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Offline EdLee
 Post subject:
Post #21 Posted: Tue Feb 26, 2013 2:21 pm 
Honinbo
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Spine wrote:
I didn't think that a game from two ~15Ks would gather any interest or discussion.
Spine, Amelia: we can almost always learn something from any game, whether it's ~30K or pro. :)

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Offline Spine
 Post subject: Re:
Post #22 Posted: Tue Feb 26, 2013 6:36 pm 
Dies in gote
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EdLee wrote:
Spine, Amelia: we can almost always learn something from any game, whether it's ~30K or pro. :)

Thanks Ed. You are the voice of experience xD


Click Here To Show Diagram Code
[go]$$c Cap- B: 0 W: 0
$$ ---------------------------------------
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . X . . . 1 . . . . . |
$$ | . . . O . . . . . , . . . . . X . . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . O . . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . X , . . . . . , . . . . . , O . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . O . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . . O . . . . . , . . . . . , X . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . X . . . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ ---------------------------------------[/go]


This move seemed prudent. Again I really wanted to play the extension from the lower right corner. But I felt I had to respond to move. Then again:

Click Here To Show Diagram Code
[go]$$c Cap- B: 0 W: 0
$$ ---------------------------------------
$$ | . . . . . . . . . y y y y y y y y y y |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . y y y y y y y y y y |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . X . . . 1 . y y y y |
$$ | . . . O . . . . . , . . . . . X y y y |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . O . . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . X , . . . . . , . . . . . , O . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . O . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . . O . . . . . , . . . . . , X x x |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . 1 . . . . X . x x x |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . x x x x x x x x x x |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . x x x x x x x x x x |
$$ ---------------------------------------[/go]

y= 27 possible points vrs. x= 25 possible points. So maybe this is the right move? Am I even looking at this properly?
Are both grps just to loose to count them like I'm doing?

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Offline Uberdude
 Post subject: Re: #208 Amelia vs. Spine
Post #23 Posted: Tue Feb 26, 2013 6:52 pm 
Judan

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@ Spine:
The top right corner is not your points yet, though it's certainly more black than white at the moment. Also the m17 area is not your points yet: if white plays m17, are you sure you can you kill it? (not that white m17 is a good move). It's hard to say how many points you have here, probably you will get at least one of the corner or the side area so I would just say it is 10+ points. The lower right corner is a 3-4 5-3 shimari so that is your points (unless you choose to give them to white in exchange for something else), if you play k3 that doesn't make all that side area your solid points, just your potential points. This is not to say your last move was bad, it was the right area of the board (I prefer o16 instead to make better 4th and 3rd line balance with k17) as it is important to stop your q16 stone getting approached on both sides. It is an example of urgent moves (help q16) before big moves (and it is also a big move!). It is good to think about which moves give you the most potential to make territory as that is, after all, how you win at the end, but it is a mistake to think of those marked areas as solid territory at this stage of the game.
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Offline Phelan
 Post subject: Re: #208 Amelia vs. Spine
Post #24 Posted: Tue Feb 26, 2013 10:51 pm 
Gosei
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@Uberdude:
Isn't the above post entering into interference with the game? I skimmed it, so might have gotten the wrong idea about it, but it seems to have advice that can be used still in the future game.

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Offline emeraldemon
 Post subject: Re: #208 Amelia vs. Spine
Post #25 Posted: Tue Feb 26, 2013 10:58 pm 
Gosei
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I like to follow the DDK games because I can usually figure out what's going on, unlike the 3d games.

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Offline Amelia
 Post subject: Re: #208 Amelia vs. Spine
Post #26 Posted: Wed Feb 27, 2013 12:59 am 
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Click Here To Show Diagram Code
[go]$$Bcm11 Cap- B: 0 W: 0
$$ ---------------------------------------
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . X . . . X . . . . . |
$$ | . . . O . . . . . , . . . . . X . . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . O . . . |
$$ | . . 2 . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . X , . . . . . , . . . . . , O . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . O . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . . O . . . . . , . . . . . , X . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . X . . . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ ---------------------------------------[/go]



If I'd been him, I'd have played that last move on the fourth line. Later, if I get the chance:


Click Here To Show Diagram Code
[go]$$Bcm11 Cap- B: 0 W: 0
$$ ---------------------------------------
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . X . . . X . . 3 . . |
$$ | . . . O . . . . . , . . . . . X 2 . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . 4 . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . O . . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . X , . . . . . , . . . . . , O . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . O . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . . O . . . . . , . . . . . , X . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . X . . . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ ---------------------------------------[/go]



But that's gote so I don't want to play that yet. His position looks safer tham mine but I think I can tenuki for now.

