is the most optimistic move for this in my opinion (note that there are some variations for white if he answers 1 with 'a')
then pretty much depends on whether white can capture the black cutting stone and it appears that he cannot.
below is variation i inspected, where white plays 4 and let black decide between answering 'b' or helping his lone stone

Click Here To Show Diagram Code
[go]$$Bcm1 Diagram 62-1
$$ ---------------------------------------
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . O O X . . . . . . . . . . X O . . |
$$ | . . O X X . 1 a . , . . . O . X O . . |
$$ | . . O X X O . . . . . . . X X . . . . |
$$ | . O . O X . O . . . . . . . . . O . . |
$$ | . O O O X X O . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . X X X O O X 2 . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . . . . . 3 . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . . X 4 W . . c , . . . . . , O . . |
$$ | . . . b . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . X . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . . , . . . . . , . . . . . , X . . |
$$ | . . . . O . . . . . . . . . X . . . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ ---------------------------------------[/go]

but, as i realized later, white 1 doesn't capture, so black can happily answer on the left:

Click Here To Show Diagram Code
[go]$$Wcm1 Diagram 62-2
$$ ---------------------------------------
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . O O X . . . . . . . . . . X O . . |
$$ | . . O X X . X . . , . . . O . X O . . |
$$ | . . O X X O . . . . . . . X X . . . . |
$$ | . O . O X . O 6 . . . . . . . . O . . |
$$ | . O O O X X O 4 . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . X X X O O X O 5 . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . . . . . X 2 3 . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . . X O O . . 1 , . . . . . , O . . |
$$ | . . . B . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . X . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . . , . . . . . , . . . . . , X . . |
$$ | . . . . O . . . . . . . . . X . . . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ ---------------------------------------[/go]

afterall, because easy variations fail, the situation will probably evolve to a large scale fight, but i believe black has an advantage because his groups on the sides are relatively safe while both white groups float in the open space

_________________
Spilling gasoline feels good.

I might be wrong, but probably not.

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Post #63 Posted: Wed May 18, 2011 3:41 am 
Honinbo
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Laman,
How about:
Click Here To Show Diagram Code
[go]$$B
$$ ---------------------------------------
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . O O X . . 1 . . . . . . . X O . . |
$$ | . . O X X . . . . , . . . O . X O . . |
$$ | . . O X X O . . . . . . . X X . . . . |
$$ | . O . O X . O . . . . . . . . . O . . |
$$ | . O O O X X O . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . X X X O O X 2 . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . . . . . 3 . 6 . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . . X 4 O . . . , . . . . . , O . . |
$$ | . . . 5 . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . X . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . . , . . . . . , . . . . . , X . . |
$$ | . . . . O . . . . . . . . . X . . . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ ---------------------------------------[/go]

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 Post subject: Re: 112. joppon v Marcus
Post #64 Posted: Thu May 19, 2011 8:32 am 
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Click Here To Show Diagram Code
[go]$$Bcm41 Prisoner Count: :b1: :white:
$$ ---------------------------------------
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . O O X . . 3 . . . . . . . X O . . |
$$ | . . O X X . . . . , . . . O . X O . . |
$$ | . . O X X O . . . . . . . X X . . . . |
$$ | . O . O X . O . . . . . . . . . O . . |
$$ | . O O O X X O . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . X X X O O X . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . . X . O . . . , . . . . . , O . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . X . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . . , . . . . . , . . . . . , X . . |
$$ | . . . . O . . . . . . . . . X . . . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ ---------------------------------------[/go]

My cutting stone cannot be (immediately) captured, as far as I can see.

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 Post subject: Re: 112. joppon v Marcus
Post #65 Posted: Thu May 19, 2011 6:37 pm 
Gosei

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Click Here To Show Diagram Code
[go]$$Bcm41 Prisoner Count: :b1: :white:
$$ ---------------------------------------
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . O O X . . X . . . . . . . X O . . |
$$ | . . O X X . . . . , . . . O . X O . . |
$$ | . . O X X O . . . . . . . X X . . . . |
$$ | . O . O X . O . . 4 . . . . . . O . . |
$$ | . O O O X X O . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . X X X O O X . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . . X . O . . . , . . . . . , O . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . X . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . . , . . . . . , . . . . . , X . . |
$$ | . . . . O . . . . . . . . . X . . . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ ---------------------------------------[/go]


Reduction up top is most important to me right now. My other group is harder to attack.

