Topazg vs. Yithril

topazg · Post by **topazg** » Sun Jul 15, 2012 1:34 pm

Click Here To Show Diagram Code: [go]$$Bcm21 Prisoners: $$ --------------------------------------- $$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . | $$ | . . X . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . | $$ | . O X O . X . . . . . . . 6 . . . . . | $$ | . . O X X . . . . , . 7 . . . X . . . | $$ | . . O O O 1 3 5 . . . . . . . . . . . | $$ | . . X . . 2 4 . . . . . . . . . . . . | $$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . | $$ | . . O . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . | $$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . | $$ | . . . , . . . . . , . . . . . , . . . | $$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . X . . . | $$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . | $$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . | $$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . | $$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . | $$ | . . . O . . . . . O . . O . X , . . . | $$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . X . . . | $$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . | $$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . | $$ ---------------------------------------[/go]

I actually thought quite hard about what to play here. I think a pincer feels like the only natural move with the position I have in the top left/top, and because I want to be all fighty about it, a tight pincer seems to make sense. I was really torn between low and high though, and I chose high because I think I'd rather White lived by being pressed low and develop the outside so I can take advantage of moves like "a". I also dislike the fact that, if White jumps out, I really want to jump out with my pincering stone too, but a response from the corner is too urgent to do so - a high pincer makes it hard for White to find a severe followup after he's jumped out and I've responded with a corner move. If White takes the 3-3 I'm pretty happy with the position I can generate in either case, although I'll have to think carefully about how to handle a counter pincer.

Click Here To Show Diagram Code: [go]$$Bcm21 Prisoners: $$ --------------------------------------- $$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . | $$ | . . X . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . | $$ | . O X O . X . . . . . . . 6 . . . . . | $$ | . . O X X . . . . , . 7 . . . X . . . | $$ | . . O O O 1 3 5 . . . . . . . . . . . | $$ | . . X . . 2 4 a . . . . . . . . . . . | $$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . | $$ | . . O . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . | $$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . | $$ | . . . , . . . . . , . . . . . , . . . | $$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . X . . . | $$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . | $$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . | $$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . | $$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . | $$ | . . . O . . . . . O . . O . X , . . . | $$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . X . . . | $$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . | $$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . | $$ ---------------------------------------[/go]

yithril · Post by **yithril** » Mon Jul 16, 2012 7:04 am

Click Here To Show Diagram Code: [go]$$Bcm21 Prisoners: $$ --------------------------------------- $$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . | $$ | . . X . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . | $$ | . O X O . X . . . . . . . 6 . . 8 . . | $$ | . . O X X . . . . , . 7 . . . X . . . | $$ | . . O O O 1 3 5 . . . . . . . . . . . | $$ | . . X . . 2 4 . . . . . . . . . . . . | $$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . | $$ | . . O . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . | $$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . | $$ | . . . , . . . . . , . . . . . , . . . | $$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . X . . . | $$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . | $$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . | $$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . | $$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . | $$ | . . . O . . . . . O . . O . X , . . . | $$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . X . . . | $$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . | $$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . | $$ ---------------------------------------[/go]

Okay so he played the pincer one higher than I thought he would. It's all good.

Click Here To Show Diagram Code: [go]$$Wcm1 Prisoners: $$ --------------------------------------- $$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . | $$ | . . X . . . . . . . . . . . . 3 . . . | $$ | . O X O . X . . . . . 6 4 O . . 7 . . | $$ | . . O X X . . . . , . X 5 . . X . . . | $$ | . . O O O X X X . . . . . 1 . . . . . | $$ | . . X . . O O . . . . . . . . 2 . . . | $$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . | $$ | . . O . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . | $$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . | $$ | . . . , . . . . . , . . . . . , . . . | $$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . X . . . | $$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . | $$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . | $$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . | $$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . | $$ | . . . O . . . . . O . . O . X , . . . | $$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . X . . . | $$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . | $$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . | $$ ---------------------------------------[/go]

I wasn't too enthused about this although it might be a perfectly fine variation.

