35. Magicwand (3d) vs. Kirby (1d)

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Joaz Banbeck
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Re: Magicwand vs. Kirby, part 3

Post by Joaz Banbeck »

Kirby must reply with B1, of course.
Click Here To Show Diagram Code
[go]$$Bc Kirby must play this
$$ | . . . , . . . . . X . . . . . , . . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . O . . . . . X . . |
$$ | . . X . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . . X . . . . . , . . . . . X . . . |
$$ | . . . X . . . . . . . . . . X . . . . |
$$ | . . 1 O W . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ ---------------------------------------[/go]
Magicwand can go this far with W2, as the connection is still strong enough to handle the nose tesuji.
Click Here To Show Diagram Code
[go]$$Bc Magicwand's best
$$ | . . . , . . . . . X . . . . . , . . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . O . . . . . X . . |
$$ | . . X . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . . X . . 8 0 . , . . . . . X . . . |
$$ | . . . X 6 4 7 2 . . . . . . X . . . . |
$$ | . . 1 O W 3 5 9 . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ ---------------------------------------[/go]
This is obviously too far:
Click Here To Show Diagram Code
[go]$$Bc
$$ | . . . , . . . . . X . . . . . , . . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . O . . . . . X . . |
$$ | . . X . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . . X . . . . . , . . . . . X . . . |
$$ | . . . X . . 3 . 2 . . . . . X . . . . |
$$ | . . 1 O W . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ ---------------------------------------[/go]
So then Kirby has a juicy target:
Click Here To Show Diagram Code
[go]$$Bc
$$ | . . . , . . . . . X . . . . . , . . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . 9 8 O . . . . . X . . |
$$ | . . X . . . . . 6 7 . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . 4 . 5 . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . . X . . a . . , . . . . . X . . . |
$$ | . . . X . . . 2 . 3 . . . . X . . . . |
$$ | . . 1 O W b . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ ---------------------------------------[/go]
with interesting tesujis at 'a' and 'b'.
Help make L19 more organized. Make an index: https://lifein19x19.com/viewtopic.php?f=14&t=5207
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Kirby
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Re: Magicwand vs. Kirby, part 3

Post by Kirby »

Click Here To Show Diagram Code
[go]$$Wc Prisoners: B=1, W=1
$$ ---------------------------------------
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . X . . . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . O O X . X X O X . . . |
$$ | . . X . . . . . O X X X . O O . X . . |
$$ | . X . O . O . O . O . . . . . X . . . |
$$ | . X . . . . . . O . . . . O . . . . . |
$$ | X . X O . . . . . . . . . . . X X . . |
$$ | . X O . O . . . . X . . . O . O O . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . O O . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . O . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . . , . . . . . X . . . . . , . . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . O . . . . . X . . |
$$ | . . X . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . . X . . . . . , . . . . . X . . . |
$$ | . . . X . . . . . . . . . . X . . . . |
$$ | . . B O O . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ ---------------------------------------[/go]
I like this alright. I am safe with my group, and can have some points in this area.

One joseki goes something like this:
Click Here To Show Diagram Code
[go]$$Bc Prisoners: B=1, W=1
$$ ---------------------------------------
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . X . . . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . O O X . X X O X . . . |
$$ | . . X . . . . . O X X X . O O . X . . |
$$ | . X . O . O . O . O . . . . . X . . . |
$$ | . X . . . . . . O . . . . O . . . . . |
$$ | X . X O . . . . . . . . . . . X X . . |
$$ | . X O . O . . . . X . . . O . O O . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . O O . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . O . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . . , . . . . . X . . . . . , . . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . O . . . . . X . . |
$$ | . . X . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . c . X . . . . . , . . . . . X . . . |
$$ | . . 3 X . . a b . . . . . . X . . . . |
$$ | . 2 1 O W . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ ---------------------------------------[/go]
White continues with some thing like "a" or "b". Black usually plays 3 instead of blocking because of the aji left in the c area.