There are a lot of variations coming up. Let's see what my opponent does here.

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Post #66 Posted: Thu May 19, 2011 6:41 pm 
Honinbo
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Hmm, letting B get this nobi...
Click Here To Show Diagram Code
[go]$$B
$$ ---------------------------------------
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . O O X . . X . . . . . . . X O . . |
$$ | . . O X X . . . . , . . . O . X O . . |
$$ | . . O X X O . . . . . . . X X . . . . |
$$ | . O . O X . O . . O . . . . . . O . . |
$$ | . O O O X X O . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . X X X O O X 1 . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . . X . O . . . , . . . . . , O . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . X . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . . , . . . . . , . . . . . , X . . |
$$ | . . . . O . . . . . . . . . X . . . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ -----------------------------------------[/go]

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 Post subject: Re: 112. joppon v Marcus
Post #67 Posted: Fri May 20, 2011 4:29 am 
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Click Here To Show Diagram Code
[go]$$Bcm41 Prisoner Count: :b1: :white:
$$ ---------------------------------------
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . O O X . . X . . . . . . . X O . . |
$$ | . . O X X . . . . , . . . O . X O . . |
$$ | . . O X X O . . . . . . . X X . . . . |
$$ | . O . O X . O . . O . . . . . . O . . |
$$ | . O O O X X O . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . X X X O O X 5 . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . . X . O . . . , . . . . . , O . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . X . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . . , . . . . . , . . . . . , X . . |
$$ | . . . . O . . . . . . . . . X . . . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ ---------------------------------------[/go]

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 Post subject: Re: 112. joppon v Marcus
Post #68 Posted: Sat May 21, 2011 6:00 am 
Gosei

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Click Here To Show Diagram Code
[go]$$Bcm41 Prisoner Count: :b1: :white:
$$ ---------------------------------------
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . O O X . . X . . . . . . . X O . . |
$$ | . . O X X . . . 6 , . . . O . X O . . |
$$ | . . O X X O . . . . . . . X X . . . . |
$$ | . O . O X . O . . O . . . . . . O . . |
$$ | . O O O X X O . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . X X X O O X X . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . . X . O . . . , . . . . . , O . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . X . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . . , . . . . . , . . . . . , X . . |
$$ | . . . . O . . . . . . . . . X . . . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ ---------------------------------------[/go]


Hmmm ... I wonder how I missed reading that nobi?

Continuing to reduce the top.

Interesting note about my opponent's last move. Not only is it a good move, but because I missed reading it, it's also a blow to my confidence. This is the point where I might go on tilt if I'm not careful. :D

As it is, I'm going to try and ride the rags remaining of my original plan. :mrgreen:

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Post #69 Posted: Sat May 21, 2011 10:39 am 
Honinbo
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B may not have to reply to :w46: right away; all this because of the :wc: kosumi.
Click Here To Show Diagram Code
[go]$$B
$$ ----------------------------------------
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . O O X . . X . . . . . . . X O . . |
$$ | . . O X X . . . O , . . . O . X O . . |
$$ | . . O X X O . . . . . . . X X . . . . |
$$ | . O . O X . W . . O . . . . . . O . . |
$$ | . O O O X X O . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . X X X O O X X . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . . . . 2 . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . . X 1 O . . . , . . . . . , O . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . X . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |[/go]

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 Post subject: Re: 112. joppon v Marcus
Post #70 Posted: Tue May 24, 2011 7:16 pm 
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Click Here To Show Diagram Code
[go]$$Bcm41 Prisoner Count:
$$ ---------------------------------------
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . O O X . . X . . . . . . . X O . . |
$$ | . . O X X . . . O , . . . O . X O . . |
$$ | . . O X X O . . . . . . . X X . . . . |
$$ | . O . O X . O . . O . . . . . . O . . |
$$ | . O O O X X O . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . X X X O O X X . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . . X . O . . . , . . . . . , O . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . X . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . . , . . . . . , . . . . . , X . . |
$$ | . . . . O . . . . . . . . . X . . . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ ---------------------------------------[/go]


Nice move! Makes center stronger and I feel Black has to answer, living would be hard. My only problem with the position is that White can get squeezed in the center..

