Nova.gs -- A modern web go server

EdLee · Post by **EdLee** » Mon Jan 28, 2013 7:32 pm

anoek wrote:Are you sure you weren't seeing placed handicap stones on the star points?

I'm 100% sure.

On my laptop's screen, the current star points should be 1/3 or 1/4th of their current diameter.
But, as matburt points out, it's different for mobile devices with very small screens.

anoek wrote:As in, you want an option to disable it on *your* screen, or you want a game option whereby the score isn't displayed on either players screen throughout the game?

Correct -- using a score estimator should be DISabled by default.

But if both players agree (for beginners, mostly), you can enable it for both players.

anoek · Post by **anoek** » Mon Jan 28, 2013 8:29 pm

EdLee wrote:
anoek wrote:Are you sure you weren't seeing placed handicap stones on the star points?
I'm 100% sure. On my laptop's screen, the current star points should be 1/3 or 1/4th of their current diameter.
But, as matburt points out, it's different for mobile devices with very small screens.
anoek wrote:As in, you want an option to disable it on *your* screen, or you want a game option whereby the score isn't displayed on either players screen throughout the game?
Correct -- using a score estimator should be DISabled by default.
But if both players agree (for beginners, mostly), you can enable it for both players.

Cool, I'll fix up the star point sizes here soon, and I'll add the optional score display to the feature list

For clarification, the score display currently works by adding up (as appropriate for the rule set) territory, area, prisoners, and komi, then displays that to you. Should some of this remain visible (such as displaying the prisoner count and komi) when using territory scoring? Or should all score related stuff be hidden?

msgreg · Post by **msgreg** » Mon Jan 28, 2013 8:46 pm

anoek wrote:
EdLee wrote:
anoek wrote:Are you sure you weren't seeing placed handicap stones on the star points?
I'm 100% sure. On my laptop's screen, the current star points should be 1/3 or 1/4th of their current diameter.
But, as matburt points out, it's different for mobile devices with very small screens.
anoek wrote:As in, you want an option to disable it on *your* screen, or you want a game option whereby the score isn't displayed on either players screen throughout the game?
Correct -- using a score estimator should be DISabled by default.
But if both players agree (for beginners, mostly), you can enable it for both players.

Cool, I'll fix up the star point sizes here soon, and I'll add the optional score display to the feature list

For clarification, the score display currently works by adding up (as appropriate for the rule set) territory, area, prisoners, and komi, then displays that to you. Should some of this remain visible (such as displaying the prisoner count and komi) when using territory scoring? Or should all score related stuff be hidden?

The option to disable for both for a specific game should definitely be there. It could easily provide an advantage. Rated games, for example, should probably not include a score display at all during the game.

It probably makes sense at the end of the game (or when displayed in-game) that those line items that don't count (prisoners during area scoring) are not shown.

badukJr · Post by **badukJr** » Mon Jan 28, 2013 8:53 pm

Score estimation during games is a thing that is sometimes debated. Some servers don't allow the players to do it, others do. I think having it as a negotiation option is a good compromise.

msgreg · Post by **msgreg** » Mon Jan 28, 2013 8:56 pm

badukJr wrote:Score estimation during games is a thing that is sometimes debated. Some servers don't allow the players to do it, others do. I think having it as a negotiation option is a good compromise.

But doesn't that complicate ratings calculations? Certainly skill at go includes skill at score estimation. So a player that is poor at estimating score will rate higher during games at which he/she can enable the score estimator, artificially increasing his/her rating relative to opponents that can estimate score well with or without the score estimator.

badukJr · Post by **badukJr** » Mon Jan 28, 2013 10:23 pm

I just don't see it as that big of deal. Score estimation and comparison of different branches of play contributes a lot to strength, but you can't do that with a score estimator. Current game estimation can tell you to play complicated or simply but its not as a big of an effect.

BobC · Post by **BobC** » Tue Jan 29, 2013 3:16 am

I played a game on this last night (against a 30 Kyu - I got killed).

I must say I really like the server.Good feel and it's got features like groups, tournaments (planned) that I would like to use. The correspondence -> live feature is good.

We tried a Malkovich type live game but the strain was a little much......

Here's the game. On reflection I made some screamers.... Comments welcome...

Kaya.gs · Post by **Kaya.gs** » Tue Jan 29, 2013 7:59 am

msgreg wrote:
badukJr wrote:Score estimation during games is a thing that is sometimes debated. Some servers don't allow the players to do it, others do. I think having it as a negotiation option is a good compromise.

But doesn't that complicate ratings calculations? Certainly skill at go includes skill at score estimation. So a player that is poor at estimating score will rate higher during games at which he/she can enable the score estimator, artificially increasing his/her rating relative to opponents that can estimate score well with or without the score estimator.

