What is the most up-to-date english book? Is there any better book in another language, that I could decently read without knowing the language at all?
Also im interested in such things as probes to see how the opponent will respond before choosing a joseki that you often hear korean pros talk about
Example:
Most up-to-date joseki dictionary
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rlaalswo
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Re: Most up-to-date joseki dictionary
For the joseki book, I've replied you in a similar post viewtopic.php?f=15&t=7085
move number 2 is questionable, playing at a is much normal.
Here is the continuation. You can see the exact same pattern in many pro games played recently.
Sometimes also this one.
Connection for the probe is considered inferior in modern research.
move number 2 is questionable, playing at a is much normal.
Here is the continuation. You can see the exact same pattern in many pro games played recently.
Sometimes also this one.
Connection for the probe is considered inferior in modern research.
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RobertJasiek
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Re: Most up-to-date joseki dictionary
NoSkill wrote:What is the most up-to-date english book?
Those published recently and having contents that is checked with databases.
Also im interested in such things as probes to see how the opponent will respond before choosing a joseki
Concerning early joseki probes, the best sources are fuseki books. The best books on strategic choices in joseki are those having such contents, except that fuseki books are a better source for early joseki probes. "such things as" is a wide field; please specify more clearly what else you are interested in.
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Uberdude
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Re: Most up-to-date joseki dictionary
It's not the most up-to-date (about 10 years old) but [sl=ADictionaryOfModernFusekiTheKoreanStyle]this Korean style fuseki book[/sl] has a chapter on exactly that approach probe you asked about. Also I (and more importantly the many pros who have played it) disagree with rlaalwso that 
is questionable. Certainly the shape he shows is the latest fashion, but I'm not aware (please explain the new judgement if I am wrong) that the outside approach is considered inferior.
There is also Takao's newer joseki dictionary, but that's just joseki not fuseki. I really like that Korean fuseki book and credit it with a large part of my fuseki understanding. I think it would be a good fit for the self-professed gaps in NoSkill's game.
is questionable. Certainly the shape he shows is the latest fashion, but I'm not aware (please explain the new judgement if I am wrong) that the outside approach is considered inferior. There is also Takao's newer joseki dictionary, but that's just joseki not fuseki. I really like that Korean fuseki book and credit it with a large part of my fuseki understanding. I think it would be a good fit for the self-professed gaps in NoSkill's game.
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p2501
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Re: Most up-to-date joseki dictionary
It is a good practice to complement a josekibook with a database of professional games of your own. It is very interesting to see what josekis are more popular and in what positions.
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NoSkill
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Re: Most up-to-date joseki dictionary
Uberdude wrote:It's not the most up-to-date (about 10 years old) but [sl=ADictionaryOfModernFusekiTheKoreanStyle]this Korean style fuseki book[/sl] has a chapter on exactly that approach probe you asked about. Also I (and more importantly the many pros who have played it) disagree with rlaalwso that
There is also Takao's newer joseki dictionary, but that's just joseki not fuseki. I really like that Korean fuseki book and credit it with a large part of my fuseki understanding. I think it would be a good fit for the self-professed gaps in NoSkill's game.
Oh really? I need to look over that book alot more
. I had been reading it for the sanrensei and low chinese stuff, was figuring to get to the mini-chinese, high chinese, kobyashi etc later. Didn't realize it has this in it as well, excellent.-
RobertJasiek
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Re: Most up-to-date joseki dictionary
That book is NOT excellent. Its major weakness: For center influence positions, the move suggestions are suboptimal to weak. For high dans, the books tells almost nothing new. If you are aware of these limitations, the book can be useful - but why not read a book series without these limitations (Rin Kaiho)?
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NoSkill
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Re: Most up-to-date joseki dictionary
RobertJasiek wrote:That book is NOT excellent. Its major weakness: For center influence positions, the move suggestions are suboptimal to weak. For high dans, the books tells almost nothing new. If you are aware of these limitations, the book can be useful - but why not read a book series without these limitations (Rin Kaiho)?
Can you give me a link to rin's book since you keep recommending it
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p2501
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Re: Most up-to-date joseki dictionary
NoSkill wrote:RobertJasiek wrote:That book is NOT excellent. Its major weakness: For center influence positions, the move suggestions are suboptimal to weak. For high dans, the books tells almost nothing new. If you are aware of these limitations, the book can be useful - but why not read a book series without these limitations (Rin Kaiho)?
Can you give me a link to rin's book since you keep recommending it
Its a 4 book fuseki dictionary series, not about josekis I guess:
http://senseis.xmp.net/?DictionaryOfBasicFuseki
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Dokuganryu
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Re: Most up-to-date joseki dictionary
http://senseis.xmp.net/?DictionaryOfBasicFusekiVol1
Here is the link to the first volume, there are 4 in total.
Here is the link to the first volume, there are 4 in total.
Formerly Gorim
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ez4u
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Re: Most up-to-date joseki dictionary
I second the motion on a database. But I have been a GoGoD junkie since 2002 (summer edition IIRC 
). If you don't want to spend the money to buy all the updates, you can buy the current version for the 70,000+ game background and then add new game records from the internet to the database yourself. I find GoGoD much more informative and easy to quickly search than any of the books that I have. There is no commentary so you have to think about what you find there yourself. However, the most obvious thing that you will immediately realize is that there is much more variety and endless experimentation going on than any of the books can possibly describe.
). If you don't want to spend the money to buy all the updates, you can buy the current version for the 70,000+ game background and then add new game records from the internet to the database yourself. I find GoGoD much more informative and easy to quickly search than any of the books that I have. There is no commentary so you have to think about what you find there yourself. However, the most obvious thing that you will immediately realize is that there is much more variety and endless experimentation going on than any of the books can possibly describe.Dave Sigaty
"Short-lived are both the praiser and the praised, and rememberer and the remembered..."
- Marcus Aurelius; Meditations, VIII 21
"Short-lived are both the praiser and the praised, and rememberer and the remembered..."
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RobertJasiek
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Re: Most up-to-date joseki dictionary
You could also get a Taiwanese edition in 2 volumes, if you could find it:)
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RobertJasiek
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Re: Most up-to-date joseki dictionary
ez4u wrote:There is no commentary so you have to think about what you find there yourself. However, the most obvious thing that you will immediately realize is that there is much more variety and endless experimentation going on than any of the books can possibly describe.
Exactly. The strength and weaknesses of databases versus go theory books. Databases let you find everything if only you know what to search - go theory books (should) tell you what to know and search:)
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Uberdude
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Re: Most up-to-date joseki dictionary
RobertJasiek wrote:That book is NOT excellent. Its major weakness: For center influence positions, the move suggestions are suboptimal to weak. For high dans, the books tells almost nothing new. If you are aware of these limitations, the book can be useful - but why not read a book series without these limitations (Rin Kaiho)?
I didn't think it had many centre influence moves, focusing as it does on the first <~50 moves usually around the corners and sides. Do you have some examples of these weak moves? One that springs to mind is the reduction after taking both corners in the san ren sei. Afaik this is a good move. Also what is your basis for saying it has weak moves? I don't know how strong the original author was, but the translator is stronger than you so would have thought not too many howlers would be let through.
I agree it won't help high dans, but for a 1d with 5k level fuseki, I think it's good.
I'm interested that you recommend Rin's book, I've seen that around but not read it; I'll take a look sometime.
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oren
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Re: Most up-to-date joseki dictionary
Rin's book in Japan came out around the same time as Ishida's Joseki. Like Ishida's Joseki book being updated, Rin's was updated in 2008 with Yoda Norimoto as the author. I'm not sure if anyone is translating it to English.