Click Here To Show Diagram Code
[go]$$Bcm1 Prisoner Count:
$$ ---------------------------------------
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . O O X . . X . . . . . . . X O . . |
$$ | . . O X X . . . O , . . . O . X O . . |
$$ | . . O X X O . . . . . . . X X . . . . |
$$ | . O . O X . O . . O . . . . . . O . . |
$$ | . O O O X X O . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . X X X O O X X . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . . 5 2 1 4 7 . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . . X 3 O . . . , . . . . . , O . . |
$$ | . . . . . 8 . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . X . . |
$$ | . . . 9 . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . . , . . . . . , . . . . . , X . . |
$$ | . . . . O . . . . . . . . . X . . . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ ---------------------------------------[/go]


Something like this and then White will have to struggle with his group. However this sequence isn't playable until the top is settled.

_________________
Nein Mann, ich will noch nicht gehen, ich will noch 'n bisschen tanzen.

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 Post subject: Re: 112. joppon v Marcus
Post #71 Posted: Wed May 25, 2011 5:33 am 
Dies with sente

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Click Here To Show Diagram Code
[go]$$Bcm41 Prisoner Count: :b1: :white:
$$ ---------------------------------------
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . O O X . . X 7 . . . . . . X O . . |
$$ | . . O X X . . . O , . . . O . X O . . |
$$ | . . O X X O . . . . . . . X X . . . . |
$$ | . O . O X . O . . O . . . . . . O . . |
$$ | . O O O X X O . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . X X X O O X X . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . . X . O . . . , . . . . . , O . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . X . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . . , . . . . . , . . . . . , X . . |
$$ | . . . . O . . . . . . . . . X . . . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ ---------------------------------------[/go]

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 Post subject: Re: 112. joppon v Marcus
Post #72 Posted: Wed May 25, 2011 2:18 pm 
Gosei

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Click Here To Show Diagram Code
[go]$$Bcm41 Prisoner Count: :b1: :white:
$$ ---------------------------------------
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . O O X . . X X 8 . . . . . X O . . |
$$ | . . O X X . . . O , . . . O . X O . . |
$$ | . . O X X O . . . . . . . X X . . . . |
$$ | . O . O X . O . . O . . . . . . O . . |
$$ | . O O O X X O . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . X X X O O X X . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . . X . O . . . , . . . . . , O . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . X . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . . , . . . . . , . . . . . , X . . |
$$ | . . . . O . . . . . . . . . X . . . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ ---------------------------------------[/go]


Reduce the top, make room for one of my weak White groups, and force black to crawl on the 2nd line for territory, if he continues. Note that the K16 cut is a ladder in my favor, so I don't expect my opponent to cut.

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 Post subject: Re: 112. joppon v Marcus
Post #73 Posted: Thu May 26, 2011 2:12 pm 
Dies with sente

Posts: 92
Liked others: 5
Was liked: 1
Rank: OGS 8 kyu
Click Here To Show Diagram Code
[go]$$Bcm41 Prisoner Count: :b1: :white:
$$ ---------------------------------------
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . O O X . . X X O . . . . . X O . . |
$$ | . . O X X . . 9 O , . . . O . X O . . |
$$ | . . O X X O . . . . . . . X X . . . . |
$$ | . O . O X . O . . O . . . . . . O . . |
$$ | . O O O X X O . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . X X X O O X X . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . . X . O . . . , . . . . . , O . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . X . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . . , . . . . . , . . . . . , X . . |
$$ | . . . . O . . . . . . . . . X . . . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ ---------------------------------------[/go]


Time to remove eyes. Or at least one possible eye.
This seems a likely sequence.
Click Here To Show Diagram Code
[go]$$Bcm01 Prisoner Count: :b1: :white:
$$ ---------------------------------------
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . 7 9 . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . O O X . . X X O 8 . . . . X O . . |
$$ | . . O X X . . 1 O , . . . O . X O . . |
$$ | . . O X X O . 3 2 . . . . X X . . . . |
$$ | . O . O X . O 4 6 O . . . . . . O . . |
$$ | . O O O X X O . 5 . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . X X X O O X X . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . . X . O . . . , . . . . . , O . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . X . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . . , . . . . . , . . . . . , X . . |
$$ | . . . . O . . . . . . . . . X . . . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ ---------------------------------------[/go]

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 Post subject: Re: 112. joppon v Marcus
Post #74 Posted: Thu May 26, 2011 5:15 pm 
Gosei

