countering kobayashi

speedchase · Post by **speedchase** » Thu Nov 01, 2012 5:44 pm

Click Here To Show Diagram Code: [go]$$W1 ? $$ --------------------------------------- $$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . | $$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . | $$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . | $$ | . . . , . . . . . , . . . . . , . . . | $$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . | $$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . | $$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . | $$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . | $$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . | $$ | . . . , . . . . . , . . . . . , . . . | $$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . | $$ | . . . . 6 . . . . . . . . . . . . . . | $$ | . . 5 . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . | $$ | . . 1 4 . . . . . . . . . . . . O . . | $$ | . . . 2 . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . | $$ | . 3 . , . . . . . X . . . . . O . . . | $$ | . . . X . . . . . . . . . X . . . . . | $$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . | $$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . | $$ ---------------------------------------[/go]

I know that the moves through 6 are joseki. What should white do in this situation?

Uberdude · Post by **Uberdude** » Thu Nov 01, 2012 5:56 pm

Say thank you for black playing such a soft move as

, as it allows white to come up onto the 4th line at d9. Black should press white lower, d9 is usual. Do not get intimidated by black making territory between his wall and k4, it is not enough to win the game. The invasion at m3 is also something for you to look forward to in the future.

ez4u · Post by **ez4u** » Thu Nov 01, 2012 6:17 pm

speedchase wrote:
$$W1 ?
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$$ | . . . . 6 . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . 5 . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . 1 4 . . . . . . . . . . . . O . . |
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Click Here To Show Diagram Code
[go]$$W1 ? $$ --------------------------------------- $$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . | $$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . | $$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . | $$ | . . . , . . . . . , . . . . . , . . . | $$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . | $$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . | $$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . | $$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . | $$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . | $$ | . . . , . . . . . , . . . . . , . . . | $$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . | $$ | . . . . 6 . . . . . . . . . . . . . . | $$ | . . 5 . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . | $$ | . . 1 4 . . . . . . . . . . . . O . . | $$ | . . . 2 . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . | $$ | . 3 . , . . . . . X . . . . . O . . . | $$ | . . . X . . . . . . . . . X . . . . . | $$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . | $$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . | $$ ---------------------------------------[/go]
I know that the moves through 6 are joseki. What should white do in this situation?

" It isn't what we don't know that gives us trouble, it's what we know that ain't so." - Will Rogers

I think that you might be confusing things with the 'joseki' below where Black pushes once more before playing the keima. The normal response is simply the two-space jump to

. Per GoGoD

through

last appeared in 2003 (and only occasionally before that). It is not part of the modern professional arsenal. Your version does not exist in the Kobayashi.

Click Here To Show Diagram Code: [go]$$Wc 'Joseki' $$ --------------------------------------- $$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . | $$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . | $$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . | $$ | . . . , . . . . . , . . . . . , . . . | $$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . | $$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . | $$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . | $$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . | $$ | . . 9 . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . | $$ | . . . , . . . . . , . . . . . , . . . | $$ | . . . . 8 . . . . . . . . . . . . . . | $$ | . . 7 . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . | $$ | . . 5 6 . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . | $$ | . . 1 4 . . . . . . . . . . . . O . . | $$ | . . . 2 . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . | $$ | . 3 . , . . . . . X . . . . . O . . . | $$ | . . . X . . . . . . . . . X . . . . . | $$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . | $$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . | $$ ---------------------------------------[/go]

speedchase · Post by **speedchase** » Thu Nov 01, 2012 8:37 pm

ez4u wrote:
speedchase wrote: I know that the moves through 6 are joseki. What should white do in this situation?
" It isn't what we don't know that gives us trouble, it's what we know that ain't so." - Will Rogers

I meant for white. I had no idea what joseki for black is. I just posted this because someone played this against me, and I wasn't sure to do here. Thank you both for your help!

mitsun · Post by **mitsun** » Fri Nov 02, 2012 9:59 am

ez4u wrote: "It isn't what we don't know that gives us trouble, it's what we know that ain't so." - Will Rogers

This is a fine quotation for Go players. It has mostly been attributed to Mark Twain:
“It ain't what you don't know that gets you into trouble. It's what you know for sure that just ain't so.”

But apparently* the original author was Josh Billings:
"The trouble with people is not that they don’t know but that they know so much that ain’t so"
“Wisdom don’t consist in knowing more that is new, but in knowing less that is false”
“I honestly believe it is better to know nothing than to know what ain’t so”

* http://www.forbes.com/2009/08/12/nigel- ... -rees.html

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