Like the wind...

tomukaze · Post by **tomukaze** » Sun Sep 16, 2012 8:51 am

Interesting. Thank you emeraldemon! I like your suggestions.

@ Splatted. Any suggestions for 36? I was thinking atari and getting out, but it would just be a snake like group with no nice shape at all.

konfuzed · Post by **konfuzed** » Sun Sep 16, 2012 9:25 am

I may be no stronger than you are but I will tell you what I thought when I looked at the position.

Well, if you saved that snake/dragon it may or may not be bad. I see what you are saying. You are weak, but if you do not sacrifice the h13 group he has some weak stones too. But if we are to make the move under the assumption that that bringing that snake/dragon out gives you a bad result right now...

If you have decided to give up your h13 group, do your g12 stones still have enough value to spend a move just to make them safe? I think they might not be worth as much as taking some big point elsewhere, and they aren't really cutting his group anymore if you are giving him the chance to capture your other cutting stones.

tomukaze · Post by **tomukaze** » Mon Sep 17, 2012 8:33 am

Thanks Konfuzed.

Well another disaster today. I seem to keep creating weak groups and just can't seem to find the right way to use the aji of my stones. :scratch:

It just backfires alot . Need more study :study:

Well here is the game I played earlier.

skydyr · Post by **skydyr** » Mon Sep 17, 2012 1:23 pm

The big thing I noticed about this last game is that white kept creating groups and then letting them get sealed in. By move 50, black has a moyo spanning the entire board, and white has a medium corner, a bit of a side, and a loose moyo along the bottom. If white's groups weren't sealed, that moyo would have holes on three or four sides, and be very penetrable, even if black had a bit more secure territory in exchange.

Splatted · Post by **Splatted** » Mon Sep 17, 2012 3:31 pm

tomukaze wrote:@ Splatted. Any suggestions for 36? I was thinking atari and getting out, but it would just be a snake like group with no nice shape at all.

Like konfuzed said (including the bit about being the same rank), those stones aren't really worth all that much, so saving them isn't worth it. It's sente, so it probably doesn't matter that there are other big moves, but what is important is that black gains more from the exchange than you. As I see it, you fixed your aji in exchange for letting black fix his, which is a good idea in some situations but probably wasn't in this one because black's aji is both more severe and worth more than yours. You could happily sacrifice those two stones, but like konfuzed said, black's weakness at at H12 means you could possibly attack K13 and J15 as well, and he really doesn't want to let you do that.

I'm honestly not sure what you should have done instead, but I don't think breaking out is such a bad idea at this stage. You may not be able to catch the H12 stone in a lader, but I would say it's weaker than your H13 group would be once it's broken out, and he can't afford to let it die if he wants to attack your group. Of course, your G11 stones then become important and weak in exactly the same way, but it's definitely not going to be easy for black. Add to that weakness of the other side (what happens if you cut at k14 after breaking out? Can he save both groups?) and breaking out starts to look pretty tempting.

More generally, I think the reason you have problem profiting from aji is that you keep trying to live with it. Whenever I'm considering trying to live with some weak stones I like to remind myself of this somewhat simplified definition I came up with for what's aji and what's a weak group.

Weak groups are weak stones that you are not willing to let die. They are a weakness for your opponent to exploit.

Aji stones are weak stones you are willing to let die. They are a weakness for you to exploit.

I found http://gogameguru.com/go-commentary-shi ... th-lg-cup/ to be very thought provoking in this regard.

konfuzed · Post by **konfuzed** » Mon Sep 17, 2012 7:32 pm

I agree that focusing on that aji vs weak groups distinction could be very helpful to you based on some of these games. Also, when you give your opponent a solid position on the outside, it has a certain value. In the latest game you posted, some of the positions you were giving your opponent had a higher value than what you gained by living with your stones. So when you are playing, it is always a good idea to think of what stones the opponent will get at the end of the sequence and whether those will be more valuable than what you are trying to get. As skydyr mentioned, sealing you in is enormously valuable to your opponent. So is solidifying his territory by attacking a heavy group (move 79+). So I think playing lightly, sabaki, leaving aji instead of trying to live with every stone, and avoiding getting sealed in are things that could give you a better result.

