H3 against 1d

[otenki]

I played against a 1d with 3 handi and lost mostly I think because of 142 where i should have just kosumi'd against the stone to create life in the corner.
At this point I was allready pretty tired from reading the whole board so pretty silly mistake.

I wonder about the rest of the game though.

F17 correct way to enter his framwork ?( move 46 )

What kind of shape mistakes did I make during fighting for the two center groups?

Thanks, I'm black obviously

Otenki

[p2501]

reverse sandbag?

[otenki]

reverse sandbag?

No, I've beaten 3k's before. (as you can see here: http://www.lifein19x19.com/forum/viewto ... f=4&t=7902)

Cheers,
Otenki

[p2501]

I totally get confused with what people are rated on different servers. You are EGF 10k and KGS 3k?

[otenki]

Last real life tournament I started of as an 11kyu and almost won all my games. (4/5)
I won my last game against an EGF 6 kyu (which is about kgs 3kyu). (http://senseis.xmp.net/?RankWorldwideComparison)

Howhever my rank only shifted only from 11kyu to 10kyu.

So I think I'm more like 6-7kyu egf but I cannot prove it yet.

Cheers,
Otenki

[skydyr]

Some comments, though take them with a grain of salt:

Moves through 14: Not sure if I like giving white such a strong group here right off the bat. It could easily consolidate a lot of the top side because in the event of an invasion, white has absolutely no concerns about this side and the corner may turn out strong quite easily. There is a big corner for black, though, but it still seems open to reduction depending on the way play proceeds.

Move 16: Black has already got a stone pincering white's move. Pincering closer seems slack. The classic move is to kick white at R5 to keep him out of the corner and make him heavy, followed by a one space jump along the side when white stands up to keep the pressure on. This leaves the corner open to a minor invasion, but white can't take advantage without damaging the original group for a while.

Move 20: With the white kakari in place, black has liberty problems when he hanes here. That said, in certain circumstances it is a valid choice. It worked out in this game, but I think white should have traded S3 for S4 and then cut, knowing he could capture either P3 or R4.

Move 38: I think this may be an overplay. Personally, I would take the corner immediately as white and then fight on the side.

Move 46: I don't like this move. My two thoughts are to probe the corner first, or to approach from the outside. M14 looks like a good move on the border of two moyos, and white isn't strong enough to keep black out completely. In terms of scoring, black has at least 60 points on the board right now, and apart from white's 100ish point moyo, white has next to nothing. Between living in the corner and reducing from the outside, I think black should be able to keep the game well in hand. The move in the game, on the other hand, prompts white to solidify a great deal of territory while starting a complicated and difficult fight in white's area.

Move 48: If ever there were a time to play lightly, this is it. A one or even two space jump should be okay, because if white cuts to capture the one stone, the other will get away and much of white's moyo will be ruined. Another thought is to hane and sacrifice one side or the other to gain momentum. White is so strong in this area compared to black, that black has to give white something. Setting up a group as bait for white to capture while reducing from the outside to 'save' it may be another good strategy.

I think the fighting is a natural consequence of those two moves and black's heaviness preventing him from sacrificing. Black saves his groups, which is reasonable, but in the process white gets territory and the power to invade and reduce all of black's positions.

[otenki]

Some comments, though take them with a grain of salt:

Moves through 14: Not sure if I like giving white such a strong group here right off the bat. It could easily consolidate a lot of the top side because in the event of an invasion, white has absolutely no concerns about this side and the corner may turn out strong quite easily. There is a big corner for black, though, but it still seems open to reduction depending on the way play proceeds.

Move 16: Black has already got a stone pincering white's move. Pincering closer seems slack. The classic move is to kick white at R5 to keep him out of the corner and make him heavy, followed by a one space jump along the side when white stands up to keep the pressure on. This leaves the corner open to a minor invasion, but white can't take advantage without damaging the original group for a while.

Move 20: With the white kakari in place, black has liberty problems when he hanes here. That said, in certain circumstances it is a valid choice. It worked out in this game, but I think white should have traded S3 for S4 and then cut, knowing he could capture either P3 or R4.

Move 38: I think this may be an overplay. Personally, I would take the corner immediately as white and then fight on the side.

Move 46: I don't like this move. My two thoughts are to probe the corner first, or to approach from the outside. M14 looks like a good move on the border of two moyos, and white isn't strong enough to keep black out completely. In terms of scoring, black has at least 60 points on the board right now, and apart from white's 100ish point moyo, white has next to nothing. Between living in the corner and reducing from the outside, I think black should be able to keep the game well in hand. The move in the game, on the other hand, prompts white to solidify a great deal of territory while starting a complicated and difficult fight in white's area.

Move 48: If ever there were a time to play lightly, this is it. A one or even two space jump should be okay, because if white cuts to capture the one stone, the other will get away and much of white's moyo will be ruined. Another thought is to hane and sacrifice one side or the other to gain momentum. White is so strong in this area compared to black, that black has to give white something. Setting up a group as bait for white to capture while reducing from the outside to 'save' it may be another good strategy.

I think the fighting is a natural consequence of those two moves and black's heaviness preventing him from sacrificing. Black saves his groups, which is reasonable, but in the process white gets territory and the power to invade and reduce all of black's positions.

Thanks for your comments, I agree with most of them. Here are my thoughts:

14: I don't agree with you, I think the corner is massive and very hard to invade.
16: Yeah I agree with you, I should have been more forcefull.
20: Maybe, I read I could be ok, now I'm not sure.
38: I don't agree because I will easily let him take the corner, the corner is not worth a lot because I have open corner. (see N2)
If he would have taken the corner I would have loved a position on the side. Thats why 39 is correct move for white I think.

