I read online that a big source of procrastination, laziness, and stress is the thought that one "has" to do something.

If there is something you tell yourself you "have" to do, if you fail at doing it, you feel stressed and bad about yourself. I guess it's similar to what some commented in a different thread. For example, if I say that I HAVE to be 5d, it can be very frustrating when I am not doing my best to get there. Right now, for example, I am using a forum and not improving my go skill. If I HAVE to get stronger, I have reason to feel bad about myself right now.

So let's say I follow that website's advice and tell myself that I don't HAVE to do anything... Okay, fine. Maybe this takes my stress away.

But how can I ever have goals if I don't tell myself that I must do something?It seems nothing would get done. Surely people that have accomplished great things tell themselves they MUST do certain things to meet their goals?

Was what I read rubbish? Should I tell myself I have to do things or not?

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be immersed

Those are not the only two options. Ask yourself what you want to do and why instead. When you understand that the question of "have to" is irrelevant.

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FusekiLibrary, an opening library.
SGF converter tools: Wbaduk NGF to SGF | 440 go problems | Fuseki made easy | Tesuji made easy | Elementary training & Dan level testing | Dan Tutor Shortcut To Dan

Thanks for the feedback, Carl.

In regard to that, this may sound like a silly question, but how do you identify what you want to do?

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be immersed

I think one problem is that you have stress from outside sources to go which you can see from the "Where should I live thread". I think you should focus on those before adding stress to a game. You can always keep playing and getting better without a goal. Getting better would just be a nice plus. If you set the goal and fail, it will just build upon any other problems in life.

I have the same problem, but I'm working on a solution. If I have two things I "have" to do, then I'll want to procrastinate from the first by working on the second, and vice versa. It basically follows the same principle as the cat/buttered-toast levitation generator.

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KGS 4 kyu - Game Archive - Keyboard Otaku

I find that if I don't tell myself I have to do it that I end up not getting it done...

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I'm thinking...

A goal is something you want to work towards. By setting a goal, you are saying you will do the work necessary to get there. If you are not willing to do the work, then it is a dream, and not a goal. The goal may be long term or short term; the longer it is, the more steps it will have. Each step should be well-defined and measurable, but most importantly reasonable. For example, improving in Go (or, as one of your examples, reaching 5 dan); some steps will obviously include playing games. Now, you may have something along the lines of "play 300 slow games this year." Does that mean you have to play a game today? No. Tomorrow? No. It means that when you do play one of those games, it's not because you have to, it's because you want to. Now, if you find yourself putting off those slow games and ultimately fail to accomplish that step, then it obviously wasn't reasonable; redefine it, and move on.

There are very few things in life that we absolutely "have" to do. Most of what we do is because we wanted to; perhaps there was some pressure, like "finish your homework, or get an F." Well, whatever you do, it is your choice. Once you have defined your priorities, and understand the results of your choices, you should be able to accept even the "bad" consequences with little to no unnecessary stress.

Well that's the big question isn't it?

I don't know the answer, I haven't had that problem. But if you think long and hard about what you want to do and then take steps every day in that direction you would lead a very productive life. There wouldn't be the same kind of stress, or at least it would be very different, because you would know that every day you were doing what you can do in order to reach your goals.

When you have set a goal, ask yourself why you want to reach that. When you have an answer, ask yourself why again. Then ask yourself why again. At some point you come to something that is very imporant to you, that you want to do for it's own sake. The really important stuff. Or you could come to the conclusion that what you wanted to do wasn't that important in the big scheme of things. Having thought about these things makes life easier. You can say no to things that you don't value, leaving you time for things that you really care for, and you will know why you are doing the things you are doing. Where they fit in the big picture.

If you want to delve deeper into this there is probably a ton of books about it, I wouldn't know. I'd go to amazon and search for "setting goals" or something similar. But make sure it's something about the important stuff in life. Not meeting a deadline at work or something mundane like that Those things can be very important, but only as a vehicle to pursue the big stuff, like what you want to do with your life.

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FusekiLibrary, an opening library.
SGF converter tools: Wbaduk NGF to SGF | 440 go problems | Fuseki made easy | Tesuji made easy | Elementary training & Dan level testing | Dan Tutor Shortcut To Dan

I like this phrase.




Since achieving a goal requires work, as you seem to suggest, is it not natural that sometimes you must do things that you don't want to do, in order to reach your goal?



I'm not quite sure I understand how it is obvious that the goal was not reasonable. Could you elaborate on this?