Posts: 1387
Liked others: 139
Was liked: 111
GD Posts: 209
KGS: Marcus316
Click Here To Show Diagram Code
[go]$$Bcm41 Prisoner Count: :b1: :white:
$$ ---------------------------------------
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . O O X . . X X O . . . . . X O . . |
$$ | . . O X X . . X O , . . . O . X O . . |
$$ | . . O X X O . . 0 . . . . X X . . . . |
$$ | . O . O X . O . . O . . . . . . O . . |
$$ | . O O O X X O . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . X X X O O X X . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . . X . O . . . , . . . . . , O . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . X . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . . , . . . . . , . . . . . , X . . |
$$ | . . . . O . . . . . . . . . X . . . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ ---------------------------------------[/go]


I thought maybe I could get away with playing K16 instead, but then Black gets the vital point at L15. The result is terrible:

Click Here To Show Diagram Code
[go]$$Bcm49 Prisoner Count: :b1: :white:
$$ ---------------------------------------
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . O O X . . X X O . . . . . X O . . |
$$ | . . O X X . . 1 O 2 . . . O . X O . . |
$$ | . . O X X O . . 3 4 . . . X X . . . . |
$$ | . O . O X . O . 5 O . . . . . . O . . |
$$ | . O O O X X O . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . X X X O O X X . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . . X . O . . . , . . . . . , O . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . X . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . . , . . . . . , . . . . . , X . . |
$$ | . . . . O . . . . . . . . . X . . . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ ---------------------------------------[/go]


And :white: is dead.

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Offline
 Post subject: Re: 112. joppon v Marcus
Post #75 Posted: Fri May 27, 2011 3:55 am 
Dies with sente

Posts: 92
Liked others: 5
Was liked: 1
Rank: OGS 8 kyu
Click Here To Show Diagram Code
[go]$$Bcm51 Prisoner Count: :b1: :white:
$$ ---------------------------------------
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . O O X . . X X O . . . . . X O . . |
$$ | . . O X X . . X O , . . . O . X O . . |
$$ | . . O X X O . . O . . . . X X . . . . |
$$ | . O . O X . O . . O . . . . . . O . . |
$$ | . O O O X X O . 1 . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . X X X O O X X . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . . X . O . . . , . . . . . , O . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . X . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . . , . . . . . , . . . . . , X . . |
$$ | . . . . O . . . . . . . . . X . . . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ ---------------------------------------[/go]


This seems better and more likely for white than the sequence in my last post. Hence my change of mind.
Click Here To Show Diagram Code
[go]$$Bcm01 Prisoner Count: :b1: :white:
$$ ---------------------------------------
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . 9 . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . O O X . . X X O . . . . . X O . . |
$$ | . . O X X . . X O , . 8 . O . X O . . |
$$ | . . O X X O . 1 O . . . . X X . . . . |
$$ | . O . O X . O 3 5 O . . . . . . O . . |
$$ | . O O O X X O 4 2 . 0 . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . X X X O O X X . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . 6 . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . . X . O . 7 . , . . . . . , O . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . X . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . . , . . . . . , . . . . . , X . . |
$$ | . . . . O . . . . . . . . . X . . . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ ---------------------------------------[/go]

Or...
Click Here To Show Diagram Code
[go]$$Bcm01 Prisoner Count: :b1: :white:
$$ ---------------------------------------
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . O O X . . X X O . . . . . X O . . |
$$ | . . O X X . . X O , . . . O . X O . . |
$$ | . . O X X O . 1 O . . . . X X . . . . |
$$ | . O . O X . O 3 5 O . . . . . . O . . |
$$ | . O O O X X O 4 2 . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . X X X O O X X . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . 6 . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . . X . O . 7 . , . . . . . , O . . |
$$ | . . . . . . 8 . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . X . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . . , . . . . . , . . . . . , X . . |
$$ | . . . . O . . . . . . . . . X . . . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ ---------------------------------------[/go]

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 Post subject: Re: 112. joppon v Marcus
Post #76 Posted: Fri May 27, 2011 4:53 am 
Gosei

Posts: 1387
Liked others: 139
Was liked: 111
GD Posts: 209
KGS: Marcus316
Click Here To Show Diagram Code
[go]$$Bcm51 Prisoner Count: :b1: :white:
$$ ---------------------------------------
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . O O X . . X X O . . . . . X O . . |
$$ | . . O X X . . X O , . . . O . X O . . |
$$ | . . O X X O . 2 O . . . . X X . . . . |
$$ | . O . O X . O . . O . . . . . . O . . |
$$ | . O O O X X O . X . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . X X X O O X X . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . . X . O . . . , . . . . . , O . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . X . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . . , . . . . . , . . . . . , X . . |
$$ | . . . . O . . . . . . . . . X . . . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ ---------------------------------------[/go]


I'm happy to get the turn like this. What will Black do next?