46: Your right, I learned this move some time ago, its for invading of the ogema enclosure. But I guess it is very bad with the influence on the right...

Probe at C17 maybe better to start with ? and build sabaki from there ? I think it would also be a fight though...

Move 48: I'm not sure, enclosure is not really that strong with whites thickness on the right... Maybe sabaki to center instead ? (F15 or so ?)

I'm still a bit lost on how to make some good shape in his potential though...

Cheers,

Otenki

[Shaddy]

You should not stick so closely to your opponent's stones.

[Shaddy]

Some comments, though take them with a grain of salt:

Moves through 14: Not sure if I like giving white such a strong group here right off the bat. It could easily consolidate a lot of the top side because in the event of an invasion, white has absolutely no concerns about this side and the corner may turn out strong quite easily. There is a big corner for black, though, but it still seems open to reduction depending on the way play proceeds.

Move 16: Black has already got a stone pincering white's move. Pincering closer seems slack. The classic move is to kick white at R5 to keep him out of the corner and make him heavy, followed by a one space jump along the side when white stands up to keep the pressure on. This leaves the corner open to a minor invasion, but white can't take advantage without damaging the original group for a while.

Move 20: With the white kakari in place, black has liberty problems when he hanes here. That said, in certain circumstances it is a valid choice. It worked out in this game, but I think white should have traded S3 for S4 and then cut, knowing he could capture either P3 or R4.

Move 38: I think this may be an overplay. Personally, I would take the corner immediately as white and then fight on the side.

Move 46: I don't like this move. My two thoughts are to probe the corner first, or to approach from the outside. M14 looks like a good move on the border of two moyos, and white isn't strong enough to keep black out completely. In terms of scoring, black has at least 60 points on the board right now, and apart from white's 100ish point moyo, white has next to nothing. Between living in the corner and reducing from the outside, I think black should be able to keep the game well in hand. The move in the game, on the other hand, prompts white to solidify a great deal of territory while starting a complicated and difficult fight in white's area.

Move 48: If ever there were a time to play lightly, this is it. A one or even two space jump should be okay, because if white cuts to capture the one stone, the other will get away and much of white's moyo will be ruined. Another thought is to hane and sacrifice one side or the other to gain momentum. White is so strong in this area compared to black, that black has to give white something. Setting up a group as bait for white to capture while reducing from the outside to 'save' it may be another good strategy.

I think the fighting is a natural consequence of those two moves and black's heaviness preventing him from sacrificing. Black saves his groups, which is reasonable, but in the process white gets territory and the power to invade and reduce all of black's positions.

Thanks for your comments, I agree with most of them. Here are my thoughts:

14: I don't agree with you, I think the corner is massive and very hard to invade.
16: Yeah I agree with you, I should have been more forcefull.
20: Maybe, I read I could be ok, now I'm not sure.
38: I don't agree because I will easily let him take the corner, the corner is not worth a lot because I have open corner. (see N2)
If he would have taken the corner I would have loved a position on the side. Thats why 39 is correct move for white I think.

46: Your right, I learned this move some time ago, its for invading of the ogema enclosure. But I guess it is very bad with the influence on the right...

Probe at C17 maybe better to start with ? and build sabaki from there ? I think it would also be a fight though...

Move 48: I'm not sure, enclosure is not really that strong with whites thickness on the right... Maybe sabaki to center instead ? (F15 or so ?)

I'm still a bit lost on how to make some good shape in his potential though...

Cheers,

Otenki

14: The proverb says the turtle-shell (w's shape) is worth 60 points.
38: Just because the corner is open doesn't mean you should throw it away. With the other standard moves in this position, black has the option to take the corner with a single move later. This move doesn't have that option; anyway, it's too close to white's stones.

[skydyr]

Thanks for your comments, I agree with most of them. Here are my thoughts:

14: I don't agree with you, I think the corner is massive and very hard to invade.
16: Yeah I agree with you, I should have been more forcefull.
20: Maybe, I read I could be ok, now I'm not sure.
38: I don't agree because I will easily let him take the corner, the corner is not worth a lot because I have open corner. (see N2)
If he would have taken the corner I would have loved a position on the side. Thats why 39 is correct move for white I think.

46: Your right, I learned this move some time ago, its for invading of the ogema enclosure. But I guess it is very bad with the influence on the right...

Probe at C17 maybe better to start with ? and build sabaki from there ? I think it would also be a fight though...

Move 48: I'm not sure, enclosure is not really that strong with whites thickness on the right... Maybe sabaki to center instead ? (F15 or so ?)

I'm still a bit lost on how to make some good shape in his potential though...

Cheers,

Otenki

Regarding 38, N2 does limit black's potential on the bottom side, but the corner is far enough from there that black still has good prospects. If you think the corner is not big, perhaps defending with the ogeima at G3 to invite white to invade the corner is better, and you can take influence facing up the left side. If white doesn't invade, black can make 15 points with one more move.

C17 is one option. White may just let you take the corner also in response, since there is a lot of potential outside. Playing on the border of two moyos from the outside is big too. If black can reduce enough from the outside, then it's a lot easier than a fight in white's zone. White does get something, but you don't need all the points, just more than half of them.

[otenki]

@skydyr: Thanks for the input, I'll see if I can reduce instead of invade in next games. I always have a hard time choosing between them.

@shaddy: Thanks for the big review ! Indeed I seem to be playing AGAIN too close to stones. I think its because I do too much tsumego I'll try to play lighter where needed and further away from stones. Realy great review!

Cheers,
Otenki