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Offline tchan001
 Post subject: Interesting high dan tsumego
Post #1 Posted: Sun Jan 13, 2013 9:15 pm 
Gosei
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Here's an interesting tsumego which has recently stumped a good friend on KGS recently. From a somewhat recent Japanese problem book for dans. Enjoy
Black to move

Click Here To Show Diagram Code
[go]$$Bc
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . .
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . .
$$ | . X X X X X X X . . .
$$ | . X O O . O O X . , .
$$ | . X O . O . O X . . .
$$ | . X O . . . O X X . .
$$ | . X . . O . X . . . .
$$ +-----------------------[/go]

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Go is such a beautiful game.
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Offline lovelove
 Post subject: Re: Interesting high dan tsumego
Post #2 Posted: Sun Jan 13, 2013 10:58 pm 
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:mrgreen:
Click Here To Show Diagram Code
[go]$$Bc
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . .
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . .
$$ | . X X X X X X X . . .
$$ | . X O O 7 O O X . , .
$$ | . X O . O . O X . . .
$$ | . X O 5 4 1 O X X . .
$$ | . X 6 3 O 2 X . . . .
$$ +-----------------------[/go]

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Offline logan
 Post subject: Re: Interesting high dan tsumego
Post #3 Posted: Sun Jan 13, 2013 11:09 pm 
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lovelove wrote:
:mrgreen:
Click Here To Show Diagram Code
[go]$$Bc
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . .
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . .
$$ | . X X X X X X X . . .
$$ | . X O O 7 O O X . , .
$$ | . X O . O . O X . . .
$$ | . X O 5 4 1 O X X . .
$$ | . X 6 3 O 2 X . . . .
$$ +-----------------------[/go]

What did you receive in this variation?
Click Here To Show Diagram Code
[go]$$Bc
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . .
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . .
$$ | . X X X X X X X . . .
$$ | . X O O . O O X . , .
$$ | . X O . O . O X . . .
$$ | . X O . . 1 O X X . .
$$ | . X . 3 O 2 X 4 . . .
$$ +-----------------------[/go]
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Offline ez4u
 Post subject: Re: Interesting high dan tsumego
Post #4 Posted: Sun Jan 13, 2013 11:59 pm 
Oza
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Posts: 2414
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logan wrote:
lovelove wrote:
:mrgreen:
Click Here To Show Diagram Code
[go]$$Bc
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . .
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . .
$$ | . X X X X X X X . . .
$$ | . X O O 7 O O X . , .
$$ | . X O . O . O X . . .
$$ | . X O 5 4 1 O X X . .
$$ | . X 6 3 O 2 X . . . .
$$ +-----------------------[/go]

What did you receive in this variation?
Click Here To Show Diagram Code
[go]$$Bc
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . .
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . .
$$ | . X X X X X X X . . .
$$ | . X O O . O O X . , .
$$ | . X O . O . O X . . .
$$ | . X O . . 1 O X X . .
$$ | . X . 3 O 2 X 4 . . .
$$ +-----------------------[/go]


Click Here To Show Diagram Code
[go]$$Bc
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . .
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . .
$$ | . X X X X X X X . . .
$$ | . X O O 5 O O X . , .
$$ | . X O . O . O X . . .
$$ | . X O 3 1 X O X X . .
$$ | . X 4 X O O 2 O . . .
$$ +-----------------------[/go]


Click Here To Show Diagram Code
[go]$$Bc
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . .
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . .
$$ | . X X X X X X X . . .
$$ | . X O O 5 O O X . , .
$$ | . X O 6 O . O X . . .
$$ | . X O 7 1 X O X X . .
$$ | . X 2 X O W 3 O . . .
$$ +-----------------------[/go]

