#208 Amelia vs. Spine

Amelia
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#208 Amelia vs. Spine

Post by Amelia »

Spine and me are both 15k. We are playing this game to learn more about how we think about our games.
My personal goal: I will try to ask myself all the right questions, even if I get all the wrong answers!

Nigiri

:white: :white: :white:


Komi: 6,5
Scoring: Japanese

Spine, do you want open or closed book? I don't care either way.


Click Here To Show Diagram Code
[go]$$c Cap- B: 0 W: 0
$$ ---------------------------------------
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
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$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ ---------------------------------------[/go]
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Re: #208 Amelia vs. Spine

Post by Bonobo »

Amelia wrote:[..] We are playing this game to learn more about how we think about our games.
My personal goal: I will try to ask myself all the right questions, even if I get all the wrong answers!

[..]
I like this, scheun’n Dank!

Gruß aus Plattdeutschland, Tom
“The only difference between me and a madman is that I’m not mad.” — Salvador Dali
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Re: #208 Amelia vs. Spine

Post by Spine »

Awesome! I am nervously-excited to play this game.

I hope that all of L19x19 community can share a good laugh at my wild imagination when I attempt to predict what you are going to play next xD! This is going to be an excellent experience I think because it will force me to concentrate and play moves that have some thought behind it, instead of just plopping a stone down frivolously.

Open or closed book? It matters not to me. I usually wont have any material in front of me when I play so I'll likely be closed book. Though I am currently reading a book for beginners so *shrugs* up to you dearest.

For Nigiri I guess Odd.
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Re: #208 Amelia vs. Spine

Post by Amelia »

Let's play closed books then. You are black. Let's have fun :)
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Re: #208 Amelia vs. Spine

Post by Spine »

Click Here To Show Diagram Code
[go]$$c Cap- B: 0 W: 0
$$ ---------------------------------------
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . . , . . . . . , . . . . . 1 . . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
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$$ | . . . , . . . . . , . . . . . , . . . |
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$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . . , . . . . . , . . . . . , . . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ ---------------------------------------[/go]


Best of luck! Have a great game!

And away we go!

An opening thought:

I always feel I play better as black, maybe it's because I instantly feel I have the upper hand. When playing white even when playing my first move I already feel I have to respond to what my opponent has played. Let's see how the flow of this game goes.
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Re: #208 Amelia vs. Spine

Post by Amelia »

Click Here To Show Diagram Code
[go]$$c Cap- B: 0 W: 0
$$ ---------------------------------------
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . . 2 . . . . . , . . . . . 1 . . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
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$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . . , . . . . . , . . . . . , . . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ ---------------------------------------[/go]


I like the flexibility of the star point. This move also allows for a diagonal opening if he wishes to play so. I would like that.
I plan to play be a bit more territorial on move 4, with a stone at 3-4. But first I'll see what he does.
I want to try and keep my balance throughout the fuseki.
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Re: #208 Amelia vs. Spine

Post by Spine »

Click Here To Show Diagram Code
[go]$$c Cap- B: 0 W: 0
$$ ---------------------------------------
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . . 2 . . . . . , . . . . . 1 . . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . . , . . . . . , . . . . . , . . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . . , . . . . . , . . . . . , 3 . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ ---------------------------------------[/go]


I've been reading Jonathan Hop's So you wanna play go Vol 1 and now I'm on Vol 2.

I read a few pages every night before bed and more on weekends when I have time. I remember having just read about the Shimari. I usually play two 4-4 moves for my opening, but decided I wanted to try something a bit different. I just hope that my direction of play is appropriate. This is my thinking thus far.

Click Here To Show Diagram Code
[go]$$c Cap- B: 0 W: 0
$$ ---------------------------------------
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . . 2 . . . . . , . . . . . 1 . . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
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$$ | . . . , . . . . . , . . . . . , . . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . . 4 . . . . . , . . . . . , 3 . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . 5 . . . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ ---------------------------------------[/go]
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Re: #208 Amelia vs. Spine

Post by Amelia »

Click Here To Show Diagram Code
[go]$$c Cap- B: 0 W: 0
$$ ---------------------------------------
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . . 2 . . . . . , . . . . . 1 . . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . . , . . . . . , . . . . . , . . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . . 4 . . . . . , . . . . . , 3 . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ ---------------------------------------[/go]



I changed my mind about move 4. I'm guessing he wants something like this (he's probably read Opening Theory Made Easy too :-)).

Click Here To Show Diagram Code
[go]$$c Cap- B: 0 W: 0
$$ ---------------------------------------
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . . O . . . . . , . . . . . X . . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . . , . . . . . , . . . . . , X . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . O , . . . . . , . . . . . , X . . |
$$ | . . . . O . . . . . . . . . X . . . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ ---------------------------------------[/go]



I could let him do that and get some points of my own, but I want to get a bit in the way.
So I'm aiming at this.