On Kaya.gs we debated ourselves not having score estimation on live games because of this conundrum. However, correspondence games do have estimation, as a player could arrive to the same conclusion of the SE given enough time. The reasoning is that because the player has the ability to do so, making it easier for him is just a tool.

If you were to agree with that, then allowing SE is just about the ability to "appraise quickly(under time constraints) the situation of the game".

In the end i do believe it affects skill, and it may also have the famous "i never count because i have SE" effect that might be adverse to the strength of the players.

There is a similar situation though, with Joseki Dictionaries. I;m totally up for them to be used on live games. Being able to consult a joseki dictionary during a game definitely affects the outcome of the game, however I don't see the negative effect of a player having the knowledge of a rather even position, as opposed to the memory of it.
It would raise the quality of the games (as less would be decided by joseki mistakes) and it would lower the application of hametes and obscure josekis(which hamper both progress and fun)

It is strange though, how many players are strongly against such a thing and are angered by the mere suggestion. Bottom-line the decision becomes "political".

Okay, this is was bit OT

.

Yesterday i got into Nova.gs and talked quite a bit with anoek. I think they did a great job, kudos to them. The service is stable, and I have to feel flattered by the implementation of several features

.

They have a similar architecture we use, and leveraged some very nice modern technologies.

As i told anoek yesterday, i hope there is space for collaboration, to better both our services.

matburt · Post by **matburt** » Tue Jan 29, 2013 1:39 pm

@BobC: Somehow I think Dank might have been a little higher than 30k

anoek · Post by **anoek** » Mon Feb 04, 2013 10:57 pm

Hey All,

It's been a very successful week over at Nova.gs and we've just pushed up our first major update!

What's New:

A turn notification icon has been added to indicate when and how many games it is your turn on - click it to advance to the next game!
Group pages now have a live game grid and full list of all the games being played by members of that group
The main page has a live game grid and full list of all games going on in the server
Lots of tweaks and bug fixes
At least some connection issues resolved - Please let us know if you continue to have problems!

Coming up next:

Much improved chat system
Private messaging
Stone removal phase improvements
Player online / presence indicators for games
Ability to draw on the board during game analysis
Selectable (and possibly custom) board & stone themes

And of course we'll continue to be making UI tweaks and improvements throughout the process based on your feedback.

Note: If you've sent us feedback and it hasn't gotten integrated yet, it probably just means we haven't gotten to it yet, there are a lot of great ideas we've logged in our internal issue tracker and we'll be implementing them as we go along!

anoek · Post by **anoek** » Tue Feb 19, 2013 9:17 pm

Hey All,

We've got another batch of updates up:

What's New:

Added the ability to draw on the boards during analysis mode
Added several stone and board themes, things look *much* prettier now!
Improved the stone removal phase to be quicker to cull out those dead stones and dame points
Moved to a very stable IRC backed chat system
Added full support for international characters when labeling a board
Significantly improved the performance of rendering and stone placement on mobile devices
Games can now be viewed by users without an account, just give them the game URL
Game SGFs can now be directly linked to

Coming up next:

Live review mode, which is another step towards a full featured lecture mode
A game tree view
Beta tournaments! Join the Nova Go Enthusiasts group to be part of the first tournaments.
A move of our DNS and static content to global CDN's, which should reduce the load times for our international players
Player online / presence indicators for games
Private messaging

And as always we'll continue to be making UI tweaks and improvements throughout the process based on your input, so let us know how we can be better!

Note: If you've sent us feedback and it hasn't gotten integrated yet, it probably just means we haven't gotten to it yet, there are a lot of great ideas we've logged in our internal issue tracker and we'll be implementing them as we go along!

EdLee · Post by **EdLee** » Tue Feb 19, 2013 10:07 pm

The new default wood, new black stones, and new shell stones (with randomized grain rotation!) are much prettier than before:
(screenshot saved at 80% of actual quality):

( Still waiting for a real full-screen mode!

But thanks! )

anoek · Post by **anoek** » Tue Feb 19, 2013 11:12 pm

Glad you like the new board and stones

I think we may have your fullscreen mode in as early as next patch. We're planning on adding in "layout themes" along with the site color themes.. so baring any major complications with that, you should have a fullscreen layout available then

EdLee · Post by **EdLee** » Wed Feb 20, 2013 5:58 am

anoek wrote:Glad you like the new board and stones

Small suggestion: the glare/reflection on the shell stones may be a bit too strong right now -- it looks like a white dot.
If you could soften the glare, like you did on the black stones, it may look nicer. Thanks.

anoek · Post by **anoek** » Thu Feb 21, 2013 8:00 am

EdLee wrote:Small suggestion: the glare/reflection on the shell stones may be a bit too strong right now -- it looks like a white dot.
If you could soften the glare, like you did on the black stones, it may look nicer. Thanks.

I tweaked them a bit - is that any better?

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