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Offline Phelan
 Post subject: Re: #189 - dumbrope vs. Phelan
Post #21 Posted: Fri Dec 07, 2012 2:53 pm 
Gosei
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Click Here To Show Diagram Code
[go]$$Bcm11 Prisoners: none
$$ ---------------------------------------
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . . O . . . . . . X . . O . . O . . |
$$ | . . . , . . . . . , . . . . . X 1 . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . . , . . . . . , . . . . . X . . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . O . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . . , . . . . . , . . . . . X . . . |
$$ | . . . O . . . . . X . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ ---------------------------------------[/go]

Like I said, the good answers to my move is to invade the corner or to approach from the other side. He chose the invasion.
This is how I see the sequence:
Click Here To Show Diagram Code
[go]$$Bcm11 Next moves
$$ ---------------------------------------
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . . O . . . . . . X . . O . 2 O . . |
$$ | . . . , . . . . . , . . . 4 3 X 1 . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . 6 5 . . . . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . 7 . . . . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . . , . . . . . , . . . . . X . . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . O . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . . , . . . . . , . . . . . X . . . |
$$ | . . . O . . . . . X . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ ---------------------------------------[/go]

Something similar to this. I'll try not to put L17 in too much danger, while making influence towards the right side.

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Offline Phelan
 Post subject: Re: #189 - dumbrope vs. Phelan
Post #22 Posted: Fri Dec 07, 2012 2:57 pm 
Gosei
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I'm very VERY curious about what people have been saying in the hidden comments. :sad: Can't wait for the end of the game to read them. Hope I've at least been doing a good job with my comments.

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Offline Boidhre
 Post subject: Re: #189 - dumbrope vs. Phelan
Post #23 Posted: Fri Dec 07, 2012 3:58 pm 
Oza

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@Phelan

Your comments are interesting, keep it up!

This post by Boidhre was liked by: Phelan
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Offline EdLee
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Post #24 Posted: Fri Dec 07, 2012 4:44 pm 
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For beginners. There's no good way for B to bridge the gap between :bc: and :b3: --
so blocking at :b1: was not a good choice for B (another way to look at it is B should have thought about this problem
before his 2-space pincer :bc:):
Click Here To Show Diagram Code
[go]$$B
$$----------------------
$$ . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ . . . 4 . . . . . . |
$$ . B . . O . 2 O . . |
$$ , . . . . 3 X 1 . . |
$$ . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ . . . . . . . . . . |[/go]
Phelan wrote:
This is how I see the sequence:
Click Here To Show Diagram Code
[go]$$Bm11
$$----------------------
$$ . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ . X . . O a 2 O . . |
$$ , . . . 4 3 X 1 . . |
$$ . . . 6 5 . . . . . |
$$ . . . . 7 . . . . . |
$$ . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ . . . . . . . . . . |[/go]
The above variation is not good for W because B has a push-and-cut starting at (a).
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Offline EdLee
 Post subject:
Post #25 Posted: Fri Dec 07, 2012 4:45 pm 
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Phelan,
Phelan wrote:
I'm very VERY curious about what people have been saying in the hidden comments.
Happy holidays. :)

This post by EdLee was liked by: Phelan
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Offline Phelan
 Post subject: Re:
Post #26 Posted: Fri Dec 07, 2012 5:46 pm 
Gosei
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EdLee wrote:
Phelan,
Phelan wrote:
I'm very VERY curious about what people have been saying in the hidden comments.
Happy holidays. :)

Heh, thanks! To you too! :)

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a1h1 [1d]: You just need to curse the gods and defend.
Good Go = Shape.
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Offline dumbrope
 Post subject: Re: #189 - dumbrope vs. Phelan
Post #27 Posted: Fri Dec 07, 2012 6:55 pm 
Dies with sente

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Click Here To Show Diagram Code
[go]$$Bcm11 Prisoners: none
$$ ---------------------------------------
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . . O . . . . . . X . . O . 2 O . . |
$$ | . . . , . . . . . , . . . . . X X . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . . , . . . . . , . . . . . X . . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . O . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . . , . . . . . , . . . . . X . . . |
$$ | . . . O . . . . . X . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ ---------------------------------------[/go]


