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Offline EdLee
 Post subject:
Post #21 Posted: Fri Sep 07, 2012 1:51 pm 
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Splatted wrote:
Is there something I'm missing?
Yes, about :b9:, I'm guessing:
(1) bad habit, (2) copying others (blindly), (3) misunderstanding, (4) reading problems; or some combo of the above.
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Offline Splatted
 Post subject: Re: #179 - DJLLAP vs opex
Post #22 Posted: Fri Sep 07, 2012 2:36 pm 
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konfuzed wrote:
@Splatted:

Ko for everything:

Click Here To Show Diagram Code
[go]$$Wcm12
$$ ---------------------------------------
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . X . . . . |
$$ | . . . O . . . . . , . . . . . , X . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . . , . . . . . , . . . . . , . . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . X . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . 5 7 . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . O 4 6 . |
$$ | . . . O . . . . . , . . . . . O X 3 8 |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . 2 X O X . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . 1 . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ ---------------------------------------[/go]


Click Here To Show Diagram Code
[go]$$Wcm20
$$ ---------------------------------------
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . X . . . . |
$$ | . . . O . . . . . , . . . . . , X . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . . , . . . . . , . . . . . , . . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . X . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . O O 3 |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . O X X 4 |
$$ | . . . O . . . . . , . . . . . O X . X |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . X X O X . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . O 1 2 |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . 5 |
$$ ---------------------------------------[/go]

Click Here To Show Diagram Code
[go]$$Bcm25
$$ ---------------------------------------
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . X . . . . |
$$ | . . . O . . . . . , . . . . . , X . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . . , . . . . . , . . . . . , . . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . X . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . O O O |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . O X X X |
$$ | . . . O . . . . . , . . . . . O X . X |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . X X O X . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . 3 O O X |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . 2 1 . |
$$ ---------------------------------------[/go]


That explains it, but can't white play:

Click Here To Show Diagram Code
[go]$$Wcm10
$$ ---------------------------------------
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . X . . . . |
$$ | . . . O . . . . . , . . . . . , X . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . . , . . . . . , . . . . . , . . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . X . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . 7 . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . O . 6 . |
$$ | . . . O . . . . . , . . . . . O X . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . 4 X O 2 . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . 3 5 . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ ---------------------------------------[/go]


@Ed Lee:

Maybe, but I always get such a bad result when I play like that that I can't see how it could become a bad habit without there being a sequence I'd missed. Konfuzed's sequence explains it though. Even if it shouldn't work, I can definitely see myself playing like white in those diagrams.
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Offline opex
 Post subject: Re: #179 - DJLLAP vs opex
Post #23 Posted: Fri Sep 07, 2012 2:49 pm 
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No free ponnukis! :)
Click Here To Show Diagram Code
[go]$$Wcm10
$$ ---------------------------------------
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . X . . . . |
$$ | . . . O . . . . . , . . . . . , X . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . . , . . . . . , . . . . . , . . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . X . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . O . . . |
$$ | . . . O . . . . . , . . . . . O X . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . X O X . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . 3 . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ ---------------------------------------[/go]
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Offline konfuzed
 Post subject: Re: #179 - DJLLAP vs opex
Post #24 Posted: Fri Sep 07, 2012 3:18 pm 
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@Splatted
Don't know for sure, but I believe this response from black rather than the tiger mouth would work in that case. White's knight move then does not take away a liberty.
Click Here To Show Diagram Code
[go]$$Bcm10
$$ ---------------------------------------
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . X . . . . |
$$ | . . . O . . . . . , . . . . . , X . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . . , . . . . . , . . . . . , . . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . X . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . 2 . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . O . . . |
$$ | . . . O . . . . . , . . . . . O X 1 . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . X X O X . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . O O . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ ---------------------------------------[/go]

If white does want to take away a liberty, I think it doesn't quite work:
Click Here To Show Diagram Code
[go]$$Bcm10
$$ ---------------------------------------
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . X . . . . |
$$ | . . . O . . . . . , . . . . . , X . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . . , . . . . . , . . . . . , . . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . X . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . 5 . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . 4 . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . O 2 3 . |
$$ | . . . O . . . . . , . . . . . O X 1 . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . X X O X . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . O O . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ ---------------------------------------[/go]
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Offline DJLLAP
 Post subject: Re: #179 - DJLLAP vs opex
Post #25 Posted: Fri Sep 07, 2012 3:49 pm 
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Click Here To Show Diagram Code
[go]$$Wcm10
$$ ---------------------------------------
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . X . . . . |
$$ | . . . O . . . . . , . . . . . , X . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . . , . . . . . , . . . . . , . . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . X . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . O . . . |
$$ | . . . O . . . . . , . . . . . O X . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . 2 X O X . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . O . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ ---------------------------------------[/go]