That's about it for my thoughts, I think I will leave this one to the stronger players now.

Bill Spight · Post by **Bill Spight** » Mon Sep 17, 2012 9:13 pm

A few comments.

Edit: Added variation in the variation for :b82:

Edit: Corrected variation at :b22:

Edit: Extended another of the :b22:

variations for clarity

tomukaze · Post by **tomukaze** » Tue Sep 18, 2012 5:36 am

@Bill: Thank you! Looks like lots of mistakes there.

@Splatted: That game you referenced was very nice! Yes I like your definitions of weak vs. aji stones. Will try and keep that in mind.

tomukaze · Post by **tomukaze** » Sat Sep 22, 2012 2:36 am

198 moves and the game was over, perhaps sooner...

Comments? Suggestions? Scoldings?

tomukaze · Post by **tomukaze** » Mon Oct 01, 2012 8:16 am

So where am I at the moment: Quite demoralized actually by some recent reviewed games from the NGA. It's is like the stones I am placing on the board are in fact the worst move at that time. I wonder if high dan players are slightly autistic and don't understand that their words have meaning and impact on another human being? Of course I am generalizing. They say Mathematicians/Scientist can be like this as well.
My biggest problem- I don't read. I prefer to play on instinct and feeling. If I try something out but don't read it out completely then I get berated for it, but doesn't God love a trier? 頑張ります!
What are your biggest problems at the moment?

I think I'll go and study some Kanji 漢字 now to cheer myself up.

Boidhre · Post by **Boidhre** » Mon Oct 01, 2012 8:18 am

Not reading is a problem for me too as we've discussed. I think it's just a bad habit that needs to be gotten rid of. Perhaps we don't read because reading is hard and playing on instinct is easy?

skydyr · Post by **skydyr** » Mon Oct 01, 2012 9:38 am

Some comments:

Move 9: When black has played the joseki in the bottom left, the aim is generally to make points on the lower side, but when black then pincers white this way, white is naturally pushed into the area that black wants to make points. In addition, with the far approach to the 3-4 stone, a pincer is less severe than against a more normal approach, and being high makes it harder to attack as well, so white is able to attack more freely without worrying about his group. Instead, black could consider reinforcing the bottom with something like a keima, or making a normal corner enclosure and reinforcing the two stones on the left when white presses them.

Move 17: Move 15 aims to connect the two black stones in exchange for letting white take territory on the bottom, but this move asks to take territory on the bottom in exchange for the stone on the left. This leads to black's broken shape.

Move 31: Another broken shape. After this move, any attempts by black to strengthen one of the two bottom groups will result in the other getting weaker. Consider connecting under instead.

Move 43: There is no need for black to run to the center here, as black is already alive. Instead, pushing white from above to make him run to the center would set up a huge black moyo.

Move 75: Here, black has great moyo potential in the top right center, but when black pushes white from below, white needs to move out to get eyespace, and the only place to do that is by pushing into black's potential moyo. If black played O10 instead of white, white could make an eye on the right, but wouldn't damage black's territory that much in the process, and black would have a lot more gain in the center.

Move 125: Splitting white to get an attackable group is a great idea, but locally, white is stronger than black, so you need to make sure that your attacking stone can't be cut off, or that you can live underneath if that's how white tries to deal with it.

Later on, black spends a lot of time trying to kill the white group based around p6, but that group is pretty strong and probably not killable. If you are going to attack, you need to have an aim aside from killing, or you end up with weak shapes and often ruin your own territory in the process. You can think of it as being a cowboy; you want the opponents stones to survive, but you press them so they run in particular directions. If your opponent is conceding huge walls or some nice territory to you in exchange for running on dame points, you have already won.

I know it's kind of cliche, but you may want to consider looking at a book on shape, or at Attack and Defense.

