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 Post subject: Re: KGS homophobia?
Post #81 Posted: Fri Jun 29, 2012 4:58 pm 
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I personally think that the admins made the right call on this one, without any doubt. (This doesn't mean that I agree on the rule of not allowing sex, religious, political,... related names, which I'm indifferent... but I accept that save a lot flame wars).


As the user should know "lezanime" is more used in reference to "Yuri" (lesbian anime pornography) than "Shojou Ai" (lesbian romance anime, sometimes with soft eroticism), the intention of the user could be otherwise (no doubt about that), but the appearance for most of the users that see this nickname would be just... something with sexual connotations.

It happens the same with "Hentai" which in fact, in Japan, its first meaning [変態] is not porn related... it just mean "metamorphosis/transformation" (http://ja.wikipedia.org/wiki/%E5%A4%89%E6%85%8B), the second meaning is "pervert/perversion" and the final one is "anime porn". And the same with "Ecchi", that it literally means "H" (and it's used in spelling words), but can be used as substitute of "Erotic" or even with not Japanese words... you can be a big fan of XXX, the spy films of Vin Disel... but in lot of countries "XXX" is a euphemism for "porn content". But is obvious to everyone that this names should be banned and it is not an homophobic/dictatorial behaivour.


So, in this case, the important thing is what image will first come to the general public's mind playing in KGS when they see your nickname in a game (or equivalently they see when type it on Google).



Best think that he can do is to choose a main character's name, like daal suggested

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 Post subject: Re: KGS homophobia?
Post #82 Posted: Fri Jun 29, 2012 5:01 pm 
Oza
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Sorry, I'm not buying the "if porn comes up when you google the user name" excuse. I just plugged a couple of well-known kgs user names into Google Images; suffice to say I had to close the window very quickly. The problem must have originally been the reference to lesbianism.

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 Post subject: Re: KGS homophobia?
Post #83 Posted: Fri Jun 29, 2012 9:21 pm 
Judan
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jts wrote:
Sorry, I'm not buying the "if porn comes up when you google the user name" excuse. I just plugged a couple of well-known kgs user names into Google Images; suffice to say I had to close the window very quickly. The problem must have originally been the reference to lesbianism.


I tried several, and got nothing that I couldn't show to my grandmother. For some reason, Google must be inferring that you have a preference for porn. :lol:

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 Post subject: Re: KGS homophobia?
Post #84 Posted: Fri Jun 29, 2012 10:14 pm 
Oza
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jts wrote:
Sorry, I'm not buying the "if porn comes up when you google the user name" excuse. I just plugged a couple of well-known kgs user names into Google Images; suffice to say I had to close the window very quickly. The problem must have originally been the reference to lesbianism.


If that was the case, don't you think that it might have been due more to the reference to sexuality per se than specifically lesbian sexuality? It's probably a bit uptight to go around googling every sex related word (google must be somebody's nightmare), but it's not unexpected. The zealous and giddy American impulse to censor all aspects of sexuality and verbally beat around the bush is what forces many websites to put mechanisms in place that cause the red lights to flash. This isn't homophobia; it's just regular old sexophobia.

edit: Ah, wait a sec. I see what you're saying. That among the slew of sex-charged nicknames on KGS, giseki, a gay person, has gotten singled out. Hm. Without knowing how apparent these other references are (and not everyone is well versed in porn-speak), it's hard to judge. But as wms pointed out, if it's obvious to the admins that someone's nick is related to sexuality, then that person should surely be treated the same as giseki was (which is not to say that this is a good way to treat anybody, but as BigDoug pointed out, we don't have all the details). If this isn't the case, and lezanime gets boot-threatened while a non-gay sex-nick user doesn't, then indeed, it's possible that a double standard is being applied.

edit 2: As far as googling images is concerned, it's probably hard to find something innocuous enough that it doesn't bring up porn - or something even weirder. To test your thesis, the first kgs nick I image-googled brought up this: (KGS name not mentioned to prevent permanent mental association - warning: not sexually explicit, but really weird)
[admin]
Image deleted because it is in violation of the TOS
-JB
[/admin]


P.S. If an admin feels the need to delete it, have fun explaining why :lol:

[admin]
It was not sexually explicit only because of the cleverness of the photographer and the angle of the shot. It was highly suggestive in ways that are hard to articulate, and which turn my stomach when I try. It may not have been in violation of the letter of the TOS, but it violated the spirit of the TOS with room to spare.
-JB
[/admin]

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 Post subject: Re: KGS homophobia?
Post #85 Posted: Sat Jun 30, 2012 2:57 pm 
Judan

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I was rather, erm what's the word, bemused when someone told me recently that the top google result for my username is a gay porn blog. Thankfully a few of the other hits are actually about me.