@Splatted
I am expecting something along the lines of the last diagram in my previous post. If he decides to play out the ko, I will play a high approach to his top left corner. If he responds, I will ignore any ko threat he makes to win the ko. If he captures I can be reasonably happy with a double approach.
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Offline EdLee
 Post subject:
Post #26 Posted: Fri Sep 07, 2012 3:52 pm 
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Splatted,
Splatted wrote:
I can't see how it could become a bad habit without...
Usually, it's because nobody (high dan or above) ever pointed out to B the real meanings
(and complicated variations) behind a certain move (like :b9:).
So people continue to play things like :b9: often (with various results)
which actually may not be a bad thing, since a lot can be learned from the experiments. :)
For example, if :b1:, a possible pro move is :w2: --
the :bc: stone (and the rest of the board) makes a huge difference for the choice of :w2:
(possible follow-ups for :w4: include (b), (c), or something else entirely).
(At least one pro game, in 2002, had :w2: after :b1:. Another pro game, in 2008, had (b) for :w2: directly.)
If :b1: at (a) instead, then maybe W will simply (e) and (f) to capture :bt:.
It's very messy -- the situation is quite different from the perspectives of some amateurs (kyus and low dans). :o
Click Here To Show Diagram Code
[go]$$B
$$. . . . . , . . . |
$$. . . . . b B c . |
$$. . . . . . 2 . . |
$$. . . . . . . . . |
$$. . . . . . . . . |
$$. . . . . O . . . |
$$. . . . . O X e . |
$$. . . . 1 X O Y . |
$$. . . . . a O f . |
$$. . . . . . . . . |
$$-------------------[/go]

This post by EdLee was liked by: The Intrepid
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Offline konfuzed
 Post subject: Re: #179 - DJLLAP vs opex
Post #27 Posted: Fri Sep 07, 2012 3:59 pm 
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I didn't realize he had already posted the same sequence :oops:
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Offline EdLee
 Post subject:
Post #28 Posted: Fri Sep 07, 2012 4:05 pm 
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konfuzed,
konfuzed wrote:
I didn't realize he had already posted the same sequence :oops:
It's OK, I also got ninja'd by DJLLAP's own :b11:. :)
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Offline Splatted
 Post subject: Re: #179 - DJLLAP vs opex
Post #29 Posted: Fri Sep 07, 2012 5:01 pm 
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@Djllap

Sorry I don't know how I missed that. :oops:


@Konfuzed:

At least you didn't ask him to repost it. ORZ

You're right. I thought I had a kill sequence for the connection as well, but it seems I missread it.


@Ed Lee:

That's really interesting. I hadn't thought of that at all.
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Offline opex
 Post subject: Re: #179 - DJLLAP vs opex
Post #30 Posted: Sat Sep 08, 2012 1:34 am 
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Click Here To Show Diagram Code
[go]$$Wcm14
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . O 2 4 . |
$$ | . . . O . . . . . , . . . . . O X 1 . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . 6 . . X X O X 5 |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . O 3 . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ ---------------------------------------[/go]

Immediate gote life is so small that i think i must be able to do better.

Click Here To Show Diagram Code
[go]$$Wcm14
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . 6 . 4 . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . O 2 3 . |
$$ | . . . O . . . . . , . . . . . O X 1 . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . X X O X . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . O 5 . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ ---------------------------------------[/go]

Black gets some thickness, right?

Click Here To Show Diagram Code
[go]$$Wcm14
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . 5 . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . O 1 4 . |
$$ | . . . O . . . . . , . . . . . O X 2 . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . X X O X . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . O 3 . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ ---------------------------------------[/go]

So now i'm thinking about this. If i manage to eat something, i think it's ok. I hope i'm not missing anything
Click Here To Show Diagram Code
[go]$$Wcm14
$$ ---------------------------------------
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . X . . . . |
$$ | . . . O . . . . . , . . . . . , X . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . . , . . . . . , . . . . . , . . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . X . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . O 1 . . |
$$ | . . . O . . . . . , . . . . . O X . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . X X O X . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . O . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ ---------------------------------------[/go]
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Offline konfuzed
 Post subject: Re: #179 - DJLLAP vs opex
Post #31 Posted: Sat Sep 08, 2012 8:09 am 
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W in trouble?