Click Here To Show Diagram Code
[go]$$c Cap- B: 0 W: 0
$$ ---------------------------------------
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . . O . . . . . , . . . . . X . . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . . , . . . . . , . . . . . , 6 . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . . 4 . . . . . , . . . . . , X . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . 5 . . . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ ---------------------------------------[/go]


Next the following is possible:

Click Here To Show Diagram Code
[go]$$c Cap- B: 0 W: 0
$$ ---------------------------------------
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . . O . . . . . , . . . . . X . . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . 8 . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . . , . . . . . , . . . . . , 6 . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . 7 . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . . 4 . . . . . , . . . . . , X . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . 5 . . . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ ---------------------------------------[/go]


I'm happy with that, as I can extend and approach his upper corner at the same time.
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Re: #208 Amelia vs. Spine

Post by Spine »

Click Here To Show Diagram Code
[go]$$c Cap- B: 0 W: 0
$$ ---------------------------------------
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . . 2 . . . . . , . . . . . 1 . . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . . , . . . . . , . . . . . , . . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . . 4 . . . . . , . . . . . , 3 . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . 5 . . . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ ---------------------------------------[/go]


That may very well be the first time that I actually guessed my opponent's move and guessed correctly!

Mwahaha! :twisted:

(mechanical laughter ceases as I now ponder the next move...)
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Re: #208 Amelia vs. Spine

Post by Amelia »

Click Here To Show Diagram Code
[go]$$c Cap- B: 0 W: 0
$$ -----------------------------------------
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . . O . . . . . , . . . . . X . . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . . , . . . . . , . . . . . , 6 . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . . O . . . . . , . . . . . , X . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . 5 . . . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ -----------------------------------------[/go]


Edit: Somehow the diagram doesn't seem to be working. Don't know why :-?
( It's because you had extra leading spaces before each $$. You need to proofread the text is exactly as it appears in other, working diagrams. Fixed it for you. :) -- Ed. )

Here we go.
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Re: #208 Amelia vs. Spine

Post by tomukaze »

Click Here To Show Diagram Code
[go]$$c Cap- B: 0 W: 0
$$ ---------------------------------------
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . . 2 . . . . . , . . . . . 1 . . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . . , . . . . . , . . . . . , 6 . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . . 4 . . . . . , . . . . . , 3 . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . 5 . . . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ ---------------------------------------[/go]


Click Here To Show Diagram Code
[go]$$c Cap- B: 0 W: 0
$$ ---------------------------------------
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . . O . . . . . , . . . . . X . . . |
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Seems to work now :)
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Spine
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Re: #208 Amelia vs. Spine

Post by Spine »

Click Here To Show Diagram Code
[go]$$c Cap- B: 0 W: 0
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:w6: would have been where I would have played. Then again there is that adage 'your opponents good move is often your good move,' right? I suppose I can use that in reverse 'my good move can also be my opponents good move' there for I need to pay if first. Or something like that.

In any case I obviously had a few options here:
This crossed my mind but seemed like I was missing out on larger points first so I wanted to play else where.

Click Here To Show Diagram Code
[go]$$c Cap- B: 0 W: 0
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$$ ---------------------------------------[/go]



Click Here To Show Diagram Code
[go]$$c Cap- B: 0 W: 0
$$ ---------------------------------------
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Was probably my second choice. But I remember something about counting the spaces between the corner stones and play in between the largest space on the board. The stones on the left side and top are both 11 spaces apart while this move above would be between stones only 10 spaces apart.

So the two moves to choose from 7(the move I played) and 7a (a move on the left side @ 10-C) were what I was really debating between. Ultimately I choose to play on the top because I feel I can play in relation to the stone at :b1: .

But maybe it would have been better to split whites stones and play 7a?
Click Here To Show Diagram Code
[go]$$c Cap- B: 0 W: 0
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$$ ---------------------------------------[/go]


Or maybe its largely a preferential move and I'm over thinking it?


PS: Is there any way to write text to the right of a diagram?
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Re: #208 Amelia vs. Spine

Post by Amelia »

Click Here To Show Diagram Code
[go]$$c Cap- B: 0 W: 0
$$ ---------------------------------------
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
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$$ ---------------------------------------[/go]


I've considered other options (sanrensei, K3, R13 and R14). It's hard to say what's better but this one point is quite big for both black and white, and I settle my stone right away. I want to avoid my usual mistake of leaving weak groups all other the place.
Last edited by Amelia on Sun Feb 24, 2013 1:51 pm, edited 1 time in total.
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Re: #208 Amelia vs. Spine

Post by Loons »

Hmm, so somehow I see black 7 and similar a lot in actual games, but it seems like a mistake. Bottom right has two stones invested so if you build a moyo it should be there. For a similar idea my choice is 7 approach bottom left.

Sniped by Amelia: I like the two space, but the other direction should be better. It's sente and cramps black's top right moyo. Afterwards black doesn't have a sente approach to build bottom right anyway.
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Post by EdLee »

Loons wrote:Hmm, so somehow I see black 7 and similar a lot in actual games, but it seems like a mistake.
Bottom right has two stones invested... For a similar idea my choice is 7 approach bottom left.
It's no problem at all, certainly not at these levels (I think no problem even at ~1k levels.)
Reality check: in one search, the most popular pro move for :b7: was (a),
with 215 out of 50,744 games -- (e) was 5th (31 games); (h) came in 8th (9 games):
Click Here To Show Diagram Code
[go]$$
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$$ -----------------------------------------[/go]
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