Finally, a move I don't have to think about.
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Offline Phelan
 Post subject: Re: #189 - dumbrope vs. Phelan
Post #28 Posted: Sat Dec 08, 2012 9:44 am 
Gosei
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Click Here To Show Diagram Code
[go]$$Bcm11 Prisoners: none
$$ ---------------------------------------
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . . O . . . . . . X . . O . O O . . |
$$ | . . . , . . . . . , . . . . 3 X X . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . . , . . . . . , . . . . . X . . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . O . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . . , . . . . . , . . . . . X . . . |
$$ | . . . O . . . . . X . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ ---------------------------------------[/go]

I've covered this in my previous post. I didn't see him deviating from that in this move. His next move might, though. There are lots of variations here, I think.
Possible moves I can see, in random order:
Click Here To Show Diagram Code
[go]$$Bcm11 Possibilities
$$ ---------------------------------------
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . a . . . . . . |
$$ | . . . O . . . . . . X . e O d O O . . |
$$ | . . . , . . . . . , . . . b 3 X X c . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . . , . . . . . , . . . . . X . . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . O . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . . , . . . . . , . . . . . X . . . |
$$ | . . . O . . . . . X . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ ---------------------------------------[/go]

There might still be more I'm missing. I'll react to his next play.

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Good Go = Shape.
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Offline dumbrope
 Post subject: Re: #189 - dumbrope vs. Phelan
Post #29 Posted: Sat Dec 08, 2012 10:38 am 
Dies with sente

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Click Here To Show Diagram Code
[go]$$Bcm11 Prisoners: none
$$ ---------------------------------------
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . 4 . . . . . . |
$$ | . . . O . . . . . . X . . O . O O . . |
$$ | . . . , . . . . . , . . . . X X X . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . . , . . . . . , . . . . . X . . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . O . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . . , . . . . . , . . . . . X . . . |
$$ | . . . O . . . . . X . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ ---------------------------------------[/go]


I don't play sanrensei much, but when I do, I prefer the tighter pincer. With this one it is a little harder for black to seal white in, I think. Maybe black has a special plan here, but I don't see it.
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Offline Phelan
 Post subject: Re: #189 - dumbrope vs. Phelan
Post #30 Posted: Sat Dec 08, 2012 5:38 pm 
Gosei
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Click Here To Show Diagram Code
[go]$$Bcm11 Prisoners: none
$$ ---------------------------------------
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . O . . . . . . |
$$ | . . . O . . . . . . X . . O . O O . . |
$$ | . . . , . . . . . , . . . . X X X . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . 5 . . . . . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . . , . . . . . , . . . . . X . . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . O . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . . , . . . . . , . . . . . X . . . |
$$ | . . . O . . . . . X . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ ---------------------------------------[/go]

So far, nothing out of the ordinary. His :w14: protects against my cut at P17, and helps with the corner group's eyespace. It also undermines eyespace of a possible group at L17.

I could just push, and get a good result for the right side, but that would leave L7 in a bind:
Click Here To Show Diagram Code
[go]$$Bcm11 Single minded, focusing onthe right side
$$ ---------------------------------------
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . O . . . . . . |
$$ | . . . O . . . . . . X . . O . O O . . |
$$ | . . . , . . . . . , 0 8 6 5 X X X . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . 9 7 . . . . . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . . , . . . . . , . . . . . X . . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . O . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . . , . . . . . , . . . . . X . . . |
$$ | . . . O . . . . . X . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ ---------------------------------------[/go]


This is what I have in mind. His shape doesnt get as strong, and I can still do things on the top.
Click Here To Show Diagram Code
[go]$$Bcm11 Possible sequence
$$ ---------------------------------------
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . O . . . . . . |
$$ | . . . O . . . . 9 . X . . O . O O . . |
$$ | . . . , . . . . . , 8 6 . . X X X . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . 7 5 . . . . . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . . , . . . . . , . . . . . X . . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . O . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . . , . . . . . , . . . . . X . . . |
$$ | . . . O . . . . . X . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ ---------------------------------------[/go]