Maybe I'll play this way. I haven't quite decided, yet. I'll decide after Magicwand plays :w2: (if he does).
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Magicwand
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Re: Magicwand vs. Kirby, part 3

Post by Magicwand »

Click Here To Show Diagram Code
[go]$$Wc Prisoners: B=1, W=1
$$ ---------------------------------------
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . X . . . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . O O X . X X O X . . . |
$$ | . . X . . . . . O X X X . O O . X . . |
$$ | . X . O . O . O . O . . . . . X . . . |
$$ | . X . . . . . . O . . . . O . . . . . |
$$ | X . X O . . . . . . . . . . . X X . . |
$$ | . X O . O . . . . X . . . O . O O . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . O O . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . O . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . . , . . . . . X . . . . . , . . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . O . . . . . X . . |
$$ | . . X . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . . X . . . . . , . . . . . X . . . |
$$ | . . . X . . . . . . . . . . X . . . . |
$$ | . W X O O . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ ---------------------------------------[/go]
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Re: Magicwand vs. Kirby, part 3

Post by prokofiev »

Kirby wrote:
White continues with some thing like "a" or "b". Black usually plays 3 instead of blocking because of the aji left in the c area.
This is interesting. Could you give an example of how white can exploit the aji if black blocks? Thanks!
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Re: Magicwand vs. Kirby, part 3

Post by amnal »

prokofiev wrote:
Kirby wrote:
White continues with some thing like "a" or "b". Black usually plays 3 instead of blocking because of the aji left in the c area.
This is interesting. Could you give an example of how white can exploit the aji if black blocks? Thanks!
Prokofiev:
Click Here To Show Diagram Code
[go]$$ ---------------------------------------
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . X . . . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . O O X . X X O X . . . |
$$ | . . X . . . . . O X X X . O O . X . . |
$$ | . X . O . O . O . O . . . . . X . . . |
$$ | . X . . . . . . O . . . . O . . . . . |
$$ | X . X O . . . . . . . . . . . X X . . |
$$ | . X O . O . . . . X . . . O . O O . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . O O . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . O . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . . , . . . . . X . . . . . , . . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . 2 . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . O . . . . . X . . |
$$ | . 8 X . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . 6 7 . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . 4 . X . . . . . , . . . . . X . . . |
$$ | . . 5 X . . . . . . . . . . X . . . . |
$$ | . W X O O . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . 1 x . . . . . . . . . . . . . . 3 |
$$ ---------------------------------------[/go]
If black blocks, white can't quite do anything straight away, but it is very easy for him to play moves in sente around the area. If black ignores white 2, for example, white can try to gouge out the corner.

Obviously black can try to resist (maybe 5 one space higher is annoying), but white clearly has some good points to aim at in black's 'territory'.

The descent also gives white a forcing move at x, which might turn out to be vital for eyeshape, so not descending could be viewed as a harsher attack. I don't know how important this factor is.

White usually plays the clamp now because if black plays to protect his corner during the fight, he will be able to block later, and white will have lost the chance to make this aji.

Descending isn't actually bad, and can be seen in professional games, but isn't particularly common.

EDIT: Actually, my suggested annoying move is not to be feared. White can just live in the corner if necessary:
Click Here To Show Diagram Code
[go]$$ ---------------------------------------
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . X . . . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . O O X . X X O X . . . |
$$ | . . X . . . . . O X X X . O O . X . . |
$$ | . X . O . O . O . O . . . . . X . . . |
$$ | . X . . . . . . O . . . . O . . . . . |
$$ | X . X O . . . . . . . . . . . X X . . |
$$ | . X O . O . . . . X . . . O . O O . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . O O . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . O . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . . , . . . . . X . . . . . , . . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . O . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . 5 7 . . . . . . . O . . . . . X . . |
$$ | . 4 X . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . 6 . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . 2 3 X . . . . . , . . . . . X . . . |
$$ | . 8 9 X . . . . . . . . . . X . . . . |
$$ | . O X O O . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . X . . . . . . . . . . . . . . 1 . |
$$ ---------------------------------------[/go]
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Kirby
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Re: Magicwand vs. Kirby, part 3

Post by Kirby »