Click Here To Show Diagram Code
[go]$$Wcm14
$$ ---------------------------------------
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . X . . . . |
$$ | . . . O . . . . . , . . . . . , X . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . . , . . . . . , . . . . . , . . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . X . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . 6 . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . 5 . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . O 1 4 . |
$$ | . . . O . . . . . , . . . . . O X 2 . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . X X O X . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . O 3 . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ ---------------------------------------[/go]
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Offline DJLLAP
 Post subject: Re: #179 - DJLLAP vs opex
Post #32 Posted: Sat Sep 08, 2012 1:11 pm 
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Click Here To Show Diagram Code
[go]$$Wcm14
$$ ---------------------------------------
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . X . . . . |
$$ | . . . O . . . . . , . . . . . , X . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . . , . . . . . , . . . . . , . . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . X . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . O O . . |
$$ | . . . O . . . . . , . . . . . O X 2 . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . X X O X . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . O . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ ---------------------------------------[/go]


At first I thought I was in trouble for misreading one of the simplest variations. At first glance it looks like White wins the capturing race 4 liberties to 3 with White 14.

Click Here To Show Diagram Code
[go]$$Wcm14
$$ ---------------------------------------
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . X . . . . |
$$ | . . . O . . . . . , . . . . . , X . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . . , . . . . . , . . . . . , . . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . X . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . O O . . |
$$ | . . . O . . . . . , . . . . . O X X . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . X X O X . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . O 1 . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ ---------------------------------------[/go]


Then I remembered that two hanes equals an extra liberty. After black 19 Black wins by one liberty.

Click Here To Show Diagram Code
[go]$$Wcm14
$$ ---------------------------------------
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . X . . . . |
$$ | . . . O . . . . . , . . . . . , X . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . . , . . . . . , . . . . . , . . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . X . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . 5 . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . 3 4 |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . O O 2 . |
$$ | . . . O . . . . . , . . . . . O X X . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . X X O X . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . O 1 6 |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ ---------------------------------------[/go]


Click Here To Show Diagram Code
[go]$$Wcm14
$$ ---------------------------------------
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . X . . . . |
$$ | . . . O . . . . . , . . . . . , X . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . . , . . . . . , . . . . . , . . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . X . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . 6 5 |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . 8 3 4 |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . O O 2 7 |
$$ | . . . O . . . . . , . . . . . O X X . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . X X O X . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . O 1 . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ ---------------------------------------[/go]


This gives white a ko, but since W has to make the first Ko threat, it is pretty much unwinable at this point in the game

Therefore I expect the best play for White to be along these lines:
Click Here To Show Diagram Code
[go]$$Wcm14
$$ ---------------------------------------
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . X . . . . |
$$ | . . . O . . . . . , . . . . . , X . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . . , . . . . . , . . . . . , . . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . X . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . O O 1 . |
$$ | . . . O . . . . . , . . . . . O X X . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . X X O X . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . O 2 . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ ---------------------------------------[/go]


This gives White sente, but denies her the natural extension due to my perfectly placed pincer.
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Offline opex
 Post subject: Re: #179 - DJLLAP vs opex
Post #33 Posted: Sat Sep 08, 2012 1:25 pm 
Lives with ko
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Posts: 201
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Click Here To Show Diagram Code
[go]$$Wcm16
$$ ---------------------------------------
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . X . . . . |
$$ | . . . O . . . . . , . . . . . , X . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . . , . . . . . , . . . . . , . . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . X . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . O O . . |
$$ | . . . O . . . . . , . . . . . O X X . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . X X O X . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . O 1 . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ ---------------------------------------[/go]
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Offline DJLLAP
 Post subject: Re: #179 - DJLLAP vs opex
Post #34 Posted: Sat Sep 08, 2012 1:38 pm 
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Click Here To Show Diagram Code
[go]$$Wcm16
$$ ---------------------------------------
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . X . . . . |
$$ | . . . O . . . . . , . . . . . , X . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . . , . . . . . , . . . . . , . . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . X . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . O O 2 . |
$$ | . . . O . . . . . , . . . . . O X X . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . X X O X . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . O O . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ ---------------------------------------[/go]
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Offline opex
 Post subject: Re: #179 - DJLLAP vs opex
Post #35 Posted: Sat Sep 08, 2012 1:51 pm 
Lives with ko
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Posts: 201
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Maybe i'm greedy...
Click Here To Show Diagram Code
[go]$$Wcm18
$$ ---------------------------------------
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . X . . . . |
$$ | . . . O . . . . . , . . . . . , X . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . . , . . . . . , . . . . . , . . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . X . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . 1 . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . O O X . |
$$ | . . . O . . . . . , . . . . . O X X . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . X X O X . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . O O . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ ---------------------------------------[/go]
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Offline DJLLAP
 Post subject: Re: #179 - DJLLAP vs opex
Post #36 Posted: Sat Sep 08, 2012 2:05 pm 
Lives in gote