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 Post subject: Re: 112. joppon v Marcus
Post #77 Posted: Sat May 28, 2011 8:04 am 
Dies with sente

Posts: 92
Liked others: 5
Was liked: 1
Rank: OGS 8 kyu
Click Here To Show Diagram Code
[go]$$Bcm51 Prisoner Count: :b1: :white:
$$ ---------------------------------------
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . 3 5 . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . O O X . . X X O 4 . . . . X O . . |
$$ | . . O X X . . X O , . . . O . X O . . |
$$ | . . O X X O . O O . . . . X X . . . . |
$$ | . O . O X . O . . O . . . . . . O . . |
$$ | . O O O X X O . X . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . X X X O O X X . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . . X . O . . . , . . . . . , O . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . X . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . . , . . . . . , . . . . . , X . . |
$$ | . . . . O . . . . . . . . . X . . . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ ---------------------------------------[/go]

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 Post subject: Re: 112. joppon v Marcus
Post #78 Posted: Sun May 29, 2011 8:19 am 
Gosei

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KGS: Marcus316
I accept your trigger, and raise you one more push. :)

Click Here To Show Diagram Code
[go]$$Bcm51 Prisoner Count: :b1: :white:
$$ ---------------------------------------
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . X X . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . O O X . . X X O O 6 . . . X O . . |
$$ | . . O X X . . X O , . . . O . X O . . |
$$ | . . O X X O . O O . . . . X X . . . . |
$$ | . O . O X . O . . O . . . . . . O . . |
$$ | . O O O X X O . X . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . X X X O O X X . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . . X . O . . . , . . . . . , O . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . X . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . . , . . . . . , . . . . . , X . . |
$$ | . . . . O . . . . . . . . . X . . . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ ---------------------------------------[/go]


Black's top side is ruined now ... the question is ... ill my weak group give him enough to attack to gain a huge amount on the left now instead?

I'm going to have to see what kind of pressure he puts on my weak cutting stones, and decide what I want to do about it.

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 Post subject: Re: 112. joppon v Marcus
Post #79 Posted: Thu Jun 02, 2011 2:50 am 
Dies with sente

Posts: 92
Liked others: 5
Was liked: 1
Rank: OGS 8 kyu
Click Here To Show Diagram Code
[go]$$Bcm51 Prisoner Count: :b1: :white:
$$ ---------------------------------------
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . X X . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . O O X . . X X O O O . . . X O . . |
$$ | . . O X X . . X O , . . . O . X O . . |
$$ | . . O X X O . O O . . . . X X . . . . |
$$ | . O . O X . O . . O . . . . . . O . . |
$$ | . O O O X X O . X . 7 . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . X X X O O X X . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . . X . O . . . , . . . . . , O . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . X . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . . , . . . . . , . . . . . , X . . |
$$ | . . . . O . . . . . . . . . X . . . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ ---------------------------------------[/go]


Keeping up the pressure on white.
A 2 or 3 space jump gives white too much space to get out. So does playing at 'a'.
The area around 'b' is, I think, quite big and I'd like to get to it first.

Example 1a
Click Here To Show Diagram Code
[go]$$Bcm01 Prisoner Count: :b1: :white:
$$ ---------------------------------------
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . X X . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . O O X . . X X O O O . . . X O . . |
$$ | . . O X X . . X O , . . . O . X O . . |
$$ | . . O X X O . O O . . a . X X . . . . |
$$ | . O . O X . O . . O . . . . . . O . . |
$$ | . O O O X X O . X 2 1 5 . . . . . . . |
$$ | . X X X O O X X 7 3 4 . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . . . . . 9 . . 6 8 . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . . X 0 O . . . , . . . . . , O . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . X . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . . , . . . . . b . . . . . , X . . |
$$ | . . . . O . . . . . . . . . X . . . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ ---------------------------------------[/go]

