Middlegame Tactics

Talk about improving your game, resources you like, games you played, etc.
Post Reply
User avatar
Annihilist
Lives with ko
Posts: 161
Joined: Mon Oct 22, 2012 2:47 am
Rank: KGS 10 kyu
GD Posts: 0
KGS: Annihilist
IGS: Annihilist
DGS: Ubermensch
Kaya handle: Annihilist
Has thanked: 26 times
Been thanked: 18 times

Middlegame Tactics

Post by Annihilist »

Generally when I play, I have a solid fuseki, and a decent endgame. I'm decent at both, I think. But I struggle in the middle game, and quite often I lose because one of my large groups die or I fail an invasion and, while struggling to keep it alive, give my opponent 20 or so free stones.

Overall, I find the middlegame difficult to understand, and I'm not good at it. I don't really know why. So this thread is for a discussion of improving one's middlegame.
hailthorn011
Lives in sente
Posts: 1160
Joined: Tue Jun 01, 2010 1:34 pm
Rank: KGS 6k
GD Posts: 0
Universal go server handle: hailthorn
Location: VA, USA
Has thanked: 183 times
Been thanked: 100 times
Contact:

Re: Middlegame Tactics

Post by hailthorn011 »

Annihilist wrote:Generally when I play, I have a solid fuseki, and a decent endgame. I'm decent at both, I think. But I struggle in the middle game, and quite often I lose because one of my large groups die or I fail an invasion and, while struggling to keep it alive, give my opponent 20 or so free stones.

Overall, I find the middlegame difficult to understand, and I'm not good at it. I don't really know why. So this thread is for a discussion of improving one's middlegame.
I think my terrible fuseki is why I have a difficult time in the middle game. But maybe Attack and Defense could help you with your middle game.
Slava Ukraini!
skydyr
Oza
Posts: 2495
Joined: Wed Aug 01, 2012 8:06 am
GD Posts: 0
Universal go server handle: skydyr
Online playing schedule: When my wife is out.
Location: DC
Has thanked: 156 times
Been thanked: 436 times

Re: Middlegame Tactics

Post by skydyr »

I have to second the recommendation to read Attack and Defense if you haven't already. It's a good introduction to how you attack, how you defend, and how to keep groups from becoming weak, or take advantage of them when they do. Where the opening is all about setting up groups, the middle game is about the interplay between them. This is guided by relative strength and weakness. A lot of the middle game is also about making sure that you don't encourage your opponent to weaken another of your groups globally in response to your locally good move, and similarly, trying to force your opponent to weaken one of his groups in the process of saving another, so you can roll from position to position attacking and reducing around the board.

Studying shape can also help, to some degree, since bad shape creates weaknesses even if it gets a couple more points.
Phoenix
Lives with ko
Posts: 276
Joined: Fri Aug 17, 2012 9:44 pm
GD Posts: 0
Has thanked: 301 times
Been thanked: 127 times

Re: Middlegame Tactics

Post by Phoenix »

"Attack and Defense" re-seconded. :tmbup:
User avatar
Joaz Banbeck
Judan
Posts: 5546
Joined: Sun Dec 06, 2009 11:30 am
Rank: 1D AGA
GD Posts: 1512
Kaya handle: Test
Location: Banbeck Vale
Has thanked: 1080 times
Been thanked: 1434 times

Re: Middlegame Tactics

Post by Joaz Banbeck »

One of the biggest causes of losing groups that I have seen among kyu players is the tenacious defence of stone that should just be abandoned. Any time you have an urge to defend a loose stone or two, ask yourself how much it would cost you to lose it. Then see if you have a move elsewhere that is bigger. ( Keep in mind that it is usually gote for your opponent to capture - and gote for you to save it. )
Help make L19 more organized. Make an index: https://lifein19x19.com/viewtopic.php?f=14&t=5207
User avatar
Annihilist
Lives with ko
Posts: 161
Joined: Mon Oct 22, 2012 2:47 am
Rank: KGS 10 kyu
GD Posts: 0
KGS: Annihilist
IGS: Annihilist
DGS: Ubermensch
Kaya handle: Annihilist
Has thanked: 26 times
Been thanked: 18 times

Re: Middlegame Tactics

Post by Annihilist »

Joaz Banbeck wrote:One of the biggest causes of losing groups that I have seen among kyu players is the tenacious defence of stone that should just be abandoned. Any time you have an urge to defend a loose stone or two, ask yourself how much it would cost you to lose it. Then see if you have a move elsewhere that is bigger. ( Keep in mind that it is usually gote for your opponent to capture - and gote for you to save it. )
This helped a bit, and Attack and Defense (whether you are reffering to the concepts and/or a book) is definitely worth a look for me. Thanks guys
User avatar
EdLee
Honinbo
Posts: 8859
Joined: Sat Apr 24, 2010 6:49 pm
GD Posts: 312
Location: Santa Barbara, CA
Has thanked: 349 times
Been thanked: 2070 times

Post by EdLee »

Annihilist wrote:I find the middlegame difficult to understand, and I'm not good at it. I don't really know why.
So this thread is for a discussion of improving one's middlegame.
The usual suspects include (but are not limited to):
- shape problems
- reading skills
- direction problems
- tesuji problems
- life-and-death
- capture race
- ko
- important versus unimportant stones
- positional judgement
- counting skills

Instead of discussing all these issues in the abstract,
get your serious games reviewed, one by one (by good teachers/reviewers).
This is one way to find out where your problems lie, what are your weakest areas.
Only when you realize where your problems are -- specifically, not abstractly --
will you start to understand why you are not good at the middle game (or any other parts of Go).
Then, you work on fixing these problems, one by one. This is one way to improve.
User avatar
otenki
Lives in gote
Posts: 415
Joined: Wed Jan 04, 2012 9:41 am
Rank: EGF 2k
GD Posts: 0
Universal go server handle: tygempanda
Location: Antwerp, Belgium
Has thanked: 43 times
Been thanked: 32 times

Re: Middlegame Tactics

Post by otenki »

-> as I'm not so strong please take my comments with a grain of salt.