Regarding the criticism of moves, it can come off as harsh, but unless there's something particularly brilliant to emphasize, I don't know that you actually learn much from hearing that your play is fine, unless you have a question about whether it is in an area or not. It is easier to talk about this if you make a mention of your intentions and ideas behind the moves as well, since sometimes the right idea is there, but one has trouble finding the right move to implement it, or misreads. Not all players have the same idea with a given move, after all. You can also safely assume that apart from the moves criticised, the other moves are all unremarkable because they are normal, and therefor good.

tomukaze · Post by **tomukaze** » Mon Oct 01, 2012 9:55 am

@skydyr
Thank you for the comments! I am referring to blatant demoralizing comments rather than constructive criticism which I am all for. I am reading both those books at the moment actually, but bad habits are hard to prevent when one has been playing a certain way for an year and a half.

@Boidhre: I agree, reading is hard and playing on instinct is easy. Too much blitz is the problem there.

tomukaze · Post by **tomukaze** » Wed Oct 03, 2012 8:06 am

Had a game online today. A fighting game until I fell asleep and lost the centre stones. Passion is coming back for the game after the horrendousness earlier in the week.
I think it was over by move 144.

mitsun · Post by **mitsun** » Wed Oct 03, 2012 3:34 pm

Games below dan level are almost always won by fighting mistakes or outright blunders. The quickest way to improve at your level is to get better at fighting. Studying tesuji can help with this, as can game reviews, but there is no substitute for reading.

In earlier posts, you indicated that you do not like reading and prefer to play on instinct. Sorry if I sound discouraging, but that is going to hold back your progress. A professional has good enough instincts to get away with this (when playing an amateur), but you and I do not.

Reading takes time and effort. In this game, it appears you played the first 100 moves at a pace of 6 seconds per move. That is way too fast to permit serious reading. I suggest playing some much slower games, at least when you intend to learn from those games.

As a side anecdote, a professional player once visited my Go club and played some blitz games against the strongest players. He gave 6-Dans a handicap of 6 stones in games with a time limit of 10 seconds per move. Every one of the amateurs played a good opening and had a huge lead well into the middle game, but all lost badly in the middle game fighting and resigned before the endgame. The amateurs were a bit surprised by this result, but the professional pretty much knew this would happen, based on the time limit.

Enough of the demoralizing comments and on to the constructive criticism:

:b23:

Good strategic decision, no reading needed (yet)! Since B has a large capture at P18 for later, W gains very little by capturing the N17 stone. B should be happy to give up this stone in return for strength on the other side.

:b25:

This is a common position worthy of some study and reading practice. The game move is not bad, but a better continuation would be to hane on top, trying to force W into a more over-concentrated shape. This would be a good instinct or tesuji. However, it should still be backed up by reading. In particular, can W respond by cutting? Try out some continuations to convince yourself that this would be unreasonable. Further question for study -- if W answers L15 at M15, how can B play to gain a big advantage? There are at least three continuations to read out.

:b35:

B had a golden opportunity here to push through at D15 and capture something. Read a few moves into this and you will see that W ends up with too many cutting points to defend and collapses. You devoted 10 seconds to this move, but if you had spent a full minute or two, you could have secured a big win.

:b41:

This is a strong counter-attack, and it might be very good, but it gets very complicated very quickly. The simple continuation at H14 should also be considered. I am not sure which is better (and unfortunately even a lot of reading might not help me here).

:b45:

Hane and connect is good intuition and great shape, but could B just push through M15 and cut, capturing three stones? It would take me far more than three seconds to read this out, but since it potentially ends the game, it seems worth the effort.

:b69:

At this point (or preferably earlier), I would pause to read out the life-and-death problem here. If B gets to play H18, is this group alive? In the game, the question did not arise, because W did not block at move 70. If W did block, how would B continue? Can B cut and win the capturing race? Or does B have to live first? If B does live, can W also live or does that leave W dead?

:b81:

Great move. B appears to be in control of the game now.
:w82:

Thin but nice try, offering lots of fighting chances. The rest of the game is too complicated for me.

Life In 19x19

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