Click Here To Show Diagram Code: [go]$$Wcm1 Prisoners: $$ --------------------------------------- $$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . | $$ | . . X . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . | $$ | . O X O . X . . . . . . 7 O . 3 1 5 . | $$ | . . O X X . . . . , . X 8 6 4 X 2 . . | $$ | . . O O O X X X . . . . . . . . . . . | $$ | . . X . . O O . . . . . . . . . . . . | $$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . | $$ | . . O . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . | $$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . | $$ | . . . , . . . . . , . . . . . , . . . | $$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . X . . . | $$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . | $$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . | $$ | . . . a . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . | $$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . | $$ | . . . O . . . . . O . . O . X , . . . | $$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . X . . . | $$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . | $$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . | $$ ---------------------------------------[/go]

This is my plan so I can take sente. I would then play at A next to strengthen my moyo.

topazg · Post by **topazg** » Mon Jul 16, 2012 7:37 am

Click Here To Show Diagram Code: [go]$$Bcm21 Prisoners: $$ --------------------------------------- $$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . | $$ | . . X . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . | $$ | . O X O . X . . . . . . . 6 . 9 8 . . | $$ | . . O X X . . . . , . 7 . . . X . . . | $$ | . . O O O 1 3 5 . . . . . . . . . . . | $$ | . . X . . 2 4 . . . . . . . . . . . . | $$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . | $$ | . . O . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . | $$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . | $$ | . . . , . . . . . , . . . . . , . . . | $$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . X . . . | $$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . | $$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . | $$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . | $$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . | $$ | . . . O . . . . . O . . O . X , . . . | $$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . X . . . | $$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . | $$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . | $$ ---------------------------------------[/go]

Ok, I wondered if he'd take the 3-3. I now need to have a look at whether I need to play the reinforcing move at the end of the joseki (normal I believe with the higher pincer, but my thickness may make it not necessary yet:

Click Here To Show Diagram Code: [go]$$Bcm31 Prisoners: $$ --------------------------------------- $$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . | $$ | . . X . . . . . . . . . . . 3 2 4 . . | $$ | . O X O . X . . . . . . . O 5 X O . . | $$ | . . O X X . . . . , . X . a . X W . . | $$ | . . O O O X X X . . . . . . . 1 . . . | $$ | . . X . . O O 7 . . . . . . . . 6 . . | $$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . | $$ | . . O . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . | $$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . | $$ | . . . , . . . . . , . . . . . , . . . | $$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . X . . . | $$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . | $$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . | $$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . | $$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . | $$ | . . . O . . . . . O . . O . X , . . . | $$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . X . . . | $$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . | $$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . | $$ ---------------------------------------[/go]

The question for me is whether I can play this :b37:

instead of "a". I'm trying to play more calmly these days, so I'll have a good look when we get there. Either way, this seems ok to me?

yithril · Post by **yithril** » Mon Jul 16, 2012 7:44 am

Click Here To Show Diagram Code: [go]$$Bcm21 Prisoners: $$ --------------------------------------- $$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . | $$ | . . X . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . | $$ | . O X O . X . . . . . . . 6 . 9 8 . . | $$ | . . O X X . . . . , . 7 . . . X 0 . . | $$ | . . O O O 1 3 5 . . . . . . . . . . . | $$ | . . X . . 2 4 . . . . . . . . . . . . | $$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . | $$ | . . O . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . | $$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . | $$ | . . . , . . . . . , . . . . . , . . . | $$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . X . . . | $$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . | $$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . | $$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . | $$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . | $$ | . . . O . . . . . O . . O . X , . . . | $$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . X . . . | $$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . | $$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . | $$ ---------------------------------------[/go]

topazg · Post by **topazg** » Mon Jul 16, 2012 8:11 am

Click Here To Show Diagram Code: [go]$$Bcm31 Prisoners: $$ --------------------------------------- $$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . | $$ | . . X . . . . . . . . . . . 3 2 4 . . | $$ | . O X O . X . . . . . . . O 5 X O . . | $$ | . . O X X . . . . , . X . . . X O . . | $$ | . . O O O X X X . . . . . . . 1 . . . | $$ | . . X . . O O . . . . . . . . . . . . | $$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . | $$ | . . O . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . | $$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . | $$ | . . . , . . . . . , . . . . . , . . . | $$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . X . . . | $$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . | $$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . | $$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . | $$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . | $$ | . . . O . . . . . O . . O . X , . . . | $$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . X . . . | $$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . | $$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . | $$ ---------------------------------------[/go]