Example 1b
Click Here To Show Diagram Code
[go]$$Bcm01 Prisoner Count: :b1: :white:
$$ ---------------------------------------
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . X X . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . O O X . . X X O O O . . . X O . . |
$$ | . . O X X . . X O , . . . O . X O . . |
$$ | . . O X X O . O O . . . . X X . . . . |
$$ | . O . O X . O . . O . . 2 . . . O . . |
$$ | . O O O X X O . X O X X . . . . . . . |
$$ | . X X X O O X X X X O . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . . . . . X . . O O . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . . X O O . 1 . , . . . . . , O . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . X . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . . , . . . . . , . . . . . , X . . |
$$ | . . . . O . . . . . . . . . X . . . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ ---------------------------------------[/go]

2 causes black some difficulty
Example 2a
Click Here To Show Diagram Code
[go]$$Bcm01 Prisoner Count: :b1: :white:
$$ ---------------------------------------
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . X X . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . O O X . . X X O O O . . . X O . . |
$$ | . . O X X . . X O , . . . O . X O . . |
$$ | . . O X X O . O O . 6 3 7 X X . . . . |
$$ | . O . O X . O . . O 5 4 2 . . . O . . |
$$ | . O O O X X O . X 8 1 . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . X X X O O X X . 9 0 . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . . X . O . . . , . . . . . , O . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . X . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . . , . . . . . , . . . . . , X . . |
$$ | . . . . O . . . . . . . . . X . . . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ ---------------------------------------[/go]

Example 2b
Click Here To Show Diagram Code
[go]$$Bcm01 Prisoner Count: :b1: :white:
$$ ---------------------------------------
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . X X . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . O O X . . X X O O O . . . X O . . |
$$ | . . O X X . . X O , . . . O . X O . . |
$$ | . . O X X O . O O . O X X X X . . . . |
$$ | . O . O X . O . . O X O O . . . O . . |
$$ | . O O O X X O . X O X 1 3 5 . . . . . |
$$ | . X X X O O X X 7 X O 2 4 . . . . . . |
$$ | . . . . . . 8 . . 6 . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . . X . O . . . , . . . . . , O . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . X . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . . , . . . . . , . . . . . , X . . |
$$ | . . . . O . . . . . . . . . X . . . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ ---------------------------------------[/go]

Black wins for sure.
Example 3a
Click Here To Show Diagram Code
[go]$$Bcm01 Prisoner Count: :b1: :white:
$$ ---------------------------------------
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . X X . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . O O X . . X X O O O . . . X O . . |
$$ | . . O X X . . X O , . . . O . X O . . |
$$ | . . O X X O . O O . . . . X X . . . . |
$$ | . O . O X . O . . O 2 3 5 . . . O . . |
$$ | . O O O X X O . X 6 1 4 . . . . . . . |
$$ | . X X X O O X X . 8 7 . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . 9 0 . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . . X . O . . . , . . . . . , O . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . X . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . . , . . . . . , . . . . . , X . . |
$$ | . . . . O . . . . . . . . . X . . . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ ---------------------------------------[/go]

Example 3b
Click Here To Show Diagram Code
[go]$$Bcm01 Prisoner Count: :b1: :white:
$$ ---------------------------------------
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . X X . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . O O X . . X X O O O . . . X O . . |
$$ | . . O X X . . X O , . . . O . X O . . |
$$ | . . O X X O . O O . . . . X X . . . . |
$$ | . O . O X . O . . O O X X . . . O . . |
$$ | . O O O X X O . X O X O . . . . . . . |
$$ | . X X X O O X X 4 O X 1 a . . . . . . |
$$ | . . . . . . 5 . 2 X O . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . . X 6 O 0 7 8 3 . . . . . , O . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . a 9 . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . X . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . . , . . . . . , . . . . . , X . . |
$$ | . . . . O . . . . . . . . . X . . . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ ---------------------------------------[/go]

Too... much... cutting. Can... not... see. :-?
Black at 'a' or 'a'. I think 'a' is better.
Whites' dragon lives and white is at least 15pts ahead; but black gets a lot of influence. White gets sente.
:tmbup:

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 Post subject: Re: 112. joppon v Marcus
Post #80 Posted: Sat Jun 04, 2011 8:57 am 
Gosei

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I'm still thinking about this one. Sorry for the delay.

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