Another problem from a game

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yoyoma
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Another problem from a game

Post by yoyoma »

Another problem from a game.
Click Here To Show Diagram Code
[go]$$W
$$ | . . . . . . . .
$$ | . O . . . . . .
$$ | . . . . . . . .
$$ | . O O O O . . .
$$ | . X X . . O . .
$$ | . . . X . O . .
$$ | . 1 . . . O . .
$$ | . . X . . O . .
$$ | . . X . O . . .
$$ | . X . O . . . .
$$ | . O O . . . . .
$$ | . . . . . . . .
$$ | . O . . . . . .
$$ | . . . . . . . .[/go]
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Joaz Banbeck
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Re: Another problem from a game

Post by Joaz Banbeck »

It looks alive to me.
Click Here To Show Diagram Code
[go]$$W
$$ | . . . . . . . .
$$ | . O . . . . . .
$$ | . . . . . . . .
$$ | . O O O O . . .
$$ | . X X . . O . .
$$ | 6 . . X . O . .
$$ | 7 1 . 8 . O . .
$$ | 5 2 X . . O . .
$$ | 3 . X . O . . .
$$ | 4 X . O . . . .
$$ | . O O . . . . .
$$ | . . . . . . . .
$$ | . O . . . . . .
$$ | . . . . . . . .[/go]
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yoyoma
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Re: Another problem from a game

Post by yoyoma »

Joaz Banbeck wrote:It looks alive to me.
Click Here To Show Diagram Code
[go]$$W
$$ | . . . . . . . .
$$ | . O . . . . . .
$$ | . . . . . . . .
$$ | . O O O O . . .
$$ | . X X . . O . .
$$ | 6 . . X . O . .
$$ | 7 1 . 8 . O . .
$$ | 5 2 X . . O . .
$$ | 3 . X . O . . .
$$ | 4 X . O . . . .
$$ | . O O . . . . .
$$ | . . . . . . . .
$$ | . O . . . . . .
$$ | . . . . . . . .[/go]
What about :w3: hane at :b4: instead?
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Joaz Banbeck
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Re: Another problem from a game

Post by Joaz Banbeck »

You mean like this?
Click Here To Show Diagram Code
[go]$$W
$$ | . . . . . . . .
$$ | . O . . . . . .
$$ | . . . . . . . .
$$ | . O O O O . . .
$$ | . X X . . O . .
$$ | . 6 . X . O . .
$$ | . 1 . . . O . .
$$ | . 2 X . . O . .
$$ | 4 . X . O . . .
$$ | 3 X . O . . . .
$$ | 5 O O . . . . .
$$ | . . . . . . . .
$$ | . O . . . . . .
$$ | . . . . . . . .[/go]
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cyclops
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Re: Another problem from a game

Post by cyclops »

just a guess
Click Here To Show Diagram Code
[go]$$Wc
$$ | . . . . . . .
$$ | . O . , . . .
$$ | . . . . . . .
$$ | . O O O O . .
$$ | 5 X X . . O .
$$ | 6 . . X . O .
$$ | 9 1 7 8 . O .
$$ | . 2 X , . O .
$$ | 4 . X . O . .
$$ | 3 X . O . . .
$$ | . O O . . . .
$$ | . . . . . . .
$$ | . O . . . . .
$$ | . . . , . . .[/go]
edit: so it seems I guessed 6 out of 9 :clap:
Last edited by cyclops on Fri Aug 24, 2012 8:40 am, edited 1 time in total.
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yoyoma
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Re: Another problem from a game

Post by yoyoma »