:w4: at the marked stone

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"Short-lived are both the praiser and the praised, and rememberer and the remembered..."
- Marcus Aurelius; Meditations, VIII 21
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Offline logan
 Post subject: Re: Interesting high dan tsumego
Post #5 Posted: Mon Jan 14, 2013 12:03 am 
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Yep, good job : )
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Offline Dusk Eagle
 Post subject: Re: Interesting high dan tsumego
Post #6 Posted: Mon Jan 14, 2013 12:50 am 
Gosei
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I think this alternate move for :b3: also works.
Click Here To Show Diagram Code
[go]$$Bc
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . .
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . .
$$ | . X X X X X X X . . .
$$ | . X O O . O O X . , .
$$ | . X O . O . O X . . .
$$ | . X O 3 . 1 O X X . .
$$ | . X . . O 2 X . . . .
$$ +-----------------------[/go]

_________________
We don't know who we are; we don't know where we are.
Each of us woke up one moment and here we were in the darkness.
We're nameless things with no memory; no knowledge of what went before,
No understanding of what is now, no knowledge of what will be.
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Offline tchan001
 Post subject: Re: Interesting high dan tsumego
Post #7 Posted: Mon Jan 14, 2013 1:02 am 
Gosei
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ez4u wrote:

Click Here To Show Diagram Code
[go]$$Bc
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . .
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . .
$$ | . X X X X X X X . . .
$$ | . X O O 5 O O X . , .
$$ | . X O . O . O X . . .
$$ | . X O 3 1 X O X X . .
$$ | . X 4 X O O 2 O . . .
$$ +-----------------------[/go]


Click Here To Show Diagram Code
[go]$$Bc
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . .
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . .
$$ | . X X X X X X X . . .
$$ | . X O O 5 O O X . , .
$$ | . X O 6 O . O X . . .
$$ | . X O 7 1 X O X X . .
$$ | . X 2 X O W 3 O . . .
$$ +-----------------------[/go]

:w4: at the marked stone

Not quite ez4u
Click Here To Show Diagram Code
[go]$$Bc
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . .
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . .
$$ | . X X X X X X X . . .
$$ | . X O O . O O X . , .
$$ | . X O . O . O X . . .
$$ | . X O 2 1 X O X X . .
$$ | . X . X O O . O . . .
$$ +-----------------------[/go]


Dusk Eagle wrote:
I think this alternate move for :b3: also works.
Click Here To Show Diagram Code
[go]$$Bc
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . .
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . .
$$ | . X X X X X X X . . .
$$ | . X O O . O O X . , .
$$ | . X O . O . O X . . .
$$ | . X O 3 . 1 O X X . .
$$ | . X . . O 2 X . . . .
$$ +-----------------------[/go]

Not quite Dusk Eagle
Click Here To Show Diagram Code
[go]$$Bc
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . .
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . .
$$ | . X X X X X X X . . .
$$ | . X O O . O O X . , .
$$ | . X O . O . O X . . .
$$ | . X O 3 . 1 O X X . .
$$ | . X 4 . O 2 X . . . .
$$ +-----------------------[/go]

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A blog on Asian go books, go sightings, and interesting tidbits
Go is such a beautiful game.
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Offline lovelove
 Post subject: Re: Interesting high dan tsumego
Post #8 Posted: Mon Jan 14, 2013 1:14 am 
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ez4u's reading is right.
Click Here To Show Diagram Code
[go]$$Bc
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . .
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . .
$$ | . X X X X X X X . . .
$$ | . X O O . O O X . , .
$$ | . X O . O . O X . . .
$$ | . X O 2 1 X O X X . .
$$ | . X 5 X . 4 3 O . . .
$$ +-----------------------[/go]

Click Here To Show Diagram Code
[go]$$Bc 8 at 6, 9 at 7
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . .
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . .
$$ | . X X X X X X X . . .
$$ | . X O O . O O X . , .
$$ | . X O . O 4 O X . . .
$$ | . X O 2 1 X O X X . .
$$ | . X 5 X 6 7 3 O . . .
$$ +-----------------------[/go]

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Offline ez4u
 Post subject: Re: Interesting high dan tsumego
Post #9 Posted: Mon Jan 14, 2013 1:24 am 
Oza
User avatar