Let me know if you want to deviate

yithril · Post by **yithril** » Mon Jul 16, 2012 4:55 pm

Click Here To Show Diagram Code: [go]$$Bcm31 Prisoners: $$ --------------------------------------- $$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . | $$ | . . X . . . . . . . . . . . 3 2 4 . . | $$ | . O X O . X . . . . . . . O 5 X O . . | $$ | . . O X X . . . . , . X . . . X O . . | $$ | . . O O O X X X . . . . . . . 1 . . . | $$ | . . X . . O O . . . . . . . . . 6 . . | $$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . | $$ | . . O . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . | $$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . | $$ | . . . , . . . . . , . . . . . , . . . | $$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . X . . . | $$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . | $$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . | $$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . | $$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . | $$ | . . . O . . . . . O . . O . X , . . . | $$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . X . . . | $$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . | $$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . | $$ ---------------------------------------[/go]

Ball's in your court

topazg · Post by **topazg** » Tue Jul 17, 2012 1:09 am

Click Here To Show Diagram Code: [go]$$Bcm31 Prisoners: $$ --------------------------------------- $$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . | $$ | . . X . . . . . . . . . . . 3 2 4 . . | $$ | . O X O . X . . . . . . . O 5 X O . . | $$ | . . O X X . . . . , . X . 7 . X O . . | $$ | . . O O O X X X . . . . . . . 1 . . . | $$ | . . X . . O O . . . . . . . . . 6 . . | $$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . | $$ | . . O . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . | $$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . | $$ | . . . , . . . . . , . . . . . , . . . | $$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . X . . . | $$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . | $$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . | $$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . | $$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . | $$ | . . . O . . . . . O . . O . X , . . . | $$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . X . . . | $$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . | $$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . | $$ ---------------------------------------[/go]

Patiently does it. The top is important to me, I don't want him to split my group:

Click Here To Show Diagram Code: [go]$$Bcm31 Prisoners: $$ --------------------------------------- $$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . 9 . . . . | $$ | . . X . . . . . . . . . . 8 3 2 4 . . | $$ | . O X O . X . . . . . . . O 5 X O . . | $$ | . . O X X . . . . , . X . . . X O . . | $$ | . . O O O X X X . . . . . 0 . 1 . . . | $$ | . . X . . O O . . . . . . . . . 6 . . | $$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . | $$ | . . O . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . | $$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . | $$ | . . . , . . . . . , . . . . . , . . . | $$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . X . . . | $$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . | $$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . | $$ | . . 7 . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . | $$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . | $$ | . . . O . . . . . O . . O . X , . . . | $$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . X . . . | $$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . | $$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . | $$ ---------------------------------------[/go]

And letting him connect underneath is sente when I've chosen this pincer:

Click Here To Show Diagram Code: [go]$$Bcm31 Prisoners: $$ --------------------------------------- $$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . 0 . . . . | $$ | . . X . . . . . . . . . . 8 3 2 4 . . | $$ | . O X O . X . . . . . . a O 5 X O . . | $$ | . . O X X . . . . , . X . 9 . X O . . | $$ | . . O O O X X X . . . . . . . 1 . . . | $$ | . . X . . O O . . . . . . . . . 6 . . | $$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . | $$ | . . O . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . | $$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . | $$ | . . . , . . . . . , . . . . . , . . . | $$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . X . . . | $$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . | $$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . | $$ | . . 7 . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . | $$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . | $$ | . . . O . . . . . O . . O . X , . . . | $$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . X . . . | $$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . | $$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . | $$ ---------------------------------------[/go]

