It is currently Sun May 04, 2025 2:01 pm

All times are UTC - 8 hours [ DST ]




Post new topic Reply to topic  [ 5 posts ] 
Author Message
Offline
 Post subject: Patting the raccoon's belly
Post #1 Posted: Thu Dec 27, 2012 12:15 am 
Lives in gote
User avatar

Posts: 614
Liked others: 28
Was liked: 65
Rank: 1 Kyu KGS
KGS: Numsgil
I was playing a handicap game against black and this situation arose that looked quite like the archetype for the "patting the raccoon's belly" problem:

Click Here To Show Diagram Code
[go]$$W White to play
$$ . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ . . . . . X . X . . |
$$ . . . X . . . . . . |
$$ . . . . O O O . . . |
$$ , . X X O X O . . . |
$$ . . O O X X O . . . |
$$ . . O X . . X . . . |
$$ . . . . . . . . . . |
$$---------------------[/go]


I tried something like this, but I had to let part of the group get away.

Click Here To Show Diagram Code
[go]$$W White to play
$$ . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ . . . . . X . X . . |
$$ . . . X . . . . . . |
$$ . . . . O O O . . . |
$$ , . X X O X O . . . |
$$ . . O O X X O 4 . . |
$$ . . O X . 2 X . . . |
$$ . . . 3 . 1 . . . . |
$$---------------------[/go]


Something like this is more aggressive, but I don't see a way to prevent ko, and even without the ko it's far from a clean capture.

Click Here To Show Diagram Code
[go]$$W White to play
$$ . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ . . . . . X . X . . |
$$ . . . X . . . . . . |
$$ . . . . O O O . . . |
$$ , . X X O X O . . . |
$$ . . O O X X O . . . |
$$ . . O X . 2 X 3 . . |
$$ . . 5 7 4 1 6 . . . |
$$---------------------[/go]


What's the cleanest way to capture the black stones? If it's different than the "patting the raccoon's belly" trick, why?

_________________
1k KGS

Top
 Profile  
 
Offline
 Post subject: Re: Patting the raccoon's belly
Post #2 Posted: Thu Dec 27, 2012 12:20 am 
Honinbo

Posts: 9552
Liked others: 1602
Was liked: 1712
KGS: Kirby
Tygem: 커비라고해
Why not just this?

Click Here To Show Diagram Code
[go]$$W White to play
$$ . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ . . . . . X . X . . |
$$ . . . X . . . . . . |
$$ . . . . O O O . . . |
$$ , . X X O X O . . . |
$$ . . O O X X O . . . |
$$ . . O X . . X 1 . . |
$$ . . . . . . . . . . |
$$---------------------[/go]

_________________
be immersed


This post by Kirby was liked by: Phelan
Top
 Profile  
 
Offline
 Post subject: Re: Patting the raccoon's belly
Post #3 Posted: Thu Dec 27, 2012 12:23 am 
Honinbo

Posts: 9552
Liked others: 1602
Was liked: 1712
KGS: Kirby
Tygem: 커비라고해
Also, if you compare this to the racoon-thing that you linked, if you look at the second diagram:

Click Here To Show Diagram Code
[go]$$B <raccoon text>
$$ ----------------------
$$ | . . . . . 5 7 . . . .
$$ | . . . b 4 a c 6 d . .
$$ | . . X . X O O X . . .
$$ | . . . , X 1 2 3 X , .
$$ | . . . . X O O O X . .
$$ | . . . . O B B B O . .
$$ | . . . . O . . . O . .
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . .
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . .[/go]


White plays :w6: AFTER :b5:. In your case, there are two hanes before you play on the first line.

Either way, probably just good to read in these cases.

_________________
be immersed


This post by Kirby was liked by: topazg
Top
 Profile  
 
Offline
 Post subject: Re: Patting the raccoon's belly
Post #4 Posted: Thu Dec 27, 2012 10:37 am 
Lives with ko

Posts: 276
Liked others: 301
Was liked: 127
You forgot the essence of 'patting the raccoon's belly'.

Click Here To Show Diagram Code
[go]$$W White to play
$$ . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ . . . . . X . X . . |
$$ . . . X . . . . . . |
$$ . . . . O O O . . . |
$$ , . X X O X O . . . |
$$ . . O O X X O . . . |
$$ . . W X . a X b . . |
$$ . . . . c 1 . . . . |
$$---------------------[/go]


The idea behind :b1: here is to make a and b miai. When your opponent played a, you just went on with thoughtlessly with the memorized pattern and played c.

Not only that, but even if your opponent had played b himself, cutting directly at a is still the correct move. Because of the marked stone, Black can't hope to escape anyway.

Don't just play memorized patterns without understanding their essence. ;-)


Edit: There's no problem with playing directly at b here and, if I'm reading this right, it's actually less messy than :w1: in this particular situation, because of a lack of liberties from the marked stone's group. I did just wake up, but I think this assumption is correct... :scratch:


Last edited by Phoenix on Fri Dec 28, 2012 10:32 am, edited 1 time in total.
Top
 Profile  
 
Offline
 Post subject: Re: Patting the raccoon's belly
Post #5 Posted: Fri Dec 28, 2012 8:59 am 
Lives in gote
User avatar

Posts: 329
Location: Denmark
Liked others: 4
Was liked: 65
Rank: 6D Tygem
Universal go server handle: pluspy
To hane is the most clean way. The other tesuji in this kind of shape is to attach underneath to the right of your original move. It is to make ko when the racoon belly doesn't work. But in this case, the simple block works because whites stones to the left can just escape and whites corner has enough liberties to capture black.

Top
 Profile  
 
Display posts from previous:  Sort by  
Post new topic Reply to topic  [ 5 posts ] 

All times are UTC - 8 hours [ DST ]


Who is online

Users browsing this forum: No registered users and 1 guest


You cannot post new topics in this forum
You cannot reply to topics in this forum
You cannot edit your posts in this forum
You cannot delete your posts in this forum
You cannot post attachments in this forum

Search for:
Jump to:  
Powered by phpBB © 2000, 2002, 2005, 2007 phpBB Group