Posts: 2414
Location: Tokyo, Japan
Liked others: 2351
Was liked: 1332
Rank: Jp 6 dan
KGS: ez4u
tchan001 wrote:
ez4u wrote:

Click Here To Show Diagram Code
[go]$$Bc
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . .
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . .
$$ | . X X X X X X X . . .
$$ | . X O O 5 O O X . , .
$$ | . X O . O . O X . . .
$$ | . X O 3 1 X O X X . .
$$ | . X 4 X O O 2 O . . .
$$ +-----------------------[/go]


Click Here To Show Diagram Code
[go]$$Bc
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . .
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . .
$$ | . X X X X X X X . . .
$$ | . X O O 5 O O X . , .
$$ | . X O 6 O . O X . . .
$$ | . X O 7 1 X O X X . .
$$ | . X 2 X O W 3 O . . .
$$ +-----------------------[/go]

:w4: at the marked stone

Not quite ez4u
Click Here To Show Diagram Code
[go]$$Bc
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . .
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . .
$$ | . X X X X X X X . . .
$$ | . X O O . O O X . , .
$$ | . X O . O . O X . . .
$$ | . X O 2 1 X O X X . .
$$ | . X . X O O . O . . .
$$ +-----------------------[/go]


Yep, careless...
Click Here To Show Diagram Code
[go]$$Bc
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . .
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . .
$$ | . X X X X X X X . . .
$$ | . X O O a O O X . , .
$$ | . X O 4 O . O X . . .
$$ | . X O 1 3 X O X X . .
$$ | . X 2 X O O 5 O . . .
$$ +-----------------------[/go]

If 4 at 5, "a" reverts to earlier diagram

Click Here To Show Diagram Code
[go]$$Wc
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . .
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . .
$$ | . X X X X X X X . . .
$$ | . X O O . O O X . , .
$$ | . X O O O a O X . . .
$$ | . X O X X X O X X . .
$$ | . X O X 2 1 X O . . .
$$ +-----------------------[/go]

White cannot fill at "a" instead of recapturing due to shortage of liberties.

_________________
Dave Sigaty
"Short-lived are both the praiser and the praised, and rememberer and the remembered..."
- Marcus Aurelius; Meditations, VIII 21
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Offline lovelove
 Post subject: Re: Interesting high dan tsumego
Post #10 Posted: Mon Jan 14, 2013 1:26 am 
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ez4u wrote:
Yep, careless...

Any problems with my solution, or just an alternative?

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Offline tchan001
 Post subject: Re: Interesting high dan tsumego
Post #11 Posted: Mon Jan 14, 2013 1:28 am 
Gosei
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lovelove wrote:
ez4u's reading is right.
Click Here To Show Diagram Code
[go]$$Bc
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . .
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . .
$$ | . X X X X X X X . . .
$$ | . X O O . O O X . , .
$$ | . X O . O . O X . . .
$$ | . X O 2 1 X O X X . .
$$ | . X 5 X . 4 3 O . . .
$$ +-----------------------[/go]

Click Here To Show Diagram Code
[go]$$Bc 8 at 6, 9 at 7
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . .
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . .
$$ | . X X X X X X X . . .
$$ | . X O O . O O X . , .
$$ | . X O . O 4 O X . . .
$$ | . X O 2 1 X O X X . .
$$ | . X 5 X 6 7 3 O . . .
$$ +-----------------------[/go]

Model solution from book
is a ko :)
Click Here To Show Diagram Code
[go]$$Bc
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . .
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . .
$$ | . X X X X X X X . . .
$$ | . X O O . O O X . , .
$$ | . X O . O O O X . . .
$$ | . X O O 3 2 O X X . .
$$ | . X X X O 1 . O . . .
$$ +-----------------------[/go]

_________________
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A blog on Asian go books, go sightings, and interesting tidbits
Go is such a beautiful game.
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Offline Alguien
 Post subject: Re: Interesting high dan tsumego
Post #12 Posted: Mon Jan 14, 2013 1:32 am 
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Beautiful problem.