yithril · Post by **yithril** » Tue Jul 17, 2012 1:29 pm

Click Here To Show Diagram Code: [go]$$Bcm31 Prisoners: $$ --------------------------------------- $$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . | $$ | . . X . . . . . . . . . . . 3 2 4 . . | $$ | . O X O . X . . . . . . . O 5 X O . . | $$ | . . O X X . . . . , . X . 7 . X O . . | $$ | . . O O O X X X . . . . . . . 1 . . . | $$ | . . X . . O O . . . . . . . . . 6 . . | $$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . | $$ | . . O . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . | $$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . | $$ | . . . , . . . . . , . . . . . , . . . | $$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . X . . . | $$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . | $$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . | $$ | . . . 8 . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . | $$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . | $$ | . . . O . . . . . O . . O . X , . . . | $$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . X . . . | $$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . | $$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . | $$ ---------------------------------------[/go]

Wow, so I do get sente. Wow. I didn't expect him to finish the joseki because he's so thick on the upper left...

Click Here To Show Diagram Code: [go]$$Bcm1 Prisoners: $$ --------------------------------------- $$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . 4 3 5 . . . . | $$ | . . X . . . . . . . . . . 2 X O O . . | $$ | . O X O . X . . . . . . . O X X O . . | $$ | . . O X X . . . . , . X . . . X O . . | $$ | . . O O O X X X . . . . . 6 . X . . . | $$ | . . X . . O O . . . . . . . . 7 O . . | $$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . 9 8 . . | $$ | . . O . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . | $$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . | $$ | . . . , . . . . . , . . . . . , . . . | $$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . X . . . | $$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . | $$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . | $$ | . . 1 . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . | $$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . | $$ | . . . O . . . . . O . . O . X , . . . | $$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . X . . . | $$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . | $$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . | $$ ---------------------------------------[/go]

I guess he doesn't like this fight all that much. Hmm, I don't feel so great as White necessarily as it'll take me a LONG time to live with this group and Black is stronger all around.

Click Here To Show Diagram Code: [go]$$Bcm1 Prisoners: $$ --------------------------------------- $$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . 4 . . . . | $$ | . . X . . . . . . . . . . 2 X O O . . | $$ | . O X O . X . . . . . . . O X X O . . | $$ | . . O X X . . . . , . X . 3 . X O . . | $$ | . . O O O X X X . . . . . . . X . . . | $$ | . . X . . O O . . . . . . . . . O . . | $$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . | $$ | . . O . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . | $$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . | $$ | . . . , . . . . . , . . . . . , . . . | $$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . X . . . | $$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . | $$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . | $$ | . . 1 . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . | $$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . | $$ | . . . O . . . . . O . . O . X , . . . | $$ | . . . . . 5 . . . . . . . . . X . . . | $$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . | $$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . | $$ ---------------------------------------[/go]

This doesn't seem that bad to be honest because it's gote for me. He can get two moves in my moyo which I really don't want. If I did decide to move my stone out it wouldn't be until much later.

yithril · Post by **yithril** » Tue Jul 17, 2012 1:32 pm

Any comments from the peanut gallery? Any questions for us? Awfully silent for a Malkovich game

topazg · Post by **topazg** » Tue Jul 17, 2012 1:41 pm

Click Here To Show Diagram Code: [go]$$Bcm31 Prisoners: $$ --------------------------------------- $$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . | $$ | . . X . . . . . . . . . . . 3 2 4 . . | $$ | . O X O . X . . . . . . . O 5 X O . . | $$ | . . O X X . . . . , . X . 7 . X O . . | $$ | . . O O O X X X . . . . . . . 1 . . . | $$ | . . X . . O O . . . . . . . . . 6 . . | $$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . | $$ | . . O . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . | $$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . | $$ | . . . , . . . . . , . . . . . , . . . | $$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . X . . . | $$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . | $$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . | $$ | . . . 8 . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . | $$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . | $$ | . . . O . . . . . O . . O . X , . . . | $$ | . . . 9 . . . . . . . . . . . X . . . | $$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . | $$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . | $$ ---------------------------------------[/go]

