Good job guys!

[quantumf]

so... the shouldn't listen to feedback? innovation is certainly not impossible if you have to listen to you customer base. the reason people are complaining is because it isn't working.

A random check just done now - 28 players online, six games being played (i.e. 12/28 or 42% of online players playing a game). At the same time, KGS has 1648 players online, with 449 games (54% of online players playing a game). This does not strike me as clear evidence of "not working" system. However, 28 players is a tiny sample, so even if the figure was only one game, it would still not constitute proof of the position that the system is not working. It will be easier to judge when there is a far larger group of online players.

[speedchase]

A random check just done now - 28 players online, six games being played (i.e. 12/28 or 42% of online players playing a game). At the same time, KGS has 1648 players online, with 449 games (54% of online players playing a game). This does not strike me as clear evidence of "not working" system. However, 28 players is a tiny sample, so even if the figure was only one game, it would still not constitute proof of the position that the system is not working. It will be easier to judge when there is a far larger group of online players.

Perhaps. That statement was based on the fact that usually there are at most 3 games going on.
I just counted- 29 people on line, and 4 games, which is also better than usual based on my experiences
edit: sorry 3 games 1 review

[shapenaji]

A random check just done now - 28 players online, six games being played (i.e. 12/28 or 42% of online players playing a game). At the same time, KGS has 1648 players online, with 449 games (54% of online players playing a game). This does not strike me as clear evidence of "not working" system. However, 28 players is a tiny sample, so even if the figure was only one game, it would still not constitute proof of the position that the system is not working. It will be easier to judge when there is a far larger group of online players.

This reminds me of this comic:



give Kaya some more time, it could get to 100%

[daal]

so... the shouldn't listen to feedback? innovation is certainly not impossible if you have to listen to you customer base. the reason people are complaining is because it isn't working.

I think there's no evidence that Gabriel isn't listening. He's just not agreeing. Just because he doesn't change his mind as soon as the mob starts to grumble doesn't mean that he won't fix it if he comes to believe that it's not working. At the moment, he likes the way it is, despite the vocal majority here, but that doesn't mean he doesn't hear what people are saying or that he will never change his mind.

Also, people are complaining not because it's not working, they're complaining because they don't like the wayit works.

[speedchase]

so... the shouldn't listen to feedback? innovation is certainly not impossible if you have to listen to you customer base. the reason people are complaining is because it isn't working.

I think there's no evidence that Gabriel isn't listening. He's just not agreeing. Just because he doesn't change his mind as soon as the mob starts to grumble doesn't mean that he won't fix it if he comes to believe that it's not working. At the moment, he likes the way it is, despite the vocal majority here, but that doesn't mean he doesn't hear what people are saying or that he will never change his mind.

Also, people are complaining not because it's not working, they're complaining because they don't like the wayit works.

1. I never said he wasn't listening, someone seemed to think the current advice/listening to advice conversation wasn't working, which was what I was objecting too.
2. it isn't working (at least not as well as KGS). there is no how about it, this system is showing worse results than KGS in any reasonable measure.

[Tami]

Don`t you think we should leave this alone for now?

We`ve presented good reasons for allowing accept/decline at the least, but ultimately we have no right to try to force Gabriel and Pato to change their minds. It`s their server, and they get to decide.

Besides, the harder you try to make somebody agree with you, the more they will resent it, even if you are correct. It`s not the end of the world if you cannot reject your challenger on Kaya. It could turn out, in practice, to have little impact on how enjoyable the server is to play. It could be that Gabriel and Pato are right, and we are wrong, and that their way makes the experience more enjoyable. If we give them space to change their minds without feeling cornered, then they might, but again, it`s their choice. It could be that we beat them into submission with iron bars of irrefutable logic, but do you think they would like that?

Respecting others` opinions and decisions, even when you disagree, indeed passionately disagree, is ultimately to respect yourself, because if you can acknowledge and defend their boundaries, you can also recognise and protect your own.

[badukJr]

Pick some system then. Kaya doesn't really have a 'system'. It honestly feels unfinished.
The only pro that you keep bringing up is that no time is wasted. You get to save 20 or 30 seconds over other systems (to play a game that takes an hour or two).
There are so many cons that have been voiced in this thread. Real cons. For example the abuse issue of this system, you want to fix it when it becomes a problem. Why wait? Why wait until the server population gets large, and it becomes a problem, and you have to spend a week coding a solution? While everyone vacates the server because it gets difficult to find a proper game? Its kind of crazy to stonewall like this, I seriously don't understand.

It is your server, do what you want. It is just frustrating because earlier on you pounded your chest about adding Fischer time because its what the PEOPLE wanted, man. Now it seems like what the people want means squat-all. You are being dismissive with pretty bad reasoning in my opinion.