I like those chains of one liberty (the children of crane's nest) but they're still too hard for me to see.
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Offline lovelove
 Post subject: Re: Interesting high dan tsumego
Post #13 Posted: Mon Jan 14, 2013 1:34 am 
Lives in gote

Posts: 604
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Was liked: 365
Rank: Tygem 5 Dan
tchan001 wrote:
lovelove wrote:
ez4u's reading is right.
Click Here To Show Diagram Code
[go]$$Bc
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . .
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . .
$$ | . X X X X X X X . . .
$$ | . X O O . O O X . , .
$$ | . X O . O . O X . . .
$$ | . X O 2 1 X O X X . .
$$ | . X 5 X . 4 3 O . . .
$$ +-----------------------[/go]

Click Here To Show Diagram Code
[go]$$Bc 8 at 6, 9 at 7
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . .
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . .
$$ | . X X X X X X X . . .
$$ | . X O O . O O X . , .
$$ | . X O . O 4 O X . . .
$$ | . X O 2 1 X O X X . .
$$ | . X 5 X 6 7 3 O . . .
$$ +-----------------------[/go]

Model solution from book
is a ko :)
Click Here To Show Diagram Code
[go]$$Bc
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . .
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . .
$$ | . X X X X X X X . . .
$$ | . X O O . O O X . , .
$$ | . X O . O O O X . . .
$$ | . X O O 3 2 O X X . .
$$ | . X X X O 1 . O . . .
$$ +-----------------------[/go]

I see... :roll:

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Offline Dusk Eagle
 Post subject: Re: Interesting high dan tsumego
Post #14 Posted: Mon Jan 14, 2013 1:47 am 
Gosei
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Rank: 4d
Ah, :w8: is the move I missed.

Click Here To Show Diagram Code
[go]$$Bc
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . .
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . .
$$ | . X X X X X X X . . .
$$ | . X O O 8 O O X . , .
$$ | . X O . O . O X . . .
$$ | . X O 3 7 1 O X X . .
$$ | . X 4 5 O 2 X 6 . . .
$$ +-----------------------[/go]

_________________
We don't know who we are; we don't know where we are.
Each of us woke up one moment and here we were in the darkness.
We're nameless things with no memory; no knowledge of what went before,
No understanding of what is now, no knowledge of what will be.
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 Profile  
 
Offline ez4u
 Post subject: Re: Interesting high dan tsumego
Post #15 Posted: Mon Jan 14, 2013 2:11 am 
Oza
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Posts: 2414
Location: Tokyo, Japan
Liked others: 2351
Was liked: 1332
Rank: Jp 6 dan
KGS: ez4u
Dusk Eagle wrote:
Ah, :w8: is the move I missed.

Click Here To Show Diagram Code
[go]$$Bc
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . .
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . .
$$ | . X X X X X X X . . .
$$ | . X O O 8 O O X . , .
$$ | . X O . O . O X . . .
$$ | . X O 3 7 1 O X X . .
$$ | . X 4 5 O 2 X 6 . . .
$$ +-----------------------[/go]

Yes!

_________________
Dave Sigaty
"Short-lived are both the praiser and the praised, and rememberer and the remembered..."
- Marcus Aurelius; Meditations, VIII 21
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Offline Josh Hatch
 Post subject: Re: Interesting high dan tsumego
Post #16 Posted: Mon Jan 14, 2013 12:15 pm 
Dies in gote

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Was liked: 6
tchan001 wrote:
Here's an interesting tsumego which has recently stumped a good friend on KGS recently. From a somewhat recent Japanese problem book for dans. Enjoy
Black to move

Click Here To Show Diagram Code
[go]$$Bc
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . .
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . .
$$ | . X X X X X X X . . .
$$ | . X O O . O O X . , .
$$ | . X O . O . O X . . .
$$ | . X O . . . O X X . .
$$ | . X . . O . X . . . .
$$ +-----------------------[/go]


I thought I recognized this problem. Tien had this problem when he was an insei in Japan and posted about it on his blog. http://gooften.net/2011/12/06/sample-insei-tsumego/
There's some discussion of the problem in the comments on his post.
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