Posts: 602
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Click Here To Show Diagram Code
[go]$$Wcm18
$$ ---------------------------------------
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . X . . . . |
$$ | . . . O . . . . . , . . . . . , X . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . . , . . . . . , . . . . . , . . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . X . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . O 2 |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . O O X . |
$$ | . . . O . . . . . , . . . . . O X X . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . X X O X . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . O O . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ ---------------------------------------[/go]
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Offline opex
 Post subject: Re: #179 - DJLLAP vs opex
Post #37 Posted: Sat Sep 08, 2012 2:08 pm 
Lives with ko
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Posts: 201
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Can't let him out.

Is it going to be a ko?
Click Here To Show Diagram Code
[go]$$Wcm20
$$ ---------------------------------------
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . X . . . . |
$$ | . . . O . . . . . , . . . . . , X . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . . , . . . . . , . . . . . , . . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . X . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . 1 5 |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . O X |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . O O X . |
$$ | . . . O . . . . . , . . . . . O X X 4 |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . X X O X 3 |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . O O 2 |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ ---------------------------------------[/go]
Click Here To Show Diagram Code
[go]$$Wcm20
$$ ---------------------------------------
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . X . . . . |
$$ | . . . O . . . . . , . . . . . , X . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . . , . . . . . , . . . . . , . . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . X . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . 1 . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . O X |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . O O X . |
$$ | . . . O . . . . . , . . . . . O X X . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . X X O X . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . O O . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ ---------------------------------------[/go]
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Offline DJLLAP
 Post subject: Re: #179 - DJLLAP vs opex
Post #38 Posted: Sat Sep 08, 2012 2:34 pm 
Lives in gote

Posts: 602
Location: Denver, CO
Liked others: 4
Was liked: 47
Rank: 1 kyu KGS
Universal go server handle: djllap
Click Here To Show Diagram Code
[go]$$Wcm20
$$ ---------------------------------------
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . X . . . . |
$$ | . . . O . . . . . , . . . . . , X . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . . , . . . . . , . . . . . , . . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . X . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . O . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . O X |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . O O X . |
$$ | . . . O . . . . . , . . . . . O X X . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . X X O X . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . O O 2 |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ ---------------------------------------[/go]
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Offline The Intrepid
 Post subject: Re: #179 - DJLLAP vs opex
Post #39 Posted: Sat Sep 08, 2012 3:49 pm 
Lives in gote

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@DJLLAP
Initially, you were intending to play as follows. What made you reject this choice?
Click Here To Show Diagram Code
[go]$$Wcm18
$$ ---------------------------------------
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . X . . . . |
$$ | . . . O . . . . . , . . . . . , X . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . . , . . . . . , . . . . . , . . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . X . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . B . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . O . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . O O X . |
$$ | . . . O . . . . . , . . . . . O X X . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . X X O X . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . O O . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ ---------------------------------------[/go]

_________________
Ontological imperative holds that my losses occurred only in imagination.
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Offline DJLLAP
 Post subject: Re: #179 - DJLLAP vs opex
Post #40 Posted: Sat Sep 08, 2012 4:00 pm 
Lives in gote

Posts: 602
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Universal go server handle: djllap
@The Intrepid

I don't recall planning on that line of play, though it does seem to produce satisfactory results.
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Board index » L19²GO (Malkovich) » 1-on-1 Malkovich games

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