It seems like you are having a relaxing vacation, Magicwand :)
Click Here To Show Diagram Code
[go]$$Wc Prisoners: B=1, W=1
$$ ---------------------------------------
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . X . . . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . O O X . X X O X . . . |
$$ | . . X . . . . . O X X X . O O . X . . |
$$ | . X . O . O . O . O . . . . . X . . . |
$$ | . X . . . . . . O . . . . O . . . . . |
$$ | X . X O . . . . . . . . . . . X X . . |
$$ | . X O . O . . . . X . . . O . O O . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . O O . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . O . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . . , . . . . . X . . . . . , . . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . O . . . . . X . . |
$$ | . . X . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . . X . . . . . , . . . . . X . . . |
$$ | . . B X . . . . . . . . . . X . . . . |
$$ | . O X O O . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ ---------------------------------------[/go]
I could try to block, but I'll play simply like this, as described in the last post. I might be able to deal with the aji otherwise, but it will be easier for me to attack his stones, I think, if I just play simply like this.
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Magicwand
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Re: Magicwand vs. Kirby, part 3

Post by Magicwand »

Click Here To Show Diagram Code
[go]$$Wc Prisoners: B=1, W=1
$$ ---------------------------------------
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . X . . . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . O O X . X X O X . . . |
$$ | . . X . . . . . O X X X . O O . X . . |
$$ | . X . O . O . O . O . . . . . X . . . |
$$ | . X . . . . . . O . . . . O . . . . . |
$$ | X . X O . . . . . . . . . . . X X . . |
$$ | . X O . O . . . . X . . . O . O O . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . O O . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . O . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . . , . . . . . X . . . . . , . . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . O . . . . . X . . |
$$ | . . X . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . . X . . . . . , . . . . . X . . . |
$$ | . . X X . . . W . . . . . . X . . . . |
$$ | . O X O O . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ ---------------------------------------[/go]
"The more we think we know about
The greater the unknown"
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Kirby
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Re: Magicwand vs. Kirby, part 3

Post by Kirby »

I'd like to attack his stones. This requires some planning, though.
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Kirby
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Re: Magicwand vs. Kirby, part 3

Post by Kirby »

Click Here To Show Diagram Code
[go]$$Wc Prisoners: B=1, W=1
$$ ---------------------------------------
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . X . . . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . O O X . X X O X . . . |
$$ | . . X . . . . . O X X X . O O . X . . |
$$ | . X . O . O . O . O . . . . . X . . . |
$$ | . X . . . . . . O . . . . O . . . . . |
$$ | X . X O . . . . . . . . . . . X X . . |
$$ | . X O . O . . . . X . . . O . O O . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . O O . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . O . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . . , . . . . . X . . . . . , . . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . O . . . . . X . . |
$$ | . . X . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . . X . . . . . , . . . . . X . . . |
$$ | . . X X . . . O . B . . . . X . . . . |
$$ | . O X O O . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ ---------------------------------------[/go]
I think it's best to put pressure on his group this way. I can get territory by attacking his group.

White could give me a counter pincer, for example, but his group is weak enough that I don't think he'd be successful with it. He has weaknesses around "a", and I can continue to jump out:
Click Here To Show Diagram Code
[go]$$Wc Prisoners: B=1, W=1
$$ ---------------------------------------
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . X . . . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . O O X . X X O X . . . |
$$ | . . X . . . . . O X X X . O O . X . . |
$$ | . X . O . O . O . O . . . . . X . . . |
$$ | . X . . . . . . O . . . . O . . . . . |
$$ | X . X O . . . . . . . . . . . X X . . |
$$ | . X O . O . . . . X . . . O . O O . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . O O . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . O . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . . , . . . . . X . . . . . , . . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . O . . . . . X . . |
$$ | . . X . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . . X . . . . . , . . . . . X . . . |
$$ | . . X X . . . O . B . . . . X . . . . |
$$ | . O X O O . a . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ ---------------------------------------[/go]
If he does pincer, I can attack his pincer stone as well. I don't think that white can successfully counter my attack.

The game is still going pretty smoothly.

