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 Post subject: 1001 GoGoD games for your Coffee Break #10 (18 January 2013
Post #1 Posted: Fri Jan 18, 2013 1:54 am 
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A kind of GoGoD catch-phrase is “Move 8 is bad!” and this is a game to illustrate it. In 1995, Go Seigen was commenting on the fuseki of O Rissei, 9dan(Wang Licheng), and the first 8 moves were the same as in this game. Go commented that move 8 is bad but this is the first game in the database where it was played in 1936, by Go himself against Kitani Minoru. When O published a book with Go’s commentaries in 1996, the popularity of this fuseki dropped dramatically, although some pros have continued to experiment with it. We now have 174 games, with the winning percentage exactly split at 50% for both Black and White.

Best wishes. I now hand you back to the studio, where normal service will be resumed.


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 Post subject: Re: 1001 GoGoD games for your Coffee Break #10 (18 January 2
Post #2 Posted: Fri Jan 18, 2013 6:00 am 
Judan

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I've heard Go doesn't like that shape before. Am I correct in thinking he doesn't like the m17 gap, and prefers either L16 if you want to develop the top (as that is stronger to the centre to counter black's moyo) or the q18 slide?

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 Post subject: Re: 1001 GoGoD games for your Coffee Break #10 (18 January 2
Post #3 Posted: Fri Jan 18, 2013 6:55 am 
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M16 and Q18 (which woulf relly need an extension if Black answers in the corner) still suffer the same problem, that they let Black now dictate play on the lower edge. Go's idea seemed to be that move 6 had prompted 7 and White should now approach the lower right corner. If Black replies in the same way, White could consider the result a success, Black having passively played in an area that he had already mapped out, and White should play a san-ren-sei of his own.

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 Post subject: Re: 1001 GoGoD games for your Coffee Break #10 (18 January 2
Post #4 Posted: Sat Jan 26, 2013 11:49 am 
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I had hoped for more comments from people but we can only lay out our wares and hope that you respond. What interested me today was this game which I found in a Kido in 1949. It appears to be the final of Group B of the Autumn Oteai, which was won by Yamabe Toshiro. Previously, the earliest example we had of the moves to White 10 was between O Rissei (white) against Cho Chikun in October 1995 and it appeared there that O had taken Go Seigen’s advice; Yamabe seems to have known it intuitively.



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 Post subject: Re: 1001 GoGoD games for your Coffee Break #10 (18 January 2
Post #5 Posted: Sat Jan 26, 2013 9:52 pm 
Oza
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I'm afraid I have nothing of value to add to the discussion of w8, but I do have a question on the first game. As of B11, black has stones on q6, q10, q14. I am familiar with the idea of anchoring high stones with low extensions, but I'm always less sure about what to do when a high extension is already in place. How much of a loss does b take by using q10 as a (slightly misplaced) extension from both corners? Is there a case to be made for a low extension (r6 and r14) instead? (My assumption is that the low stones would make q10 much too early.) Practically speaking, is q6-q10-q14 slightly less defensible than q6-r10-q14, or much less?

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 Post subject: Re: 1001 GoGoD games for your Coffee Break #10 (18 January 2
Post #6 Posted: Mon Jan 28, 2013 1:38 am 
Oza
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What exactly did Go have to say? In "A Way of Play for the 21st Century", he simply says that 8 is one way to play and there are others. Today I was looking at 21st Century Fuseki vol. 3 (二十一世紀の布石〈3〉星・中国流篇 - published in 2003) in the bookstore and White 8 passes completely without comment, in the first example game for San Ren Sei.

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 Post subject: Re: 1001 GoGoD games for your Coffee Break #10 (18 January 2
Post #7 Posted: Mon Jan 28, 2013 2:42 am 
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White 8 is mentioned in A Dictionary of Modern Fuseki: The Korean Style. But it just says "White is developing quickly" and "The result is even". It seems it is one of the many equal ways to deal with San-Ren-Sei.

Click Here To Show Diagram Code
[go]$$Wc A Dictionary of Modern Fuseki; p. 22, Dia 13
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$$ | . . . O . . . . . 7 . . . 8 . X . . . |
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$$ | . . . 9 . . . . . , . . . . . X . . . |
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$$ | . . . O . . . . . 5 . . . . . X . . . |
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$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ ---------------------------------------[/go]

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