Reacting to unconventional lines of play

[Ortho]

One thing that the early game is really useful imo at move 15 is to see "the central illusion". It looks like B has really made a lot in the centre, but even if you just give it to him, it's 25 points inside and a) W has more than that on just the bottom and b) B's other stones aren't doing anything.

I feel like the one good easy thing to take out of this game (I'm a big advocate of the "learn one thing from each game" school) is the basic corners->sides->centre, and that on move 16 instead of heading for the centre you could just play another move in one of the corners or the sides and you're already building a big points lead. Even if you play the slow-looking move C16 to obliterate the C17 stone, you've scored at least 10 points, which is half of the value of B's centre demonstration and it will still take him as many as 4 moves to seal off that territory.

When you play K6 there you are agreeing to give B the game he wants.

[Phelan]

I love games like this. I try to play unconventional when I can, as I feel it challenges me more in understanding shape and opening theory more than studying set pieces. It's one of the reasons I would love to see Robert Jasiek play a Malkovich, because he also seems to like pretty unconventional moves. I think seeing two high dans going at it, one a conventional player, the other an unconventional one, while explaining their moves, would be amazing.

As for your specific game, I think others have already touched on the essentials: He was more center oriented at first, so you should have focused on corners->centers->side; and that focusing on connection and shape would probably have made it an easier game(note: I only saw the first 50 moves of the game or so, and my strong point is not reading).

As for your question of "Why do people play this way?", I think I've already answered in my opening lines. Let me elaborate: One of the reasons I jumped from chess to go, was that I felt too cramped in opening theory. It seemed to me that if you did not follow one of the conventional opening lines, you were basically one or two steps behind.
I felt that creativity in Go was much more rewarded, and that you could basically never play an identical game amidst 300. Now that I've advanced a bit, I know more about the set opening lines in Go, but still feel they are not as definite as in chess. You can still play around with them a lot.
That's one of the things I love about the game, and that's what gets me to try and play more unconventional lines.

I assume some people might just do it to intimidate/trick opponents, but if if you keep your calm, and play your normal game, it can be a learning experience just the same. So, don't dismiss unconventional players just because. Play them, stay calm, and beat them(and/or learn from them).

[Phelan]

Has anyone else done the same? How did you overcome this kind of mindset? Any higher ranked players have any advice?

I forgot to respond to this part.
For the most part, I never had that problem(although lately I've been playing sanrensei a lot. Probably should switch it up more).
However, the best way to overcome this type of mindset, in my opinion, is to just play out of your comfort zone. Go to senseis and pick one of the unconventional openings like the great wall, or play tengen as first move. If you feel too anxious about doing this in your main account, create a new one to experiment.

If you do try this, try to think more in terms of shape, connections and eyespace, rather than joseki lines. It might also help if you're a good fighter/reader, as unconventional lines usually depend a lot on fights.

[ez4u]

Personally I think that up to move 15 Black expresses a pretty cool idea for White to try to counter. After that Black convincingly demonstrates that he lacks the skill necessary to carry it through consistently. However, the original framework looks pretty neat and I can understand why White felt pressured in this game. Basically I am with snorri and Phelan, take these things as an opportunity, a challenge to think outside of the box. Think about what your opponent seems to want to do and how to counter it. Consider the position neutrally, what are the strengths and weaknesses of the stones and how can you shape your play based on it? Games like this should be a pleasure - at least you don't have to worry about forgetting the things you studied since none of them covered anything like this!

[Uberdude]

Think about what your opponent seems to want to do and how to counter it.

Sometimes that is not necessary. If he wants to make less territory than you then let him have his way

[SmoothOper]

It appears to me to be a variation on the live in the middle invade every corner strategy and or diagonal great wall as well as a bit of the bean scattering strategy.

I myself play a somewhat unconventional fuseki, however I find that I also fall into traps of unconventional play when I encounter them, I think I am used to playing against conventional fuseki.

The real mistake, is to not react to the unconventional plays. IE tenuki and continue to play the opening that you are familiar with, since the conventional plays will probably be sub optimal to the unconventional opening that is tuned against it. I find most of the unconventional openings are designed to give some advantage over conventional openings and aren't necessarily all that great in general.

[peppernut]

Uberdude's response is spot on I think, but I want to add something to it concerning thinking strategically.

Because it's important to play with a plan, it's important to try to understand the meaning of your opponent's moves. When they seem like garbage moves, one way to try to understand them is to try to disprove the notion that they are garbage. Figure out a way in which they might be good and useful moves.

In this game, I look at the position up to and I can see just one potential use for his stones floating in the center. That is, establish influence in the center with floating stones and take the 3-3 points of the corners. In the sansan invasion josekis, this might reduce the influence of the wall that you'd get.

Yes, this is a one-dimensional plan you're giving him, but it doesn't matter if you're complete in your assessment of his unconventional strategy. You're just using it as a starting point for your own planning. Then, as Uberdude says play solid shapes.

[snorri]

Edit: In hindsight, it seems apparent he only wanted to make square patterns. Looking through his game history I think he was a troll. So maybe there was no strategical purpose.

I was going to say the same thing, only without looking at the opponent's other games. Once you see a move like , you know immediately that was planned from the beginning. There are various box formations. If you take double wing and then add a stone in the remaining corner of the square, you get one. So in a sense, allowing a big square box is tenuking from a position that is already a double wing. Maybe his strategy is to learn whether such a shape is as effective in the middle of the board is it would be near the sides and corners. It is not an idea to be dismissed out of hand, just because we've moved past the Shin Fuseki period. On the other hand, he seems to be combining with a greedy approach. He can't get everything, so you have to decide what you want.

[Magicwand]

Hope my advice help..

how do i play him? before that something i have noticed from the game.
1) he is much stronger player than you are. which means he will beat you even if he plays conventionally.
2) although you played three corners..black's influencal moyo looks bigger than your points.

now.. when he plays inthe middle..you play same.
when he takes points..you do same.
as long as you maintain the balanace...you are ok.
i am not saying that my way is correct but i would never play three corner if my opponent plays such moves.

[Annihilist]

Think about what your opponent seems to want to do and how to counter it.

Sometimes that is not necessary. If he wants to make less territory than you then let him have his way

Ah, now I see what you were getting at. Thank you