Joaz Banbeck wrote:You mean like this?
Click Here To Show Diagram Code
[go]$$W
$$ | . . . . . . . .
$$ | . O . . . . . .
$$ | . . . . . . . .
$$ | . O O O O . . .
$$ | . X X . . O . .
$$ | . 6 . X . O . .
$$ | . 1 . . . O . .
$$ | . 2 X . . O . .
$$ | 4 . X . O . . .
$$ | 3 X . O . . . .
$$ | 5 O O . . . . .
$$ | . . . . . . . .
$$ | . O . . . . . .
$$ | . . . . . . . .[/go]
.... Keep going. :cool:
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Joaz Banbeck
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Re: Another problem from a game

Post by Joaz Banbeck »

yoyoma wrote:..
.... Keep going. :cool:
I've done the essential part. The rest is just judicious application of miai. :D
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yoyoma
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Re: Another problem from a game

Post by yoyoma »

Joaz Banbeck wrote:
yoyoma wrote:..
.... Keep going. :cool:
I've done the essential part. The rest is just judicious application of miai. :D
You think Black has miai to live? I don't think so. I'll add a few more moves:
Click Here To Show Diagram Code
[go]$$W
$$ | . . . . . . . .
$$ | . O . . . . . .
$$ | . . . . . . . .
$$ | . O O O O . . .
$$ | . X X . . O . .
$$ | . 6 . X . O . .
$$ | . 1 . . . O . .
$$ | . 2 X . . O . .
$$ | 4 . X . O . . .
$$ | 3 X . O . . . .
$$ | 5 O O . . . . .
$$ | . . . . . . . .
$$ | . O . . . . . .
$$ | . . . . . . . .[/go]
Click Here To Show Diagram Code
[go]$$Wm7
$$ | . . . . . . . .
$$ | . O . . . . . .
$$ | . . . . . . . .
$$ | . O O O O . . .
$$ | . X X . . O . .
$$ | . X . X . O . .
$$ | 3 O 1 2 . O . .
$$ | . X X . . O . .
$$ | X . X . O . . .
$$ | O X . O . . . .
$$ | O O O . . . . .
$$ | . . . . . . . .
$$ | . O . . . . . .
$$ | . . . . . . . .[/go]
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yoyoma
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Re: Another problem from a game

Post by yoyoma »

No one is posting, I'll add a few more moves. Maybe I'm about to discover something obvious that I hadn't seen before? :-?
yoyoma wrote:
Joaz Banbeck wrote:
yoyoma wrote:..
.... Keep going. :cool:
I've done the essential part. The rest is just judicious application of miai. :D
You think Black has miai to live? I don't think so. I'll add a few more moves:
Click Here To Show Diagram Code
[go]$$W
$$ | . . . . . . . .
$$ | . O . . . . . .
$$ | . . . . . . . .
$$ | . O O O O . . .
$$ | . X X . . O . .
$$ | . 6 . X . O . .
$$ | . 1 . . . O . .
$$ | . 2 X . . O . .
$$ | 4 . X . O . . .
$$ | 3 X . O . . . .
$$ | 5 O O . . . . .
$$ | . . . . . . . .
$$ | . O . . . . . .
$$ | . . . . . . . .[/go]
Click Here To Show Diagram Code
[go]$$Wm7 Black tries to make a seki, but White cuts. Black dies.
$$ | . . . . . . . .
$$ | . O . . . . . .
$$ | . . . . . . . .
$$ | . O O O O . . .
$$ | 4 X X . . O . .
$$ | . X . X . O . .
$$ | 3 O 1 2 . O . .
$$ | . X X 7 . O . .
$$ | X 6 X . O . . .
$$ | O X 5 O . . . .
$$ | O O O . . . . .
$$ | . . . . . . . .
$$ | . O . . . . . .
$$ | . . . . . . . .[/go]
Click Here To Show Diagram Code
[go]$$Wm7 I think Black must make a ko.
$$ | . . . . . . . .
$$ | . O . . . . . .
$$ | . . . . . . . .
$$ | . O O O O . . .
$$ | . X X . . O . .
$$ | 6 X . X . O . .
$$ | 3 O 1 2 . O . .
$$ | 5 X X . . O . .
$$ | X 7 X . O . . .
$$ | O X 4 O . . . .
$$ | O O O . . . . .
$$ | . . . . . . . .
$$ | . O . . . . . .
$$ | . . . . . . . .[/go]
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illluck
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Re: Another problem from a game