If I step back and ignore the score, I can try to consider what stones I've played that seem inefficient:
Click Here To Show Diagram Code
[go]$$Wc Prisoners: B=1, W=1
$$ ---------------------------------------
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . X . . . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . O O X . X X O X . . . |
$$ | . . X . . . . . O X X X . O O . X . . |
$$ | . X . O . O . O . O . . . . . X . . . |
$$ | . X . . . . . . O . . . . O . . . . . |
$$ | X . X O . . . . . . . . . . . X X . . |
$$ | . X O . O . . . . B . . . O . O O . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . O O . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . O . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . . , . . . . . B . . . . . , . . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . O . . . . . X . . |
$$ | . . X . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . . X . . . . . , . . . . . X . . . |
$$ | . . X X . . . O . X . . . . X . . . . |
$$ | . O X O O . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ ---------------------------------------[/go]
The two marked stones, above, seem to be the most efficient of the ones I've played. However, of the two, the non-tengen stone at least seemed to give me benefit with invading the top. Furthermore, white has still left the area open, so I have potential to save the stone in the future (maybe).

In either case, those two stones seem inefficient to me. My other stones seem alright, I think, so I feel OK about the game.

Anyway, I predict white might pincer my stone, but I think I will be at an advantage if he does.
be immersed
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Bill Spight
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Re: Magicwand vs. Kirby, part 3

Post by Bill Spight »

Magicwand wrote:
Click Here To Show Diagram Code
[go]$$Wc Prisoners: B=1, W=1
$$ ---------------------------------------
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . X . . . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . O O X . X X O X . . . |
$$ | . . X . . . . . O X X X . O O . X . . |
$$ | . X . O . O . O . O . . . . . X . . . |
$$ | . X . . . . . . O . . . . O . . . . . |
$$ | X . X O . . . . . . . . . . . X X . . |
$$ | . X O . O . . . . X . . . O . O O . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . O O . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . O . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . . , . . . . . X . . . . . , . . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . O . . . . . X . . |
$$ | . . X . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . . X . . . . . , . . . . . X . . . |
$$ | . . X X . . . W . . . . . . X . . . . |
$$ | . O X O O . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ ---------------------------------------[/go]
Black is still ahead, but White is on pace to win, thanks to Black's lackluster play. I am glad that Kirby is thinking of attacking. However, White has only one weak group now.
Click Here To Show Diagram Code
[go]$$Bc Prisoners: B=1, W=1
$$ ---------------------------------------
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . X . . . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . O O X . X X O X . . . |
$$ | . . X . . . . . O X X X . O O . X . . |
$$ | . X . O . O . O . O . . . . . X . . . |
$$ | . X . . . . . . O . . . . O . . . . . |
$$ | X . X O . . . . . . . . . . . X X . . |
$$ | . X O . O . . . . X . . . O . O O . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . O O . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . O . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . . , . . . . . B . . . . . , . . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . W . . . . . X . . |
$$ | . . X . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . . X . . . . 1 , . . . . . X . . . |
$$ | . . X X . . . O . . . . . . X . . . . |
$$ | . O X O O . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ ---------------------------------------[/go]
:b1: is the obvious play to try to mount an attack, leaning against the White group on the bottom side. But then Black does not seem to have much against the marked White stone, given the weakness of the Black tengen stone (marked).
Click Here To Show Diagram Code
[go]$$Bc Prisoners: B=1, W=1
$$ ---------------------------------------
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . X . . . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . O O X . X X O X . . . |
$$ | . . X . . . . . O X X X . O O . X . . |
$$ | . X . O . O . O . O . . . . . X . . . |
$$ | . X . . . . . . O . . . . O . . . . . |
$$ | X . X O . . . . . . . . . . . X X . . |
$$ | . X O . O . . . . X . . . O . O O . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . O O . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . O . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . . , . . . . . X . . . . . , . . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . S O . . . . . X . . |
$$ | . . X . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . 1 . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . . X . . . . . , . . . . . X . . . |
$$ | . . X X . . . O . S . . . . X . . . . |
$$ | . O X O O . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ ---------------------------------------[/go]
:b1: here looks more flexible, aiming at the one space jump or the jump attachment (marked).
Click Here To Show Diagram Code
[go]$$Bc Prisoners: B=1, W=1
$$ ---------------------------------------
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . X . . . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . O O X . X X O X . . . |
$$ | . . X . . . . . O X X X . O O . X . . |
$$ | . X . O . O . O . O . . . . . X . . . |
$$ | . X . . . . . . O . . . . O . . . . . |
$$ | X . X O . . . . . . . . . . . X X . . |
$$ | . X O . O . . . . X . . . O . O O . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . O O . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . O . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . . b . . . . . B . . . . . , . . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . 1 . W . . . . . X . . |
$$ | . . X . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . . X . . . . a , . . . . . X . . . |
$$ | . . X X . . . O . . . . . . X . . . . |
$$ | . O X O O . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ ---------------------------------------[/go]
It seems to me that the key to this position is Black's tengen stone. If it dies a dog's death it will be hard for Black to win. :b1: comes to mind. Now B"a" does attack the marked White stone as well as the White group on the bottom side. If White plays on the bottom side, then B"b" looks good.