Ok, I'm happy enough with the top - was the last move too slow? I really don't know, but I think now's my last chance to do something in this area, so I'll play the contact and see what I can pick up. If he hanes on either side, I can extend the other and live, but I need to be really careful not to get squished too small. Something like this may be ok:

Click Here To Show Diagram Code: [go]$$Bcm41 Prisoners: $$ --------------------------------------- $$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . | $$ | . . X . . . . . . . . . . . X O O . . | $$ | . O X O . X . . . . . . . O X X O . . | $$ | . . O X X . . . . , . X . X . X O . . | $$ | . . O O O X X X . . . . . . . X . . . | $$ | . . X . . O O . . . . . . . . . O . . | $$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . | $$ | . . O . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . | $$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . | $$ | . . . , . . . . . , . . . . . , . . . | $$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . X . . . | $$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . | $$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . | $$ | . 3 . O . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . | $$ | . b . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . | $$ | . a . O . . . . . O . . O . X , . . . | $$ | . . 1 X W . . . . . . . . . . X . . . | $$ | . . . . 2 . . . . . . . . . . . . . . | $$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . | $$ ---------------------------------------[/go]

However, I think "a" may work, in which case I'll have to play :b43:

at "b", leading to:

Click Here To Show Diagram Code: [go]$$Bcm41 Prisoners: $$ --------------------------------------- $$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . | $$ | . . X . . . . . . . . . . . X O O . . | $$ | . O X O . X . . . . . . . O X X O . . | $$ | . . O X X . . . . , . X . X . X O . . | $$ | . . O O O X X X . . . . . . . X . . . | $$ | . . X . . O O . . . . . . . . . O . . | $$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . | $$ | . . O . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . | $$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . | $$ | . . . , . . . . . , . . . . . , . . . | $$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . X . . . | $$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . | $$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . | $$ | . 4 6 O . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . | $$ | . 3 5 . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . | $$ | . . . O . . . . . O . . O . X , . . . | $$ | . . 1 X W . . . . . . . . . . X . . . | $$ | . 7 . . 2 . . . . . . . . . . . . . . | $$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . | $$ ---------------------------------------[/go]

No idea if that's a sensible place for :b47:

, but it seems to be the crucial shape point. I'll do some reading on whether or not I can extend here. If I can't, I'll just do something else - I still stand by the contact as being a reasonably flexible way of handling the corner.

Either way, he's going to get some great outside thickness from this. Maybe I should have approached instead of securing the top, but the top move felt more "honest" somehow.

EDIT: Of course "a" doesn't cut in the first diagram:

Click Here To Show Diagram Code: [go]$$Bcm41 Prisoners: $$ --------------------------------------- $$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . | $$ | . . X . . . . . . . . . . . X O O . . | $$ | . O X O . X . . . . . . . O X X O . . | $$ | . . O X X . . . . , . X . X . X O . . | $$ | . . O O O X X X . . . . . . . X . . . | $$ | . . X . . O O . . . . . . . . . O . . | $$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . | $$ | . . O . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . | $$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . | $$ | . . . , . . . . . , . . . . . , . . . | $$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . X . . . | $$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . | $$ | . 9 . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . | $$ | . 3 8 O . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . | $$ | . 6 7 a . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . | $$ | . 4 5 O . . . . . O . . O . X , . . . | $$ | . 0 1 X W . . . . . . . . . . X . . . | $$ | . . . . 2 . . . . . . . . . . . . . . | $$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . | $$ ---------------------------------------[/go]

For some reason I was seeing a phantom stone at "a", but of course there isn't one, making him very thin:

Click Here To Show Diagram Code: [go]$$Bcm51 Prisoners: $$ --------------------------------------- $$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . | $$ | . . X . . . . . . . . . . . X O O . . | $$ | . O X O . X . . . . . . . O X X O . . | $$ | . . O X X . . . . , . X . X . X O . . | $$ | . . O O O X X X . . . . . . . X . . . | $$ | . . X . . O O . . . . . . . . . O . . | $$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . | $$ | . . O . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . | $$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . | $$ | . . . , . . . . . , . . . . . , . . . | $$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . X . . . | $$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . | $$ | . X . a . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . | $$ | . X O O 3 . . . . . . . . . . . . . . | $$ | . O X 1 2 . . . . . . . . . . . . . . | $$ | . O X O b . . . . O . . O . X , . . . | $$ | . O X X O . . . . . . . . . . X . . . | $$ | . . . . O . . . . . . . . . . . . . . | $$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . | $$ ---------------------------------------[/go]

"a" and "b" seem to be miai for a good result. This is fine I hope, although he's more likely now to play this I guess:

Click Here To Show Diagram Code: [go]$$Bcm41 Prisoners: $$ --------------------------------------- $$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . | $$ | . . X . . . . . . . . . . . X O O . . | $$ | . O X O . X . . . . . . . O X X O . . | $$ | . . O X X . . . . , . X . X . X O . . | $$ | . . O O O X X X . . . . . . . X . . . | $$ | . . X . . O O . . . . . . . . . O . . | $$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . | $$ | . . O . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . | $$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . | $$ | . . . , . . . . . , . . . . . , . . . | $$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . X . . . | $$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . | $$ | . 8 . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . | $$ | . 3 6 O . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . | $$ | 9 C 5 . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . | $$ | . 7 . O . . . . . O . . O . X , . . . | $$ | . . 1 X W . . . . . . . . . . X . . . | $$ | . . . . 2 . . . . . . . . . . . . . . | $$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . | $$ ---------------------------------------[/go]

This at least is a better position than the corner I was fearing I was going to get.

topazg · Post by **topazg** » Tue Jul 17, 2012 1:49 pm

Further thoughts I had:

I did wonder about this instead:

Click Here To Show Diagram Code: [go]$$Bcm31 Prisoners: $$ --------------------------------------- $$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . | $$ | . . X . . . . . . . . . . . 3 2 4 . . | $$ | . O X O . X . . . . . . . O 5 X O . . | $$ | . . O X X . . . . , . X . 7 . X O . . | $$ | . . O O O X X X . . . . . . . 1 . . . | $$ | . . X . . O O . . . . . . . . . 6 . . | $$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . | $$ | . . O . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . | $$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . | $$ | . . . , . . . . . , . . . . . , . . . | $$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . X . . . | $$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . | $$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . | $$ | . . . 8 . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . | $$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . | $$ | . . . O . . . . . O . . O . X , . . . | $$ | . . . . . b . . . . . . . . . X . . . | $$ | . . . a 9 . . . . . . . . . . . . . . | $$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . | $$ ---------------------------------------[/go]

The more common response of "a" seems to be ok enough for me, as I should be able to settle on the bottom and leave his lower middle stones floating a little bit, but he will develop a thick left hand side, and I was more concerned with having an even smaller corner if he played "b" instead - was this :b39:

better than my game choice?

emeraldemon · Post by **emeraldemon** » Tue Jul 17, 2012 4:26 pm

Since you asked:

@yithril:

@topazg:

yithril · Post by **yithril** » Tue Jul 17, 2012 6:07 pm

emeraldemon wrote:Since you asked:

@yithril:
Why D6 specifically? Why not C6 or F4 or F3?

@topazg:
Did you consider blocking on the R16 side for the 33 invasion instead of Q17?

topazg · Post by **topazg** » Wed Jul 18, 2012 1:11 am

emeraldemon wrote:Did you consider blocking on the R16 side for the 33 invasion instead of Q17?