Post by illluck »

I didn't read this very carefully, but what about this?
Click Here To Show Diagram Code
[go]$$W
$$ | . . . . . . . .
$$ | . O . . . . . .
$$ | . . . . . . . .
$$ | . O O O O . . .
$$ | 0 X X . . O . .
$$ | 9 7 b X . O . .
$$ | 8 1 6 . . O . .
$$ | a 2 X . . O . .
$$ | 4 c X . O . . .
$$ | 3 X . O . . . .
$$ | 5 O O . . . . .
$$ | . . . . . . . .
$$ | . O . . . . . .
$$ | . . . . . . . .[/go]
11 at a, 12 at b, 13 at c, 14 at 8, 15 at 4, 16 at 7.

A few other variations that's more or less similar, black seems to live after 6.
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yoyoma
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Re: Another problem from a game

Post by yoyoma »

Aha illluck, I didn't see that. But I think White can use a different move order. The problem is getting more and more variations so I'm switching to sgf:

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jts
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Re: Another problem from a game

Post by jts »

You have the 5(a)-8(b)-10(b) variation ending in death, but you neglect :b14: at d13, which is ko.

On 5(a)-8(b)-10(c), you have :b12: filling in a shared liberty at A10, but if B takes an external liberty first, W has no move.

On 5(a)-8(a)-12(c), :b20: can fill the ko, and W has no move.
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yoyoma
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Re: Another problem from a game

Post by yoyoma »

Thanks jts. I fixed the problems you pointed out. To fix the 3rd problem you pointed out, I had to add an extra white stone to the problem (oops!). Any more mistakes? :oops:

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Tommie
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Re: Another problem from a game

Post by Tommie »

Click Here To Show Diagram Code
[go]$$Bc
$$ +---------------------------------------+
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . W . , . . . . . , . . . . . , . . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . O O O O . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . X X . . O . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | 3 X . X . O . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | O O O X . O . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | q X X 2 . O . . . , . . . . . , . . . |
$$ | X . X . O . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | O X 1 O . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | O O O . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . O . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . . , . . . . . , . . . . . , . . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ +---------------------------------------+[/go]
Dear all, in above variation, Black takes of course a liberty with :b3: from the other side
(the one with more libs), then would win the semeai.

i thought however of another sequence, which sprang to mind:
Click Here To Show Diagram Code
[go]$$Bc
$$ +---------------------------------------+
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . W . , . . . . . , . . . . . , . . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | 5 O O O O . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | a X X 6 . O . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | 3 4 7 X . O . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . O . 1 . O . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . r X , . O . . . , . . . . . , . . . |
$$ | 9 . X . O . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | 8 X p O . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | q O O . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . W . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . . , . . . . . , . . . . . , . . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ +---------------------------------------+[/go]
:b1: attempts to enlarge the eye-space, :w2: = A and :w8: try to do the opposite.
Black is dead after W10 = P., because Q and R are miai.

Note the usefulness of both white :white: ,
does this exact position really come from a game record?
Greetings,
Tommie

3dan EGF (AGA no 13477) || Tommie on KGS: 'June'|| DGS: 'Zhi Laohu' 纸老虎 = 'paper tiger' || Senseis : http://senseis.xmp.net/?tderz ||
ENFP (MBTI) - 'Find your own style within the Fundamentals of Go! '
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yoyoma
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Re: Another problem from a game

Post by yoyoma »

Hi Tommie thanks for looking. Did you see my latest fix? See any problems?

Here is the real game it came from (I'm black, one of my many alternate names :batman: )
http://eidogo.com/#url:http://files.gok ... Minute.sgf
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