Edit: While I was writing this note, Kirby played the approach on the bottom side.
Click Here To Show Diagram Code
[go]$$Bc Prisoners: B=1, W=1
$$ ---------------------------------------
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . X . . . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . O O X . X X O X . . . |
$$ | . . X . . . . . O X X X . O O . X . . |
$$ | . X . O . O . O . O . . . . . X . . . |
$$ | . X . . . . . . O . . . . O . . . . . |
$$ | X . X O . . . . . . . . . . . X X . . |
$$ | . X O . O . . . . X . . . O . O O . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . O O . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . O . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . B . . . . . , . . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . W . . . . . X . . |
$$ | . . X . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . . X . . . . . , . . . . . X . . . |
$$ | . . X X . . . O . 1 . . . . X . . . . |
$$ | . O X O O . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ ---------------------------------------[/go]
This is a good play, too. It extends Black's framework while attacking, a dual-purpose play. :)

Edit: Unhidden.
Last edited by Bill Spight on Wed Jun 02, 2010 5:22 pm, edited 1 time in total.
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— Winona Adkins

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Magicwand
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Re: Magicwand vs. Kirby, part 3

Post by Magicwand »

Click Here To Show Diagram Code
[go]$$Wc Prisoners: B=1, W=1
$$ ---------------------------------------
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . X . . . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . O O X . X X O X . . . |
$$ | . . X . . . . . O X X X . O O . X . . |
$$ | . X . O . O . O . O . . . . . X . . . |
$$ | . X . . . . . . O . . . . O . . . . . |
$$ | X . X O . . . . . . . . . . . X X . . |
$$ | . X O . O . . . . X . . . O . O O . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . O O . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . O . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . . , . . . . . X . . . . . , . . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . O . . . . . X . . |
$$ | . . X . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . . X . . . . . , . . . . . X . . . |
$$ | . . X X . . . O . X . . W . X . . . . |
$$ | . O X O O . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ ---------------------------------------[/go]
i am happy he tried to attack my stones.
i predict that i will sacrifice them to get bigger points in the middle. if i was Kerby i wouldn't attack so close..i would have chosen one to its right so i can not pincer..
but i am only 3D... and that is strong enough to win this game.
"The more we think we know about
The greater the unknown"
Words by neil peart, music by geddy lee and alex lifeson
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Joaz Banbeck
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Re: Magicwand vs. Kirby, part 3

Post by Joaz Banbeck »

Another overplay by Magicwand, I think.

The most obvious danger is that black might play the reflexive tobi, then white starts making a serious moyo:
Click Here To Show Diagram Code
[go]$$Bc
$$ ---------------------------------------
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . X . . . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . O O X . X X O X . . . |
$$ | . . X . . . . . O X X X . O O . X . . |
$$ | . X . O . O . O . O . . . . . X . . . |
$$ | . X . . . . . . O . . . . O . . . . . |
$$ | X . X O . . . . . . . . . . . X X . . |
$$ | . X O . O . . . . X . . . O . O O . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . O O . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . O . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . . , . . . . . X . . . . . , . . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . 2 . O . . . . . X . . |
$$ | . . X . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . 1 . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . . X . . . . . , . . . . . X . . . |
$$ | . . X X . . . O . X . . O . X . . . . |
$$ | . O X O O . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ ---------------------------------------[/go]
Now white will be able to save one side or the other.

