Hello all

Up until some point in September 2012, my only knowledge of Go was of an English verb. Then I saw a game in progress, and was immediately fascinated by the intricacy and possibilities of the gameplay, and the vastness of the board. Suddenly chess looked very cramped.

After a lifetime of comfortably playing chess, the open, abstract nature and steep learning curve of Go have come as a shock, and I am struggling to get my head around the basics. I could probably recite all the rules, but converting that knowledge into playing a competent game is a challenge, so I will probably stay in the beginners area for a while.

Peter

Welcome!

Would you think that the chess learning curve is not as steep? (I can't know because I do not play chess.)

Welcome.

I think it is easier to get started in chess, because all your pieces are already on the board, you know exactly where your opponent is, and you have a clear target to aim for. On the Go board, you have very little in the way of signposts or clues where to play. And I think it is easier to learn the moves for 6 pieces than to learn which Go shapes are good or bad. Concepts like false eyes and ko can be difficult to see.

But I am probably biased because I learnt chess so long ago.

This explains the very early learning difficulty of either game, but what about the chess learning curve of stronger players?

Both games take decades to master, but I think chess players reach their peak and then plateau more quickly as the game is narrower (fewer moves each turn) and so memory of openings becomes more important, and one can only remember so many. Chess is more tactical than strategic, so I think chess players peak aged around 30-40 as their memory and calculating ability begin to decline, whereas Go players continue to get better their whole lives as their intuition builds?

_________________
Regards,

Peter

Welcome! For Go pros (and amateurs), something analogous also happens, especially in pro tournaments
where they have much shorter time controls (say 2-hour initial time, plus 60-second byoyomi)
as opposed to the much longer time controls of other pro tourneys (say, 8 hours for each player, spread over 2 consecutive days).
Of course, there are the occasional exceptions, like Fujisawa Shuko.

Don't worry. You've got the right attitude, from what I see from your post. A suggestion: Play as much as you can, especially 9x9 boards(faster and easier to see consequences of moves there)
The first kyu ranks are the easiest to get past just by trying.

_________________
a1h1 [1d]: You just need to curse the gods and defend.
Good Go = Shape.
Associação Portuguesa de Go

I would like to play more on KGS, but all the players on there are much stronger and I get de-moralised when my game goes wrong so quickly. Plus I feel under pressure to move quickly. I know playing against a computer is not ideal, but at least I can take my time, and not annoy anyone with a worthless game.

_________________
Regards,

Peter

Join the Life in 19x19 room and I'm sure you'll find plenty of us are happy to give you 9x9 games.

No-one in L19 wanted to play

_________________
Regards,

Peter

I saw this message, and logged in to kgs, and you were gone

Welcome!

People in the L19 room are friendly, but there aren't a lot of people there, and most of the L19'ers logged in at any given moment aren't playing go, so it might take them a while to see your message (if they're at their computers at all...). The Beginners room and the KGS Teaching Ladder (KTL) room are more obvious place for a beginner to get some 9x9 teaching games.

Yeah, I thought the Beginners Room would be full of 20k-30k, but most of them are 10k-20k.

I can keep going with igowin until I have dragged myself up a bit more.

_________________
Regards,

Peter

Most of the 10k, who have benefitted a great deal from teaching games with players in the 1d-5k range, will actually be overjoyed to have a chance to pay it forward to someone in the 20k-30k range. Don't worry about it. If you get someone even better than 10k, so much the better.

Ask for a teaching game.

I'm in a similar situation. I've read a few basic introductory books and started doing problems (I would recommend 321go.org for an easily accessible start), but I'm obviously still very much a beginner.

So I worry about wasting stronger players' time on KGS; I also worry about misrepresenting myself to absolute beginners, I feel like I'm sandbagging when I beat them. Net result: I end up playing the weaker bots only, and I'm actually unlearning what little I knew already. My advice is: don't go down that path (as many others here keep repeating to beginners, many of whom apparently have the same impulses ).

I'm sibbedeus on KGS, hope I see you around!

Hi eldritch,

I will look out for you on KGS, I think we could have a good game!

Peter

_________________
Regards,

Peter

I second this. 321go comes along with a course and tons of exercises that will teach you the basics and take you to 15-12k much faster than just by playing.

Where in England are you? You may have a local club, check www.britgo.org