Another possible resistance:
Click Here To Show Diagram Code
[go]$$Bcm11 another possibility
$$ ---------------------------------------
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . O . . . . . . |
$$ | . . . O . . . . . . X . . O . O O . . |
$$ | . . . , . . . . . , 0 8 . 6 X X X . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . 9 5 7 a . . . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . . , . . . . . , . . . . . X . . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . O . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . . , . . . . . , . . . . . X . . . |
$$ | . . . O . . . . . X . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ ---------------------------------------[/go]

There's a cut at 'a' here, but Q10 keeps me from worrying.

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Good Go = Shape.
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Offline EdLee
 Post subject:
Post #31 Posted: Sat Dec 08, 2012 6:22 pm 
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For beginners.
Phelan wrote:
I'll try not to put :bt: in too much danger...
In Phelan's variations, notice all the Broken Shapes for Black ( :bt: was damaged in all 3 cases ):
Phelan wrote:
Click Here To Show Diagram Code
[go]$$Bm11
$$-------------------------------
$$. . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$. . . . . . . . O . . . . . . |
$$. . . . . . Y . . O . O O . . |
$$. . . . . , @ @ @ X X X X . . |
$$. . . . . . . B B . . . . . . |
$$. . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |[/go]
Click Here To Show Diagram Code
[go]$$m11
$$--------------------------------
$$ . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ . . . . . . . . O . . . . . . |
$$ . . . . X . Y . . O . O O . . |
$$ . . . . . , @ @ . . X X X . . |
$$ . . . . . . . B B . . . . . . |
$$ . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |[/go]
Click Here To Show Diagram Code
[go]$$Bm11
$$--------------------------------
$$ . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ . . . . . . . . O . . . . . . |
$$ . . . . . . Y . . O . O O . . |
$$ . . . . . , @ @ . O X X X . . |
$$ . . . . . . . B B X . . . . . |
$$ . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |[/go]
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Offline EdLee
 Post subject:
Post #32 Posted: Sat Dec 08, 2012 6:30 pm 
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For beginners.
Phelan wrote:
There's a cut at 'a' here, but :bs: keeps me from worrying.
Click Here To Show Diagram Code
[go]$$Bm11
$$ -----------------------------------------
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . O . . . . . . |
$$ | . . . O . . . . . . X . . O . O O . . |
$$ | . . . , . . . . . , 0 8 . 6 X X X . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . 9 5 7 a . . . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . . , . . . . . , . . . . . # . . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . O . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . . , . . . . . , . . . . . X . . . |
$$ | . . . O . . . . . X . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ -----------------------------------------[/go]
There is no cut at (a) -- can you see why? -- and :bs: has nothing to do with it.
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Offline dumbrope
 Post subject: Re: #189 - dumbrope vs. Phelan
Post #33 Posted: Sat Dec 08, 2012 11:57 pm 
Dies with sente

Posts: 89
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Was liked: 14
Rank: AGA 5k
Click Here To Show Diagram Code
[go]$$Bcm11 Prisoners: none
$$ ---------------------------------------
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . O . . . . . . |
$$ | . . . O . . . . . . X . . O . O O . . |
$$ | . . . , . . . . . , . 6 . . X X X . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . X . . . . . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . . , . . . . . , . . . . . X . . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . O . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . . , . . . . . , . . . . . X . . . |
$$ | . . . O . . . . . X . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ ---------------------------------------[/go]


I could wait and take sente somewhere else before exploiting this weakness, but a trend in my games is that whenever I do that some stronger player comes along and says, no, you have to punish right away, otherwise your opponent's bad move becomes a good one. Anyway, avoiding getting surrounded is a basic principle, so I don't think it can be too bad to do it now. So I did have some sophisticated plan to do other things and then play here, but maybe that's just overthinking.
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Offline Phelan
 Post subject: Re: #189 - dumbrope vs. Phelan
Post #34 Posted: Sun Dec 09, 2012 12:22 pm 
Gosei
User avatar