I wondered for a while which move to make:

Click Here To Show Diagram Code
[go]$$Bcm11 Cap- B: 0 W: 0
$$ ---------------------------------------
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . X . . . X . . . . . |
$$ | . . . O . . . . . , . . . . . X . . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . a . . . . . . . . . . . . O . . . |
$$ | . . b . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . X , . . . . . , . . . . . , O . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . O . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . . O . . . . . , . . . . . , X . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . X . . . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ ---------------------------------------[/go]


I decided that the three point extension was OK as all other black stones are far away at the moment. Also it puts more pressure on black. Later I will have to strenghten my positions though. It's hard to really decide what is too thin and what is too slow. But I guess I'll find out soon enough :-?
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Offline otenki
 Post subject: Re: #208 Amelia vs. Spine
Post #27 Posted: Wed Feb 27, 2013 1:12 am 
Lives in gote
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emeraldemon wrote:
I like to follow the DDK games because I can usually figure out what's going on, unlike the 3d games.


You can ?

I cannot understand either of them, both are too difficult.
I don't have the reading to understand the local situations in dan games. The larger scale strategy I can maybe understand.

In DDK games its the other way around, I can usualy understand the local situation but the larger scale strategy is usualy so wierd or complex that I'm out !

I'll just keep with very simple sdk games :scratch: :-)

Otenki
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Offline tj86430
 Post subject: Re: #208 Amelia vs. Spine
Post #28 Posted: Wed Feb 27, 2013 2:36 am 
Gosei

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otenki wrote:
In DDK games its the other way around, I can usualy understand the local situation but the larger scale strategy is usualy so wierd or complex that I'm out !

When I was DDK, there was no larger scale strategy in my games (I'm not sure if there is one even now)

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Offline Spine
 Post subject: Re: #208 Amelia vs. Spine
Post #29 Posted: Wed Feb 27, 2013 2:21 pm 
Dies in gote
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Kaya handle: Esquire
Click Here To Show Diagram Code
[go]$$Bcm11 Cap- B: 0 W: 0
$$ ---------------------------------------
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . X . . . X . . . . . |
$$ | . . . O . . . . . , . . . . . X . . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . O . . . |
$$ | . . 2 . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . X , . . . . . , . . . . . , O . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . 3 . . . . . . . . . . . . . O . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . . O . . . . . , . . . . . , X . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . X . . . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ ---------------------------------------[/go]


I wanted to make life with the stone on the left there. I know this is the move to do so. Perhaps I could have extended one more space.

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Offline Phelan
 Post subject: Re: #208 Amelia vs. Spine
Post #30 Posted: Wed Feb 27, 2013 7:12 pm 
Gosei
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For Spine, after the game:
Spine wrote:
Click Here To Show Diagram Code
[go]$$Bcm11 Cap- B: 0 W: 0
$$ ---------------------------------------
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . X . . . X . . . . . |
$$ | . . . O . . . . . , . . . . . X . . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . O . . . |
$$ | . . 2 . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . X , . . . . . , . . . . . , O . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . 3 . . . . . . . . . . . . . O . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . . O . . . . . , . . . . . , X . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . X . . . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ ---------------------------------------[/go]


I wanted to make life with the stone on the left there. I know this is the move to do so. Perhaps I could have extended one more space.


The normal 3 space extension is subject to attack here.
Click Here To Show Diagram Code
[go]$$Bcm11 The 3 space extension on the 3rd line can be attacked.
$$ ---------------------------------------
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . X . . . X . . . . . |
$$ | . . . O . . . . . , . . . . . X . . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . O . . . |
$$ | . . 2 . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . X , . . . . . , . . . . . , O . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . 4 . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . O . . |
$$ | . . 3 . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . . O . . . . . , . . . . . , X . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . X . . . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ ---------------------------------------[/go]


If you extend to the 4th line, however, I think it can work. Not sure if it's better than just extending two spaces and being done with it, though.
Click Here To Show Diagram Code
[go]$$Bcm11 The 3 space extension on the 4rd line is more resilient
$$ ---------------------------------------
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . X . . . X . . . . . |
$$ | . . . O . . . . . , . . . . . X . . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . O . . . |
$$ | . . 2 . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . X , . . . . . , . . . . . , O . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . 4 5 . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . O . . |
$$ | . . . 3 . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . . O . . . . . , . . . . . , X . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . X . . . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ ---------------------------------------[/go]

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Good Go = Shape.
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Offline Dusk Eagle
 Post subject: Re: #208 Amelia vs. Spine
Post #31 Posted: Wed Feb 27, 2013 10:35 pm 
Gosei
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Extending three spaces is perfectly viable and is something you can see quite often in the orthodox fuseki:

Click Here To Show Diagram Code
[go]$$Wcm1 One of many possible sequences
$$ ---------------------------------------
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . . O . . . . . , . . . 6 . X . . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . 8 . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . 5 . 3 9 . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . 4 . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . 7 . . . |
$$ | . . . , . . . . . , . . . . . , 1 . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . 2 . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . . O . . . . . , . . . . . , X . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . X . . . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ ---------------------------------------[/go]

By my understanding, :w1: and :b2: are no longer the most popular moves from their respective positions, but a few years ago you would see quite often and both moves are still good ways to play. Also, note that :b2: is one space closer to :w1: than the corresponding white stone is to black's wedge in this Malkovich game, so that only makes the three-space extension even more viable.