It does not serve the community or Kaya to get riled up in a feature conversation. It is also silly to want to make a stronger argument by appealing to attack our intents or our way to work.

Kaya has the most broad and extensive user feedback system than any other server out there by 100 miles. Over 40 user requested features were implemented. Those are tracked, commented and done. Between the tweaki, email, chat and partially this forum, saying that we dont listen to our users is disregarding for the respectful every-day work we do.

I welcome this conversation on Kaya or the other official Kaya channels, where its much harder to get riled up and its a lot more practical when it comes to describing desires.

Keep tuned for what is coming next! There is likely going to be a mid release this weekend with a new feature provided by aleski

Regards.

I saw this conversation happen on Kaya and it played out exactly the same way. It doesn't make a difference.
I was hoping we'd get a server admin less stubborn about things than wms, but we've somehow ended up with one more stubborn.
Extensive user feedback systems can be a farce. Take listener requests on the radio. 99% of the stations just record a listener call that requests a song they were going to play anyway, its a good way to involve the people without involving the people.

Lets have a look at the most popular on the tweaki -
Game Start Timer - 122 Votes
Been 100% nixed here and other places, not going to happen

Go Houses, Teams, or Clans - 106 Votes
"this is a requirement for users, not us." nixed

An open API - 97 Votes
Negative feedback from Kaya, no update on decision for over a year

Achievement System - 72 Votes
Probably going to get implemented! - more than a year ago

Earn ratings points for AGA/EGA - 60 Votes
30 Community comments and no feedback from Kaya

Profile images should be saved on the server - 58 Votes
Posted since April and no feedback from Kaya

Database of games and patterns - 51 Votes
Go use eidogo.com - Kaya

Much larger clocks - 45 Votes
No feedback from Kaya

Integrated Tsumengo - 43 Votes
"I am working on this right now" 11 Months ago

Separate Ranks - 41 Votes
"Like this one" but no update from over a year ago

Most of the 'started' ideas were started over a year ago, and a lot of the completed ideas were things that people suggested that were already implemented (see the radio request comparison)

You basically pumped up all these ideas early on through the tweaki and got people to throw you five figures, I think they got a right to grouse when you stonewall on a necessary feature (really). You don't have to implement the features, but I think its kind of lame to try to stop discussion on it.

[Kaya.gs]

I saw this conversation happen on Kaya and it played out exactly the same way. It doesn't make a difference.
I was hoping we'd get a server admin less stubborn about things than wms, but we've somehow ended up with one more stubborn.
Extensive user feedback systems can be a farce. Take listener requests on the radio. 99% of the stations just record a listener call that requests a song they were going to play anyway, its a good way to involve the people without involving the people.

I have not had this discussion on Kaya ever(At least i cant recall having it). Come to Kaya today and lets discuss it with the users.

Regards.

[Mef]

Earn ratings points for AGA/EGA - 60 Votes
30 Community comments and no feedback from Kaya

To be fair, the major barrier here will be dealing with the organizations themselves. As far as I know there is some resistance to using online games for "real life" rating purposes (and perhaps rightly so!).

[speedchase]

To be fair, the major barrier here will be dealing with the organizations themselves. As far as I know there is some resistance to using online games for "real life" rating purposes (and perhaps rightly so!).

also to be fair, more than half those comments are me arguing with someone about it.

[Annihilist]

Can we have a downloadable client as an option? I personally don't like the in-browser interface, because everything opens in new windows and gets messy. I don't like using multiple browser windows at once.

Just my two cents.

[lobotommy]

Can we have a downloadable client as an option? I personally don't like the in-browser interface, because everything opens in new windows and gets messy. I don't like using multiple browser windows at once.

Just my two cents.

But what OS? Linux, Windows, OSX, iOS, Android, Windows Phone? I would like it too but it could end as very limited and not pleasing experience. Such client/app is hell of a work for such small team. WWW means universal.

[oren]

But what OS? Linux, Windows, OSX, iOS, Android, Windows Phone? I would like it too but it could end as very limited and not pleasing experience. Such client/app is hell of a work for such small team. WWW means universal.

I don't often care when there's news about facebook, but I think their experience sums up what I feel about Kaya.

http://techcrunch.com/2012/09/11/mark-z ... -on-html5/

You just can't beat native...

To your question, I would do a Java client, an android client, and an iPhone app. If you're using reasonable APIs, it's not too difficult.

[Xa17u]

You just can't beat native...

This is absolutely true for mobiles. I don't think anyone doubts that.

A client for desktop environments would make no sense whatsoever though. I can't think of a single advantage it'd bring; lots of inconveniences though.

[oren]

[
A client for desktop environments would make no sense whatsoever though. I can't think of a single advantage it'd bring; lots of inconveniences though.

I've seen a few browser issues, and it seems like the UI suffers a bit. I would prefer Java client such as gGo or KGS over what Kaya currently has.