Posts: 1449
Liked others: 1562
Was liked: 140
Rank: KGS 6k
GD Posts: 892
Click Here To Show Diagram Code
[go]$$Bcm11 Prisoners: none
$$ ---------------------------------------
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . O . . . . . . |
$$ | . . . O . . . . . . X . . O . O O . . |
$$ | . . . , . . . . . , . O . . X X X . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . 7 X . . . . . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . . , . . . . . , . . . . . X . . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . O . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . . , . . . . . , . . . . . X . . . |
$$ | . . . O . . . . . X . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ ---------------------------------------[/go]

As explained in my previous post, I'm trying to make some influence towards the right, without damaging L17 too much. For the sequence I expect, see the previous post.

_________________
a1h1 [1d]: You just need to curse the gods and defend.
Good Go = Shape.
Associação Portuguesa de Go
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Offline dumbrope
 Post subject: Re: #189 - dumbrope vs. Phelan
Post #35 Posted: Sun Dec 09, 2012 6:07 pm 
Dies with sente

Posts: 89
Liked others: 16
Was liked: 14
Rank: AGA 5k
Click Here To Show Diagram Code
[go]$$Bcm11 Prisoners: none
$$ ---------------------------------------
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . O . . . . . . |
$$ | . . . O . . . . . . X . . O . O O . . |
$$ | . . . , . . . . . , 8 O . . X X X . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . X X . . . . . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . . , . . . . . , . . . . . X . . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . O . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . . , . . . . . , . . . . . X . . . |
$$ | . . . O . . . . . X . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ ---------------------------------------[/go]


Broken shape.

Click Here To Show Diagram Code
[go]$$Bcm11 Prisoners: none
$$ ---------------------------------------
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . O . . . . . . |
$$ | . . . O . . . . . . B . . O . O O . . |
$$ | . . . , . . . . . , O O . . X X X . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . B X . . . . . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . . , . . . . . , . . . . . X . . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . O . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . . , . . . . . , . . . . . X . . . |
$$ | . . . O . . . . . X . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ ---------------------------------------[/go]
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Offline Phelan
 Post subject: Re: #189 - dumbrope vs. Phelan
Post #36 Posted: Mon Dec 10, 2012 4:55 am 
Gosei
User avatar

Posts: 1449
Liked others: 1562
Was liked: 140
Rank: KGS 6k
GD Posts: 892
Click Here To Show Diagram Code
[go]$$Bcm11 Prisoners: none
$$ ---------------------------------------
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . O . . . . . . |
$$ | . . . O . . . . 9 . X . . O . O O . . |
$$ | . . . , . . . . . , O O . . X X X . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . X X . . . . . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . . , . . . . . , . . . . . X . . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . O . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . . , . . . . . , . . . . . X . . . |
$$ | . . . O . . . . . X . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ ---------------------------------------[/go]

Still as per the sequence I talked about previously.
Now he has choice of arena, though. Lots of things are possible. Two things I can see below:
Click Here To Show Diagram Code
[go]$$Bcm11 Two possibilities
$$ ---------------------------------------
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . O . . . . . . |
$$ | . . . O . . . . 9 . X . . O . O O . . |
$$ | . . . , . . . . . , O O . . X X X . . |
$$ | . . a . . . . . . . . X X . . . . . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . . , . . . . . , . . . . . X . . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . O . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . . , . . . . . , . . . . . X . . . |
$$ | . . . O . . . . . X . . . . . . b . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ ---------------------------------------[/go]

_________________
a1h1 [1d]: You just need to curse the gods and defend.
Good Go = Shape.
Associação Portuguesa de Go
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Offline skydyr
 Post subject: Re: #189 - dumbrope vs. Phelan
Post #37 Posted: Mon Dec 10, 2012 8:49 am 
Oza