This isn't a criticism of the two-space extension played in the actual game, just a comment that I think the three space extension is good as well.

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Offline Amelia
 Post subject: Re: #208 Amelia vs. Spine
Post #32 Posted: Thu Feb 28, 2013 1:07 am 
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Click Here To Show Diagram Code
[go]$$Bcm11 Cap- B: 0 W: 0
$$ ---------------------------------------
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . X . . . X . . . . . |
$$ | . . . O . . . . . , . . . . . X . . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . O . . . |
$$ | . . O . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . X , . . . . . , . . . . . , O . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . 3 . . . . . . . . . . . . . O . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . . O . . . . . , . . . . . , X . . |
$$ | . . . . . . 4 . . . . . . . X . . . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ ---------------------------------------[/go]



As previously said a double approach on that stone would just be too painful for me. Now it has a bit of support :-)
I expect him to answer by extending from his shimari.
Then I'm going back to the upper right corner. I expect to lose sente there and he'll probably take the last big point on the board and play an approach move on the upper left corner.
I think that leaves us about even.
Everything has been very peaceful up to now. I'm looking forward to the middle game.
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Offline Spine
 Post subject: Re: #208 Amelia vs. Spine
Post #33 Posted: Thu Feb 28, 2013 4:54 am 
Dies in gote
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Click Here To Show Diagram Code
[go]$$Bcm11 Cap- B: 0 W: 0
$$ ---------------------------------------
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . X . . . X . . . . . |
$$ | . . . O . . . . . , . . . . . X . . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . O . . . |
$$ | . . O . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . X , . . . . . , . . . . . , O . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . 3 . . . . . . . . . . . . . O . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . . O . . . . . , . . . . . , X . . |
$$ | . . . . . . 4 . . . 5 . . . X . . . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ ---------------------------------------[/go]


:shock: Finally! lol. Would this technically be considered the tail end of the opening?

My guess is that white's next play will be at G17.

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Offline Uberdude
 Post subject: Re: #208 Amelia vs. Spine
Post #34 Posted: Thu Feb 28, 2013 5:07 am 
Judan

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@DuskEagle/Phelan

In fact these days the two space extension is generally considered a bit slack with regards to territory and followups on the corner, so three space is normal. This is particularly the case with the tight checking extension above as then if white kosumis in the corner black's two space extension is cramped.

P.S. And I've never seen that high approach before

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Offline Dusk Eagle
 Post subject: Re: #208 Amelia vs. Spine
Post #35 Posted: Thu Feb 28, 2013 6:14 am 
Gosei
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Uberdude wrote:
@DuskEagle/Phelan

In fact these days the two space extension is generally considered a bit slack with regards to territory and followups on the corner, so three space is normal. This is particularly the case with the tight checking extension above as then if white kosumis in the corner black's two space extension is cramped.

P.S. And I've never seen that high approach before


The amount that a two-space extension is slack here probably doesn't matter all that much in a 15k game. I know I couldn't have handled someone splitting my three-space extension when I was 15k, so from that context the two-space extension makes sense.

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Offline Uberdude
 Post subject: Re: #208 Amelia vs. Spine
Post #36 Posted: Thu Feb 28, 2013 10:48 am 
Judan

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Dusk Eagle wrote:
The amount that a two-space extension is slack here probably doesn't matter all that much in a 15k game. I know I couldn't have handled someone splitting my three-space extension when I was 15k, so from that context the two-space extension makes sense.


Indeed, it's a good simple move. I don't think the slackness really matters until mid- to high-dan level.