I totaly agree with Ed on taking the more practical aproach by letting a stronger player review. Howhever I do think I can give a few general tips to try out and get better.

I personaly almost never get to endgame so I'm not so good at it. And my fuseki/joseki is terible because I find it hard to read things in the beginning. Joseki can be really hard to read for me.

Howhever usualy I make it up in midgame against players of the same strength.

I did a few things to get better at midgame:

-My first tip would be NOT to read attack and defence before you can read decently. There is no point in learning how to make profit while attacking if you do not understand the vital points of groups. Attack and defence will not tell you. Do learn what a splitting and leaning attack is though.

- Like it! Do not feel scared or frustrated when someone is attacking, take the oportunity to read well and see if this attack is not from a weak group so you can counter attack. Looking at a few games of Kato Masao helps :-)
- Try everything out. Some players will (especialy around 2-5 kyu kgs) tell you that lots of stuff you do is not by the book. But go is not that simple and especialy in midgame you just have to read a lot and see what works. Even if it looks wierd to those who only play on pattern recognition.
- Play on the tygem server, this forces you to fight everywhere and always. Even in endgame.

My last tip is maybe a bit controversial but I would like to give it anyway:

- Play lots of games where you try to capture a big group. This means playing very agressively and read a lot. The controversial thing about it howhever is that it can become a bad habbit. You will not think about profit anymore but just about killing. Nevertheless I think it is a step you must go through before you can attack to make profit instead. The reason for it is that you don't know what the killing moves are to threaten if you did not go through the first process. And in that case if your oponent can read the move well enough then he will ignore and counterattack for example.

I wish you all the best on your midgame journeys :-)

Cheers,
Otenki
peppernut
Dies in gote
Posts: 63
Joined: Tue Oct 09, 2012 4:51 am
Rank: 5k
GD Posts: 0
KGS: peppernut
Has thanked: 12 times
Been thanked: 21 times

Re: Middlegame Tactics

Post by peppernut »

Joaz Banbeck wrote:One of the biggest causes of losing groups that I have seen among kyu players is the tenacious defence of stone that should just be abandoned. Any time you have an urge to defend a loose stone or two, ask yourself how much it would cost you to lose it. Then see if you have a move elsewhere that is bigger. ( Keep in mind that it is usually gote for your opponent to capture - and gote for you to save it. )

I have simliar weaknesses as the original poster, and I just want to say that Joaz's advice is good ... but it also applies to *groups* that should be abandoned.

You will lose stones, and you will lose groups. Finding a way to use the aji of those groups to get something else locally, or take sente to tenuki, and you can lose fights and still win the game.
Uberdude
Judan
Posts: 6727
Joined: Thu Nov 24, 2011 11:35 am
Rank: UK 4 dan
GD Posts: 0
KGS: Uberdude 4d
OGS: Uberdude 7d
Location: Cambridge, UK
Has thanked: 436 times
Been thanked: 3718 times

Re: Middlegame Tactics

Post by Uberdude »

Joaz Banbeck wrote:One of the biggest causes of losing groups that I have seen among kyu players is the tenacious defence of stone that should just be abandoned. Any time you have an urge to defend a loose stone or two, ask yourself how much it would cost you to lose it. Then see if you have a move elsewhere that is bigger. ( Keep in mind that it is usually gote for your opponent to capture - and gote for you to save it. )
I find it rather ironic that Joaz said this now, as although it is true that hanging on to stones that should be sacrificed is a problem, the reverse can also be true. For example right now in his Malkovich game against Magicwand he just sacrificed some key cutting stones.
Twitchy Go
Lives with ko
Posts: 290
Joined: Sun Apr 01, 2012 8:00 pm
Rank: KGS 4k ish
GD Posts: 0
Universal go server handle: TwitchyGo
Online playing schedule: When I can, not necessarily often. Yet sometimes alot. <shrug>
Has thanked: 59 times
Been thanked: 20 times

Re: Middlegame Tactics

Post by Twitchy Go »

I really need to echo the idea of getting your games reviewed. Recently I was able to get a high dan to review a few of my games(and even play a teaching game) and he was able to show me a problem in my play. Apparently I'm very bad at choosing/handling reductions and invasions. Once he pointed it out, I could see why this was an area of my go that was losing me games and can now work on it. :)
User avatar
Loons
Gosei
Posts: 1378
Joined: Tue Apr 20, 2010 4:17 am
GD Posts: 0
Location: wHam!lton, Aotearoa
Has thanked: 253 times
Been thanked: 105 times

Re: Middlegame Tactics

Post by Loons »

I think this phenomena I notice in my own games is related:

"But I was clearly winning! How did this fight I lost even start? I will find my mistake."

...

"Oh, I played thinner than I could handle here, which is retrospectively why I looked like I was winning by so much".
Revisiting Go - Study Journal
My Programming Blog - About the evolution of my go bot.
Post Reply