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be immersed

I don't care for HAVING to do things. Living like that always has you looking at the future or the past (eg. I should have done that...). I believe there's sort of that spark you wouldn't get otherwise when you believe that the thing you're aiming to do is already done by the fact that you've decided to do it. Like if you have made a goal to get to 5d, live like and believe you're already 5d because the only thing standing in the way is just some time. Meditate for a while on it and see that you're going to become 5d no matter what, and nothing can stand in your way, only a matter of time. After long enough, you'll see what I mean by already considering yourself 5d.

I haven't done this with go, but I have decided certain things in other situations in this manner. Logically, you'd probably think it only increases procrastination to believe something is already done when you've decided to do it, but the opposite happens. Planting the seed that something is inevitable (it has to be something you're passionate about) only makes you more excited working towards it, and the closer you get the more you reinforce the belief.

It also helps you live in the present, which is really all we have. Instead of HAVING to reach 5d--in the future, you are reaching 5d.

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TucsonGo.org - Play Go in Tucson
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See, you're already pressuring yourself!

What I meant is that while you have set a specific number of games to play, you have not set in advance when they must be played; that is something you choose as you go along. You could wait until September to get started, if you so chose. But even more importantly, you're the one that set that number of games to play; not because you have to play that many a year, but because you want to play that many.



Maybe I was a little dramatic. However, let's say you fail to accomplish this part of the goal. You only played 250 of those 300 games. Well, let's look at why you may have failed. A few possible reasons come to mind; time, motivation, perhaps lack of opponents. All these things need to be taken into account when you set the goal, or at least approximated if it is the first time setting the goal.

A hugely important note: Failure is not bad. It is an opportunity to improve. You may have failed on this year's goals; if you take the time to figure out why, you can set a new goal next year that pushes you, but is also attainable (260-275 games sounds reasonable). Also, if you find yourself horrendously out of your depth with a certain goal, it's okay to redefine it. If it September, and you've only played 10 games all year, you probably won't be reaching 300. Maybe you can still reach 100 by the end of the year. Or, let's say it's the opposite. It's September and you just finished your 300th game. Maybe you can reach 400 games by the end of the year.

While your final goal (5 dan) may not change, none of the steps towards that goal are written in stone, and should be altered along the way, such that they are neither too easy, nor too difficult.

Perhaps change your goals. Instead of quantifying improvement, choose a goal that is entirely within your control. For example, 'Saturday, I will play two games on KGS, and review one/both'. Easy to know if you passed or failed. If you can focus on achieving those goals, perhaps you can de-emphasize whether you won or lost. Or you can set a goal of 'The next time I am black, I am going to try an opening I've never used before'.

Perhaps you could try doing one of the go journals? Whether it's public or private, you could select short-term goals like these at the beginning of the week, and track how many you accomplish. While some people seem to have success with this and others don't, it's something worth trying, and it seems to involve a different focus than what you seem to have had, previously?

Yes, this is similar to what LocoRon suggested (just try to play games, rather than win them), but it can be nice to think in a shorter, more manageable period. (I reread his posts after writing most of this, and realized that I had misunderstood, and this post ends up agreeing more than posting new ideas).

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Someday I want to be strong enough to earn KGS[-].

Thank you for the thoughtful response. I think that your points seem like good ideas, and they're also consistent. If I may ask for one more elaboration, how do you determine if something is "too easy" or "too difficult" by looking at the task?

To consider an example, suppose that I want to do push-ups to meet some goal that I have. It could very well be challenging to do 85 push-ups in a row. Maybe it seems impossible to do 1000 in a row right now. So perhaps I set a goal of 100 push-ups.

Let's say that 100 push-ups is feasible. Could I do 101 push-ups instead? If I could do 100 push-ups, then certainly I could do 101. But if I could do 101, I could certainly do 102.

How do you draw the line? Where do you determine what is the "right" amount? In the example, how might I find the appropriate number of push-ups to do each day?

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be immersed

Well, this might be better posted to someone familiar with physical workouts.

But, by my theory, it should be incremental. Using your example of push-ups. First, you'll do as many push ups as you can, to the point that you literally can't do any more. Let's say this is 105. If you want to build your muscles, perhaps you'll be trying to do this number everyday for a week, and then next week try to do five more each day. If you want to tone your muscles, try to do 100 every day for a week, and then five more the next week (or maybe next month). If you can do that, great. (Disclaimer: This is one of those things where you very well might end up injuring yourself if you try doing too much, so I wouldn't try this workout without consulting someone that is more familiar with such activities than I am.)