P.S. Why does everyone continue to refer to giseki as a she/gay? He revealed his name is Greg which is afaik only a male name, so seems it's a guy turned on by lesbians. Nothing wrong with that, but not really suitable to advertise as your KGS username ;-)

P.P.S. L19 needs more SEO to knock that porn blog off #1!

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 Post subject: Re: KGS homophobia?
Post #86 Posted: Sat Jun 30, 2012 3:59 pm 
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Yea I mean the name in the context is not okay, but once again, you wouldn't think anything bad from the name "lezanime" or even his description.

The google excuse is pathetic, you can google even the names of admins like bigdoug and sweety... find some bad pics in the pictures section somewhere. Terrible excuse to make someone rename.

Also as was stated in the chat with the Moderator, he asked if it was because the name suggested adult content (which it doesn't) and the GM said no.

I think that should be investigated.

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 Post subject: Re: KGS homophobia?
Post #87 Posted: Sun Jul 01, 2012 7:19 am 
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finally, the matter has been put to rest...

Hello,

After you raised your concerns on the 19x19 site, you would have seen
the discussion play out there. Several people have pointed out various
unpleasant aspects of the name lezanime and a decision has been made
to block its use on KGS.

A suggestion was made that you simply use an account name associated
with your favourite anime characters. Hopefully this should resolve
any future difficulties. I'm glad that you recognise that references
to inappropriate anime shouldn't be repeated on KGS.

We hope that you enjoy playing go on KGS.

Regards,
Doug

After reading about others googling lezanime and finding porn it's not too surprising that this decision was made... however i still, somewhat, question the context of the initial ban and Doug's tone when he banned me.
It is without question that BigDoug asked me what the name lezanime meant to which i replied lesbian anime. It's at that point he gave me the choice to either change the name or be banned. Unless he thought that all lesbian anime amounted to porn, a question i have asked a number of times but still not received an answer, it's an unjustified reaction.

Anyways whether KGS admin/moderators harbour rascists, homophobes, warfreaks or whatever...no hard feelings.

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 Post subject: Re: KGS homophobia?
Post #88 Posted: Sun Jul 01, 2012 10:01 am 
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NoSkill wrote:
Yea I mean the name in the context is not okay, but once again, you wouldn't think anything bad from the name "lezanime" or even his description.

The google excuse is pathetic, you can google even the names of admins like bigdoug and sweety... find some bad pics in the pictures section somewhere. Terrible excuse to make someone rename...


Sure, if you search deep enough in google results with safe search off you can find porn for any word. But a quick search of 'lezanime' showed only porn or highly suggestive photos ( with the odd exception of a KGS rank chart. ) And even those merely suggestive photos mostly seem to lead to porn sites.

I agree with Big Doug here. There is a difference between a name that returns 1% porn and one that returns 99% porn.

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 Post subject: Re: KGS homophobia?
Post #89 Posted: Sun Jul 01, 2012 10:48 am 
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giseki wrote:
Anyways whether KGS admin/moderators harbour rascists, homophobes, warfreaks or whatever...no hard feelings.


Estrange... Quite a long succession of insults to the KGS admins & moderators in this forum have you done, just to end with a "no hard feelings" :scratch:.

I hope not, because was interesting read the opinions of both parties of the KGS rule disagreement (in very good terms until now), but be aware that you can get banned from L19 for things like this (or get a warning, the first time). L19 Rules

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 Post subject: Re: KGS homophobia?
Post #90 Posted: Sun Jul 01, 2012 11:00 am 
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A PS for a couple of opinions i objected to...

Uberdude wrote:
Why does everyone continue to refer to giseki as a she/gay? He revealed his name is Greg which is afaik only a male name, so seems it's a guy turned on by lesbians. Nothing wrong with that, but not really suitable to advertise as your KGS username ;-)


I am a guy but you don't know me and don't assume you do.

Ellyster wrote:


As the user should know "lezanime" is more used in reference to "Yuri" (lesbian anime pornography) than "Shojou Ai" (lesbian romance anime, sometimes with soft eroticism), the intention of the user could be otherwise (no doubt about that), but the appearance for most of the users that see this nickname would be just... something with sexual connotations.


Again... not correct. I've never actually heard anybody using the term lezanime before but as for yuri and shoujo ai...

Quick quote from wikipedia "Maria-sama ga Miteru is considered representative of yuri novels." That should clear up any thoughts that Yuri=lesbian anime pornography.

In fact Yuri is a broad genre of which shoujo ai(girl love) is a small but popular part. However I can see that perhaps lezanime can be seen as "something with sexual connotations" so i have dropped my initial objections.

Ellyster wrote:
Quite a long succession of insults to the KGS admins & moderators in this forum have you done, just to end with a "no hard feelings" .


sorry, that was an attempt at a joke :oops: ...honestly no hard feelings

Finally Lesbian Anime and Manga is a fabulous, cute, unique and interesting genre that all should know about. I can't say the same about male homosexual anime and manga because as a genre it contains far too much rape :shock: (a problem that appears in far too much manga/anime imo)

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 Post subject: Re: KGS homophobia?
Post #91 Posted: Sun Jul 01, 2012 1:58 pm 
Lives with ko

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Joaz Banbeck wrote:
NoSkill wrote:
Yea I mean the name in the context is not okay, but once again, you wouldn't think anything bad from the name "lezanime" or even his description.

