Click Here To Show Diagram Code

[go]$$Bc
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$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . . X . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . O . . X . . X . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . . O . . . . . , . . . . . O . . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . O . . |
$$ | . . O . . . . . . . . . . . . O X . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . X . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . X O X . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . . , . . . . . , . . . . . , X . . |
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$$ | . . . O . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . . X . Q . . . , . . . Q . X . . . |
$$ | . . . . X O . . . . . O . O X . . . . |
$$ | . . . . X W . . . . . . O X . X . . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ +---------------------------------------+[/go]

I was Black, in only about my 6th 19x19 game.

Looking mainly at the bottom half of the board:
Black started off with both the 4-4 points;
White approached each one high, with the triangle stones;
In each case, Black blocked vertically.

Now, with the bottom quarter of the board split roughly equally in terms of territory, should Black be satisfied with this outcome?

My feeling is No, since he started off strong in this area, and now it is only shared, plus White has better access to the wide open centre.

My understanding of this is very weak though, so I would be grateful for any thoughts.

_________________
Regards,

Peter

This outcome is certainly better for black, for the reasons you mentioned. In addition to fairly certain territory, the center acces provides room for development and is a lifeline if he decides to create a weak group somewhere.

If white approached high, your chance for improvement is most likely in the way you handled that approach.

I feel like you played C3 and Q3 in response, is that right? This is most likely not a good response in this situation, it is better to back off. The C3 / Q3 move works well in response to a low approach when you have a stone around K3, because the K3 stone takes away white's base and the kick (C3/Q3) defends the corner. If approached high when you have a stone around K3, then in most cases a pincer is the best response I think.

I hope my explanation is clear.

Peter, if possible, please post the SGF -- the sequence matters (sometimes).
(There's already some funny shapes going on, so we might as well fix them while we're at it. )Maybe some terminology mixup... you mean you replied with the diagonal moves (E3 and P3) in both cases?

_________________
Regards,

Peter

Peter, thanks for the SGF. Continue to play more games.
If you have the SGF for this completed game, consider posting it, too. A few notes:

Thanks Ed

I should NOT have missed those elephant eyes. I know that shape!

On move 21, why is q6 good? Because of the q4 kosumi, or to outline a moyo in that corner?

On move 23, why is a solid connection better?

_________________
Regards,

Peter

Hi DeFlow,

Do you mean it is better for White?

_________________
Regards,

Peter

For , for now, just get an idea for Q6, for this shape.
For , if W ataris next at O1, and you connect at P2 -- look at this resulting shape:
if you had connected directly at P2 on , and now if W plays O1, would you play Q2? (One reason.)Continue to play more games; post the SGF of this entire game if you like.

Oh, of course.

It takes ages to go from "I knew that shape!" to always seeing it when reading. It's rather annoying!

Boidhre, you're improving.

Haha.

I can't; it's too embarrassing

It went steadily downhill, the majority of which was tactical errors, and I can understand them on playing it back. This wide-open-board stage was the part of the game where I felt most lost.

_________________
Regards,

Peter

Don't be embarrassed. Seriously. In my first game on kgs we forgot to mark a 30 pt group as dead.

I see - White gets to play O1 almost as a free move.

_________________
Regards,

Peter

The upper right corner is a bit baffling. After white pincers, black's move is odd, and after that, I have no idea what either side should play. See http://senseis.xmp.net/?44PointLowAppro ... eLowPincer

_________________
Occupy Babel!

It's not just beginners that make stupid mistakes. I recently forgot I was in the middle of fighting a 30 point ko and played a 2 point endgame instead. What's even worse is that we were still firmly in the middlegame and it would have been a terrible move regardless.