If W2 above works well for white, then maybe black can use it.
Click Here To Show Diagram Code
[go]$$Bc
$$ ---------------------------------------
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . X . . . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . O O X . X X O X . . . |
$$ | . . X . . . . . O X X X . O O . X . . |
$$ | . X . O . O . O . O . . . . . X . . . |
$$ | . X . . . . . . O . . . . O . . . . . |
$$ | X . X O . . . . . . . . . . . X X . . |
$$ | . X O . O . . . . X . . . O . O O . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . O O . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . O . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . . , . . . . . X . . . . . , . . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . 1 . O . . . . . X . . |
$$ | . . X . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . . X . . . . . , . . . . . X . . . |
$$ | . . X X . . . O . X . . O . X . . . . |
$$ | . O X O O . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ ---------------------------------------[/go]
I think that this is Kirby's best for his next move.
Help make L19 more organized. Make an index: https://lifein19x19.com/viewtopic.php?f=14&t=5207
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Harleqin
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Re: Magicwand vs. Kirby, part 3

Post by Harleqin »

Definitely overplay, but I would be interested in other players' opinions on how to best exploit this situation.
Click Here To Show Diagram Code
[go]$$Bc Prisoners: B=1, W=1
$$ ---------------------------------------
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . X . . . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . O O X . X X O X . . . |
$$ | . . X . . . . . O X X X . O O . X . . |
$$ | . X . O . O . O . O . . . . . X . . . |
$$ | . X . . . . . . O . . . . O . . . . . |
$$ | X . X O . . . . . . . . . . . X X . . |
$$ | . X O . O . . . . X . . . O . O O . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . O O . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . O . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . . , . . . . . X . . . . . , . . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . O . . . . . X . . |
$$ | . . X . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . 3 . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . . X . . . . . , . 1 2 . . X . . . |
$$ | . . X X . . . O . X . . O . X . . . . |
$$ | . O X O O . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ ---------------------------------------[/go]
My idea would be to lean here, in order to cap the left group afterwards.
A good system naturally covers all corner cases without further effort.
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Re: Magicwand vs. Kirby, part 3

Post by Kirby »

We went to Santa Cruz today. It was kind of fun.
Click Here To Show Diagram Code
[go]$$Wc Prisoners: B=1, W=1
$$ ---------------------------------------
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . X . . . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . O O X . X X O X . . . |
$$ | . . X . . . . . O X X X . O O . X . . |
$$ | . X . O . O . O . O . . . . . X . . . |
$$ | . X . . . . . . O . . . . O . . . . . |
$$ | X . X O . . . . . . . . . . . X X . . |
$$ | . X O . O . . . . X . . . O . O O . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . O O . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . O . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . . , . . . . . X . . . . . , . . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . O . . . . . X . . |
$$ | . . X . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . . X . . . . . , . B . . . X . . . |
$$ | . . X X . . . O . X . . O . X . . . . |
$$ | . O X O O . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ ---------------------------------------[/go]
I guess he did choose to pincer, as I mentioned in my previous post. I still believe, as I did then, that I would be at an advantage in such a fight.

My move is a basic attack and defense tactic. Attack one side, and then you will have power to attack the other. He cannot have both.

Black can either give me his stone here, or I will get enough power to do some damage to his left group. I don't think I would have played this way as white.

I have confidence in this fight.
be immersed
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Magicwand
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Re: Magicwand vs. Kirby, part 3

Post by Magicwand »

Click Here To Show Diagram Code
[go]$$Wc Prisoners: B=1, W=1
$$ ---------------------------------------
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . X . . . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . O O X . X X O X . . . |
$$ | . . X . . . . . O X X X . O O . X . . |
$$ | . X . O . O . O . O . . . . . X . . . |
$$ | . X . . . . . . O . . . . O . . . . . |
$$ | X . X O . . . . . . . . . . . X X . . |
$$ | . X O . O . . . . X . . . O . O O . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . O O . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . O . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . . , . . . . . X . . . . . , . . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . O . . . . . X . . |
$$ | . . X . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . . X . . . . . , . X . . . X . . . |
$$ | . . X X . . . O . X . . O . X . W . . |
$$ | . O X O O . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ ---------------------------------------[/go]
it is going to be complicated...but at the end..i will be a winner.
"The more we think we know about
The greater the unknown"
Words by neil peart, music by geddy lee and alex lifeson
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