The google excuse is pathetic, you can google even the names of admins like bigdoug and sweety... find some bad pics in the pictures section somewhere. Terrible excuse to make someone rename...


Sure, if you search deep enough in google results with safe search off you can find porn for any word. But a quick search of 'lezanime' showed only porn or highly suggestive photos ( with the odd exception of a KGS rank chart. ) And even those merely suggestive photos mostly seem to lead to porn sites.

I agree with Big Doug here. There is a difference between a name that returns 1% porn and one that returns 99% porn.


I disagree. You can find many harmless names come up with that stuff. Even some high dans.

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 Post subject: Re: KGS homophobia?
Post #92 Posted: Sun Jul 01, 2012 4:49 pm 
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What my Googling of the name got me.

http://dictionary.reference.com/browse/lez

lez 
noun, plural lez·zes. Slang: Disparaging and Offensive .
a lesbian.

giseki wrote:
Finally Lesbian Anime and Manga is a fabulous, cute, unique and interesting genre that all should know about. I can't say the same about male homosexual anime and manga because as a genre it contains far too much rape :shock: (a problem that appears in far too much manga/anime imo)


Since this is a LGBT rights thread, I would like to know if any lesbian consider this type of anime offensive?

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 Post subject: Re: KGS homophobia?
Post #93 Posted: Sun Jul 01, 2012 5:52 pm 
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Google results are really unpredictable. I looked at the image results in private browsing mode, I see three lines for the image section without scrolling down. All people mentioned are cartoons unless specified. I count identical photos multiple times (e.g. the 4x line).

Those are:
2x porn
1x non-nude cartoon erotica
1x two girls talking while one bathes. No frontal nudity, slightly more explicit than what would appear on TV (bath scenes between couples are still common, but the non-bather is usually fully dressed).
2x somewhat suggestively posed cartoon characters
4x passionately embracing girls--could be erotic in context, but could also appear on prime time TV.*
3x miscellaneous cartoon characters, nothing suggestive.
1x two girls in bed, as if preparing to sleep. borderline prime time TV*
1x "love is love" icon
1x random dude with a headband

------ (off topic stuff)
1x what looks like a convention, street fair or protest
1x some official looking real life dudes walking around.
1x some real life dudes dancing. Music video, maybe?
1x real life dude sitting on a box.
1x kgs rank graph

* Couples in bed on TV are almost always wearing full pajamas, showing 1/1000th of the skin they would while walking around during the day on the exact same TV shows. But these two girls are only showing their arms and legs below the knees. So it breaks one of the taboos/conventions of TV, but is arguably less provocative than what those TV shows do show.

...I did not expect this post to take this long.

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 Post subject: Re: KGS homophobia?
Post #94 Posted: Mon Jul 02, 2012 1:08 pm 
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Giseki wrote:
Ellyster wrote:

As the user should know "lezanime" is more used in reference to "Yuri" (lesbian anime pornography) than "Shojou Ai" (lesbian romance anime, sometimes with soft eroticism), the intention of the user could be otherwise (no doubt about that), but the appearance for most of the users that see this nickname would be just... something with sexual connotations.


Again... not correct. I've never actually heard anybody using the term lezanime before but as for yuri and shoujo ai...

Quick quote from wikipedia "Maria-sama ga Miteru is considered representative of yuri novels." That should clear up any thoughts that Yuri=lesbian anime pornography.

In fact Yuri is a broad genre of which shoujo ai(girl love) is a small but popular part. However I can see that perhaps lezanime can be seen as "something with sexual connotations" so i have dropped my initial objections.



Just a note...

Outside of Japan: Yuri == Lesbian porn (with explicit sex) and Shojou-ai == Lesbian romance (without sex), in side of Japan, it used to be different... as you say Yuri == Lesbian romance/porn (both) and Shojou-ai == lolicon...

But, as a person who lives and studies in Japan (and before of that worked in manga-anime-culture events for several years) I can tell you that the usage of the word is changing in Japan to adapt the regular western usage... now (since quite yers ago), probably because the usage of internet, publishers use "Girls' Love" (ガールズラブ) as the general term, and yuri is getting more and more slang, and for the average Japanese guy it's related only with porn.

As you can see... "Girls' Love" (ガールズラブ) and "shojou-ai" has the same meaning (girl + love), but publishers needed to put it in English in their magazines as the Japanese word was related with "Lolita complex" in Japan.



Don't trust too much the wikipedia in English, cause the use of this kind of Japanese words it is always really really old, as the dictionaries tends to change very slowly (but the Japanese language doesn't).

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