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Offline yoyoma
 Post subject: Problem from a game
Post #1 Posted: Wed Aug 22, 2012 12:01 pm 
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Problem from a game my friend played:

Click Here To Show Diagram Code
[go]$$
$$ ---------------------------------------
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . 1 O . X . . . . . |
$$ | . . . . . O . O X X . O X X . . . . . |
$$ | . . . , . . . O O X X O X . . , . . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . O O O X X . . . . . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ ---------------------------------------[/go]



Edit: Added white support stone outside.
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Offline Joaz Banbeck
 Post subject: Re: Problem from a game
Post #2 Posted: Wed Aug 22, 2012 12:23 pm 
Judan
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Kaya handle: Test
B wins like this with natural moves because W requires an approach move at 'a'.

Click Here To Show Diagram Code
[go]$$
$$ ---------------------------------------
$$ | . . . . . . . . a . 5 . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . 4 2 3 1 O . X . . . . . |
$$ | . . . . . O . O X X . O X X . . . . . |
$$ | . . . , . . . O O X X O X . . , . . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . O O O X X . . . . . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ ---------------------------------------[/go]


So...

Click Here To Show Diagram Code
[go]$$
$$ ---------------------------------------
$$ | . . . . . . . 4 . 8 5 6 7 . . . . . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . 2 3 1 O . X . . . . . |
$$ | . . . . . O . O X X . O X X . . . . . |
$$ | . . . , . . . O O X X O X . . , . . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . O O O X X . . . . . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ ---------------------------------------[/go]


A ko, I think.

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Offline topazg
 Post subject: Re: Problem from a game
Post #3 Posted: Wed Aug 22, 2012 12:28 pm 
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Click Here To Show Diagram Code
[go]$$
$$ ---------------------------------------
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . 2 . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . 1 O . X . . . . . |
$$ | . . . . . O . O X X . O X X . . . . . |
$$ | . . . , . . . O O X X O X . . , . . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . O O O X X . . . . . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ ---------------------------------------[/go]
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Offline Joaz Banbeck
 Post subject: Re: Problem from a game
Post #4 Posted: Wed Aug 22, 2012 12:57 pm 
Judan
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topazg wrote:
Click Here To Show Diagram Code
[go]$$
$$ ---------------------------------------
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . 2 . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . 1 O . X . . . . . |
$$ | . . . . . O . O X X . O X X . . . . . |
$$ | . . . , . . . O O X X O X . . , . . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . O O O X X . . . . . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ ---------------------------------------[/go]


I haven't read all lines, but my first impression is that this ends in...
...seki:

Click Here To Show Diagram Code
[go]$$
$$ ---------------------------------------
$$ | . . . . . . . 8 . 3 . 2 7 . . . . . . |
$$ | . . . . . . 6 5 4 . 1 O . X . . . . . |
$$ | . . . . . O . O X X . O X X . . . . . |
$$ | . . . , . . . O O X X O X . . , . . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . O O O X X . . . . . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ ---------------------------------------[/go]


Click Here To Show Diagram Code
[go]$$
$$ ---------------------------------------
$$ | . . . . . . . O 2 X . O X . . . . . . |
$$ | . . . . . . O . O 1 X O 3 X . . . . . |
$$ | . . . . . O . O X X . O X X . . . . . |
$$ | . . . , . . . O O X X O X . . , . . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . O O O X X . . . . . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ ---------------------------------------[/go]


@Yoyoma: thanks for an interesting thread. :bow:

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Offline topazg
 Post subject: Re: Problem from a game
Post #5 Posted: Wed Aug 22, 2012 1:03 pm 
Tengen
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@Joaz:

Yeah, seki was what I kept coming down to as well with a few different lines :)
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Offline Joaz Banbeck
 Post subject: Re: Problem from a game
Post #6 Posted: Wed Aug 22, 2012 1:05 pm 
Judan
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I have wasted too much time on this. I have work to do. :cry:

So I leave my best guess:
If 3 in the post above is the best answer to Topazg's 2, then that suggests that it is the vital point. So maybe white should play it first:
Click Here To Show Diagram Code
[go]$$
$$ ---------------------------------------
$$ | . . . . . . . . . 2 . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . 1 O . X . . . . . |
$$ | . . . . . O . O X X . O X X . . . . . |
$$ | . . . , . . . O O X X O X . . , . . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . O O O X X . . . . . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ ---------------------------------------[/go]

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Offline topazg
 Post subject: Re: Problem from a game
Post #7 Posted: Wed Aug 22, 2012 1:11 pm 
Tengen
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Click Here To Show Diagram Code
[go]$$
$$ ---------------------------------------
$$ | . . . . . . . . . 2 5 3 4 . . . . . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . 6 1 O . X . . . . . |
$$ | . . . . . O . O X X . O X X . . . . . |
$$ | . . . , . . . O O X X O X . . , . . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . O O O X X . . . . . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ ---------------------------------------[/go]


Click Here To Show Diagram Code
[go]$$
$$ ---------------------------------------
$$ | . . . . . . . . . 2 3 5 . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . 4 6 1 O . X . . . . . |
$$ | . . . . . O . O X X . O X X . . . . . |
$$ | . . . , . . . O O X X O X . . , . . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . O O O X X . . . . . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ ---------------------------------------[/go]


But ...


Click Here To Show Diagram Code
[go]$$
$$ ---------------------------------------
$$ | . . . . . . . 0 9 2 6 3 4 . . . . . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . 8 7 . 1 O 5 X . . . . . |
$$ | . . . . . O . O X X . O X X . . . . . |
$$ | . . . , . . . O O X X O X . . , . . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . O O O X X . . . . . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ ---------------------------------------[/go]


seki again .. Hmmmm....
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Offline cyclops
 Post subject: Re: Problem from a game
Post #8 Posted: Wed Aug 22, 2012 5:02 pm 
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I explored the hane for :w2: . I guess it result in ko.
Click Here To Show Diagram Code
[go]$$Bc
$$ ----------------------
$$ . . 0 . 9 . 2 . . . .
$$ . 8 7 3 5 4 . O . X .
$$ . O . O X X 6 O X X .
$$ . . . O O X X O X . .
$$ . . . . O O O X X . .
$$ . . . . . . . . . . .[/go]
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Offline Joaz Banbeck
 Post subject: Re: Problem from a game
Post #9 Posted: Wed Aug 22, 2012 9:00 pm 
Judan
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cyclops wrote:
I explored the hane for :w2: . I guess it result in ko.
Click Here To Show Diagram Code
[go]$$Bc
$$ ----------------------
$$ . . 0 . 9 . 2 . . . .
$$ . 8 7 3 5 4 . O . X .
$$ . O . O X X 6 O X X .
$$ . . . O O X X O X . .
$$ . . . . O O O X X . .
$$ . . . . . . . . . . .[/go]

Or a ko like this:
Click Here To Show Diagram Code
[go]$$
$$ ---------------------------------------
$$ | . . . . . . . . . 3 2 4 . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . 5 . 1 O . X . . . . . |
$$ | . . . . . O . O X X 6 O X X . . . . . |
$$ | . . . , . . . O O X X O X . . , . . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . O O O X X . . . . . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ ---------------------------------------[/go]

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Offline yoyoma
 Post subject: Re: Problem from a game
Post #10 Posted: Thu Aug 23, 2012 1:31 pm 
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Well I don't claim to know the result, but here are some variations I came up with:
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