Yeah, I did. The reason I chose against it is because that would give White at least as big a corner as this way, and it allows White to walk happily into my territory at the top. I think the thickness in the top left is far enough away that this works to build a moyo, as opposed to being overconcentrated. If I block the other way, I have a very uncertain territory on the right because of how generally few stones I have there. Comparing these two diagrams:

Click Here To Show Diagram Code: [go]$$Bcm39 Prisoners: $$ --------------------------------------- $$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . | $$ | . . X . . . . . . . . . . . X O O . . | $$ | . O X O . X . . . . . . . O X X O . . | $$ | . . O X X . . . . , . X . X . X O . . | $$ | . . O O O X X X . . . . . . . X . . . | $$ | . . X . . O O 1 . . . . . 7 5 4 O . . | $$ | . . . . . . . a . . . . . . 6 . . . . | $$ | . . O . . . 2 . . . . . . . . 8 3 . . | $$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . 0 9 . . . | $$ | . . . , . . . . . , . . . . . B . . . | $$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . X . . . | $$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . | $$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . | $$ | . . . O . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . | $$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . | $$ | . . . O . . . . . O . . O . X , . . . | $$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . X . . . | $$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . | $$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . | $$ ---------------------------------------[/go]

My hope here is that I can get enough points on the top and the right that it's hard for White to guarantee enough points from his moyo to overtake Black's score. The problem is, White's moyo could get really very big, so I honestly don't know. It's also quite possibly greedy of Black to try and get points on both sides like this, I don't know, but I don't want to make a further push at "a" because it makes White thicker in a way that benefits White more than I think Black gains. Alternatively:

Click Here To Show Diagram Code: [go]$$Bcm31 Prisoners: $$ --------------------------------------- $$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . | $$ | . . X . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . | $$ | . O X O . X . . . . 6 . 4 O 2 W O . . | $$ | . . O X X . . . . , . X 5 3 1 X B . . | $$ | . . O O O X X X . . . . . . . . . . . | $$ | . . X . . O O . . . . . . . . . . . . | $$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . | $$ | . . O . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . | $$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . | $$ | . . . , . . . . . , . . . . . , . . . | $$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . 7 . X . . . | $$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . | $$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . | $$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . | $$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . | $$ | . . . O . . . . . O . . O . X , . . . | $$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . X . . . | $$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . | $$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . | $$ ---------------------------------------[/go]

This may well be fine - certainly, Black's right side has very good potential, but the bottom seems to be almost completely gone now. This does look better than I thought it would, so maybe this would have been the better way to play, it just feels very uncertain to me at the moment

yithril · Post by **yithril** » Thu Jul 19, 2012 7:34 pm

Click Here To Show Diagram Code: [go]$$Bcm31 Prisoners: $$ --------------------------------------- $$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . | $$ | . . X . . . . . . . . . . . 3 2 4 . . | $$ | . O X O . X . . . . . . . O 5 X O . . | $$ | . . O X X . . . . , . X . 7 . X O . . | $$ | . . O O O X X X . . . . . . . 1 . . . | $$ | . . X . . O O . . . . . . . . . 6 . . | $$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . | $$ | . . O . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . | $$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . | $$ | . . . , . . . . . , . . . . . , . . . | $$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . X . . . | $$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . | $$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . | $$ | . . . 8 . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . | $$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . | $$ | . . . O . . . . . O . . O . X , . . . | $$ | . . 0 9 . . . . . . . . . . . X . . . | $$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . | $$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . | $$ ---------------------------------------[/go]

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Topazg vs. Yithril

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Re: Topazg vs. Yithril

Re: Topazg vs. Yithril

Re: Topazg vs. Yithril

Re: Topazg vs. Yithril

Re: Topazg vs. Yithril

Re: Topazg vs. Yithril

Re: Topazg vs. Yithril

Re: Topazg vs. Yithril

Re: Topazg vs. Yithril

Re: Topazg vs. Yithril

Re: Topazg vs. Yithril

Re: Topazg vs. Yithril

Re: Topazg vs. Yithril

Re: Topazg vs. Yithril