Anyway, a good goal (whether it is its own goal, or part of a larger goal), generally speaking, should push you just a little past your comfort zone, until you become comfortable with this new limit, and then push you just a little beyond that, until you reach a point that you can no longer cross.

kirby,

i wish you simply enjoy the game of go.
you can have fun even if you lose.

i have seen many many people who want to improve and study hard and play everyday.
they all became strong dan and you will also become one of them.
i see that you have to "want" and all you need to do is study and play and enjoy.
you are 1D now and it is not going to be that easy to improve to next level
but if you work at it i am sure you will reach 5D.
meanwhile just enjoy this game and let 5D come to you.

fyi, i was 1D (probably same as you) and it took me 10 years to be where i am.
i think i am at same rank for past 10 years (may be 1/2 stone stronger).

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"The more we think we know about
The greater the unknown"
Words by neil peart, music by geddy lee and alex lifeson

For myself, I found that if I tell myself that I "have" to study, then this study is
a) not as effective as it could or should be
b) I will lose the joy in Go as I will get negative feelings when I think about Go
c) eventually I will take a break from Go in order to get back that joy

So, now I am studying more moderately. If I notice that something inside me says "No, I don't want to study now", then I will respect that and do something that I like instead.

I find that my studies are more effective that way.

I think we can only devote so much energy into Go, the rest of it has to be put into some other things like job, school, whatever. If we try to put more energy into Go than we have available, we will fail.

After all, the primary goal when playing Go is to have fun. The time we spend with Go should be enjoyable.

And if you are setting yourself some goals for improvement, you better set those goals in a realistic way. Otherwise, you cannot succeed.

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Stay out of my territory! (W. White, aka Heisenberg)

Perhaps you need to meditate on your sig a bit more. You appear so consumed and worried about moving the giant redwood and lake that you've forgotten you have a perfectly good axe and bucket setting beside you. And a walk through the woods can be nice when all you need to worry about is your next step.

For me, I may like or want to be 5D, but I have to get to 8k first. Perhaps I'll just try to play 10 points stronger at my next game. But I'll do it because I want to improve in a game I enjoy, not because I need to.

Time to add my own thoughts, for whatever they are worth. Disclaimer: In reading this thread, many people have said valuable things. If I end up repeating or paraphrasing, forgive me. I don't want to keep going back with "... and like so-and-so said...".

First, I read Kirby's original post more broadly than just relating to Go. (After all, it's in "Off Topic".) So that's how I'll respond...


Ultimately, I suppose this is true... the source of those things is pretty much always a thought process of some sort -- perhaps more so if we include emotional thoughts.


Goals are useful, but as was pointed out, failure isn't a bad thing. In fact, I find people too often add too much stigma to failing to reach a goal. My teen daughter is like this -- beats herself mercilessly for failures in schoolwork.

Regarding goals, one of my favorite lines is the title of a book I have: "The Path Is The Goal". Especially for something like Go, I find this is very accurate.


Probably. Most crap written about this kind of stuff (including this post) is rubbish.


If you have to do something, sure, tell yourself that. And at the same time, look at these "have to do" things in a different light. Also, put the "want to do" things in a similar light. Here's how I look at them...

This is something I think I may have mentioned another time, possibly on GD. But a friend years ago gave me this model for how to look at life. In essence, at every moment, there are many "have to's" and/or "want to's" that pull on us. I have to fix dinner; I want to sleep; I have to go to work; I want to read a book... All of these things are like rubber bands pulling us in one direction or another. What we do at any time is just the total sum of all these forces. Each rubber band changes at different times; some stretch tighter and pull harder, some loosen.

When I awake in the morning, there's a pretty strong rubber band that tries to keep me in bed. But there's a stronger rubber band that makes me want to get up and go to work. In the evening, that "go to work" force is pretty relaxed. Other rubber bands take over.

Now, for laziness and procrastination: These are just more rubber bands. Those are the rubber bands that represent your desire to take it easy, to not exert yourself. That's all. How strong is that force relative to your "have to" rubber band? The answer to that tells what you will do. Avoidance of something is another rubber band: "yuck... I don't want to do the dishes!"

So, when you notice that laziness or whatever, all you can do is observe whats going on -- notice what forces are acting on you -- and then choose what to do.

Ah... what a load of rubbish!

I've heard this idea of not thinking about "having" to do things before, and I like it. Maybe it's not a huge thing that will change your life, but I prefer the mindset. I am a terrible procrastinator, both for mundane tasks (I need to take trash out to the curb and shower before bed) and big picture things.

Some tasks are enjoyable to do, but you still end up procrastinating. Maybe go is like this for you. Reading philosophy and writing are that way for me. I found that it was better to think about that enjoyment, and focus on the activity itself, rather than thinking "I have to write x pages". If it works, you end up thinking of the activity itself as something you want to do and want to do right now, instead of trying to motivate yourself by hanging the sword over your head.

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Occupy Babel!

Thank you, everyone. I think that I have identified what I "have" to do, now

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be immersed