Orthodox Fuseki In the Modern Tournament Championships

SmoothOper · Post by **SmoothOper** » Fri Sep 28, 2012 7:00 am

Looking through some of the more recent tournament championships, I was surprised to see that the orthodox fuseki is used. For example both Park Younghun and Jiang Weijie used it in the 3rd World Meijin championship as well as Hane Naoki vs Yamashita Keigo in the 37th Meijin.

This surprised me because I read that the Orthodox Fuseki was considered somewhat obsolete due to komi, which forced black to be more aggressive.

emeraldemon · Post by **emeraldemon** » Fri Sep 28, 2012 7:31 am

ez4u posted some very cool graphs of the popularity of different fuseki over time:

http://www.lifein19x19.com/forum/viewto ... =10&t=5934

In particular check out this graph:

http://fukasawa.smugmug.com/Hobbies/SL/ ... -50-X3.png

SmoothOper · Post by **SmoothOper** » Fri Sep 28, 2012 7:45 am

emeraldemon wrote:ez4u posted some very cool graphs of the popularity of different fuseki over time:

http://www.lifein19x19.com/forum/viewto ... =10&t=5934

In particular check out this graph:

http://fukasawa.smugmug.com/Hobbies/SL/ ... -50-X3.png

I have seen that thread. The Orthodox fuseki is obviously popular among all shimari, but I don't see that any of those charts compare how often a shimari is played say compared to nirense.

snorri · Post by **snorri** » Fri Sep 28, 2012 11:26 am

Fashion is funny.

Yes, this was less in style for a while because in a high komi game, the wedge of

was thought to be an easy way for white to simplify the game:

Click Here To Show Diagram Code: [go]$$W wedge $$ --------------------------------------- $$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . | $$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . | $$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . | $$ | . . . O . . . . . , . . . . . X . . . | $$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . | $$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . | $$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . | $$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . | $$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . | $$ | . . . , . . . . . , . . . . . , 1 . . | $$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . | $$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . | $$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . | $$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . | $$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . | $$ | . . . O . . . . . , . . . . . . X . . | $$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . X . . . . | $$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . | $$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . | $$ ---------------------------------------[/go]

But you may have noticed that

isn't played as much any more (although it hasn't completely disappeared.)

This is because players came with some new plans as black that are pretty active and won games, such as this one:

Click Here To Show Diagram Code: [go]$$W $$ --------------------------------------- $$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . | $$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . | $$ | . . . . . 2 . 7 . . . . . . . . . . . | $$ | . . . O . . . . . 6 . . . . . X . . . | $$ | . . . . . . . 8 . . . . . . . . . . . | $$ | . . 3 . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . | $$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . | $$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . 4 . . | $$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . | $$ | . . . , . . . . . , . . . . . , 1 . . | $$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . | $$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . | $$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . 5 . . | $$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . | $$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . | $$ | . . . O . . . . . , . . . . . . X . . | $$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . X . . . . | $$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . | $$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . | $$ ---------------------------------------[/go]

Of course, white can play other ways, but there was an increase in research and experimentation in the past few years.

But you may have noticed that

isn't played as much any more (although it hasn't completely disappeared.)

This is because players came with some new plans as black that are pretty active and won games, such as this one:

Click Here To Show Diagram Code: [go]$$W $$ --------------------------------------- $$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . | $$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . | $$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . b . . . . . | $$ | . . . O . . . . . . . . a 3 . X . . . | $$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . | $$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . 1 . . | $$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . | $$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . | $$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . 2 . . | $$ | . . . , . . . . . , . . . . . , . . . | $$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . | $$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . | $$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . | $$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . | $$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . | $$ | . . . O . . . . . , . . . . . . X . . | $$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . X . . . . | $$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . | $$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . | $$ ---------------------------------------[/go]

So white started playing this

instead of the wedge. Then black started exploring a previously rare pincer of

. That's an essay in itself, but suffice it to say that normal responses from white like taking the corner or jumping are thought to be good for black by many players in this situation. So white developed odd counter-pincers at

and even 'a', leading to some funny-looking variations. Now it's popular for

to just simply keima at 'b', which you'd think would be really slow way of playing in a modern komi game, but if black can find a way to build more or fight---and young pros are pretty good and contriving ways to fight---then it's surprisingly playable. Go figure!

snorri · Post by **snorri** » Fri Sep 28, 2012 11:35 am

BTW, one of my favorite "new" fusekis is this one, which is starting to show up again when two players with fighting styles play. The funny part is it dates from 1620 or thereabouts.

Click Here To Show Diagram Code: [go]$$B $$ --------------------------------------- $$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . | $$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . | $$ | . . . 2 . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . | $$ | . . . , . . . . . , . . . . . , 1 . . | $$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . | $$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . | $$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . | $$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . | $$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . | $$ | . . . , . . . . . , . . . . . , . . . | $$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . | $$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . | $$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . | $$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . | $$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . | $$ | . . 4 , . . . . . , . . . . . , . . . | $$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . 3 . . . | $$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . | $$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . | $$ ---------------------------------------[/go]

Baduk TV has a good English VOD on a game between Mok Chin-seok and Won Seongjin that started this way. In 2009. And somehow it turns into a moyo game, so players are creative.

SmoothOper · Post by **SmoothOper** » Fri Sep 28, 2012 11:41 am

snorri wrote:Fashion is funny.

Go figure!

That is interesting. So because black can ignore the invasion which doesn't have enough tempo, and make a mini Chinese/Kobayshi type approach, white is forced to fight the pincher. Which seems to be fairly consistent with Cho U's book on the double keima. It is starting to make sense.

Phelan · Post by **Phelan** » Mon Oct 01, 2012 2:56 am

snorri wrote:But you may have noticed that isn't played as much any more (although it hasn't completely disappeared.)

This is because players came with some new plans as black that are pretty active and won games, such as this one:

But you may have noticed that isn't played as much any more (although it hasn't completely disappeared.)

This is because players came with some new plans as black that are pretty active and won games, such as this one:

Copy paste error?

Life In 19x19

Orthodox Fuseki In the Modern Tournament Championships

Orthodox Fuseki In the Modern Tournament Championships

Re: Orthodox Fuseki In the Modern Tournament Championships

Re: Orthodox Fuseki In the Modern Tournament Championships

Re: Orthodox Fuseki In the Modern Tournament Championships

Re: Orthodox Fuseki In the Modern Tournament Championships

Re: Orthodox Fuseki In the Modern Tournament Championships

Re: Orthodox Fuseki In the Modern Tournament Championships