Posts: 2495
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Online playing schedule: When my wife is out.
Phelan wrote:
Still as per the sequence I talked about previously.
Now he has choice of arena, though. Lots of things are possible. Two things I can see below:
Click Here To Show Diagram Code
[go]$$Bcm11 Two possibilities
$$ ---------------------------------------
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . O . . . . . . |
$$ | . . . O . . . . 9 . X . . O . O O . . |
$$ | . . . , . . . . . , O O . . X X X . . |
$$ | . . a . . . . . . . . X X . . . . . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . . , . . . . . , . . . . . X . . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . O . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . . , . . . . . , . . . . . X . . . |
$$ | . . . O . . . . . X . . . . . . b . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ ---------------------------------------[/go]


This is a case of urgent points before big points.

The turn at L15 looks gigantic. It limits black's expansion, threatens to break in and render black's wall useless, and indirectly attacks black's top-side group. The other urgent point seems to be G17, which may induce white L15 anyways. If white can get black's group running, he can use the attack as an opportunity to build a wall facing directly into black's moyo and limiting it severely.
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Offline dumbrope
 Post subject: Re: #189 - dumbrope vs. Phelan
Post #38 Posted: Mon Dec 10, 2012 10:38 am 
Dies with sente

Posts: 89
Liked others: 16
Was liked: 14
Rank: AGA 5k
Click Here To Show Diagram Code
[go]$$Bcm11 Prisoners: none
$$ ---------------------------------------
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . O . . . . . . |
$$ | . . . O . . 0 . X . X . . O . O O . . |
$$ | . . . , . . . . . , O O . . X X X . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . X X . . . . . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . . , . . . . . , . . . . . X . . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . O . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . . , . . . . . , . . . . . X . . . |
$$ | . . . O . . . . . X . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ ---------------------------------------[/go]


It's tempting to play :w1: as it's the shape move, but I think black might treat the marked stone lightly and skip out. So if I'm going attack I might as well go after the whole group.

Click Here To Show Diagram Code
[go]$$Wcm1 Prisoners: none
$$ ---------------------------------------
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . O . . . . . . |
$$ | . . . O . 2 . . X . B . . O . O O . . |
$$ | . . . , . . . . . 1 O O . . X X X . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . X X . . . . . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . . , . . . . . , . . . . . X . . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . O . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . . , . . . . . , . . . . . X . . . |
$$ | . . . O . . . . . X . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ ---------------------------------------[/go]
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Offline Phelan
 Post subject: Re: #189 - dumbrope vs. Phelan
Post #39 Posted: Fri Dec 14, 2012 8:30 am 
Gosei
User avatar

Posts: 1449
Liked others: 1562
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GD Posts: 892
Sorry for the delay. Got kind of caught up on other endeavors.

Click Here To Show Diagram Code
[go]$$Bcm21 Prisoners: none
$$ ---------------------------------------
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . O . . . . . . |
$$ | . . . O . . O . X . X . . O . O O . . |
$$ | . . . , . . . 1 . , O O . . X X X . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . X X . . . . . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . . , . . . . . , . . . . . X . . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . O . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . . , . . . . . , . . . . . X . . . |
$$ | . . . O . . . . . X . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ ---------------------------------------[/go]

No sequences here, just my intentions: I'm more interested in keeping a possible foil to his possible moyo on the left than in settling my group locally. I don't mind losing some of the J17-L17 stones in the process.

_________________
a1h1 [1d]: You just need to curse the gods and defend.
Good Go = Shape.
Associação Portuguesa de Go
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Offline skydyr
 Post subject: Re: #189 - dumbrope vs. Phelan
Post #40 Posted: Fri Dec 14, 2012 9:26 am 
Oza

Posts: 2495
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Universal go server handle: skydyr
Online playing schedule: When my wife is out.
Phelan wrote:
No sequences here, just my intentions: I'm more interested in keeping a possible foil to his possible moyo on the left than in settling my group locally. I don't mind losing some of the J17-L17 stones in the process.


Um... there is no moyo on the left, but running with those stones may allow white to create one.
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Board index » L19²GO (Malkovich) » 1-on-1 Malkovich games

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