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Offline Amelia
 Post subject: Re: #208 Amelia vs. Spine
Post #37 Posted: Thu Feb 28, 2013 12:07 pm 
Lives with ko

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KGS: Soji
DGS: Soji
Online playing schedule: KGS usually Friday 20:00-23:00
Click Here To Show Diagram Code
[go]$$Bcm11 Cap- B: 0 W: 0
$$ ---------------------------------------
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . X . . . X . . . . . |
$$ | . . . O . . . . . , . . . . . X 6 . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . O . . . |
$$ | . . O . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . X , . . . . . , . . . . . , O . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . X . . . . . . . . . . . . . O . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . . O . . . . . , . . . . . , X . . |
$$ | . . . . . . 4 . . . 5 . . . X . . . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ ---------------------------------------[/go]
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Offline Spine
 Post subject: Re: #208 Amelia vs. Spine
Post #38 Posted: Thu Feb 28, 2013 12:37 pm 
Dies in gote
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Click Here To Show Diagram Code
[go]$$Bcm11 Cap- B: 0 W: 0
$$ ---------------------------------------
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . X . . . X . . 7 . . |
$$ | . . . O . . . . . , . . . . . X 6 . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . O . . . |
$$ | . . O . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . X , . . . . . , . . . . . , O . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . X . . . . . . . . . . . . . O . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . . O . . . . . , . . . . . , X . . |
$$ | . . . . . . 4 . . . 5 . . . X . . . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ ---------------------------------------[/go]


I feel she could have extended one more space to the 3-3 point. I assume this is correct.

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Offline Amelia
 Post subject: Re: #208 Amelia vs. Spine
Post #39 Posted: Thu Feb 28, 2013 1:45 pm 
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Posts: 238
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KGS: Soji
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Online playing schedule: KGS usually Friday 20:00-23:00
Click Here To Show Diagram Code
[go]$$Bcm11 Cap- B: 0 W: 0
$$ ---------------------------------------
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . X . . . X . . 7 . . |
$$ | . . . O . . . . . , . . . . . X 6 . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . 8 . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . O . . . |
$$ | . . O . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . X , . . . . . , . . . . . , O . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . X . . . . . . . . . . . . . O . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . . O . . . . . , . . . . . , X . . |
$$ | . . . . . . 4 . . . 5 . . . X . . . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ ---------------------------------------[/go]


Earlier I missed the following:

Click Here To Show Diagram Code
[go]$$Bcm11 Cap- B: 0 W: 0
$$ ---------------------------------------
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . X . . . X . . 7 9 . |
$$ | . . . O . . . . . , . . . . . X 6 . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . 8 . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . O . . . |
$$ | . . O . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . X , . . . . . , . . . . . , O . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . X . . . . . . . . . . . . . O . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . . O . . . . . , . . . . . , X . . |
$$ | . . . . . . 4 . . . 5 . . . X . . . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ ---------------------------------------[/go]


This would defend black's corner, and leave me with an open skirt. And any defending move on my part looks small and inefficient (and gote). I wonder if Spine will play it. The hane is not half as good because then I can defend in sente.

Or will he go for this?

Click Here To Show Diagram Code
[go]$$Bcm11 Cap- B: 0 W: 0
$$ ---------------------------------------
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . X . . . X . . 7 . . |
$$ | . . . O . 9 . . . , . . . . . X 6 . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . 8 . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . O . . . |
$$ | . . O . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . X , . . . . . , . . . . . , O . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . X . . . . . . . . . . . . . O . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . . O . . . . . , . . . . . , X . . |
$$ | . . . . . . 4 . . . 5 . . . X . . . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ ---------------------------------------[/go]


Or this:


Click Here To Show Diagram Code
[go]$$Bcm11 Cap- B: 0 W: 0
$$ ---------------------------------------
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . X . . . X . . 7 . . |
$$ | . . . O . . . . . , . . . . . X 6 . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . 8 . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . O . . . |
$$ | . . O . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . X , . . . . . , . . . . . , O . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . X . . . . . . . . . . . . . O . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . . O . . . . . , . . . . . , X . . |
$$ | . . 9 . . . 4 . . . 5 . . . X . . . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ ---------------------------------------[/go]


I haven't made up my mind about my next objectives. I'll wait and see what he does first.
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Offline Spine
 Post subject: Re: #208 Amelia vs. Spine
Post #40 Posted: Thu Feb 28, 2013 2:58 pm 
Dies in gote
User avatar

Posts: 40
Liked others: 0
Was liked: 5
Rank: 15k
KGS: Esquire
Kaya handle: Esquire
Click Here To Show Diagram Code
[go]$$Bcm11 Cap- B: 0 W: 0
$$ ---------------------------------------
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . . . . 9 . . . X . . . X . . 7 . . |
$$ | . . . O . . . . . , . . . . . X 6 . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . 8 . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . O . . . |
$$ | . . O . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . X , . . . . . , . . . . . , O . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . X . . . . . . . . . . . . . O . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . . O . . . . . , . . . . . , X . . |
$$ | . . . . . . 4 . . . 5 . . . X . . . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ ---------------------------------------[/go]


Click Here To Show Diagram Code
[go]$$Bcm11 Cap- B: 0 W: 0
$$ ---------------------------------------
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . X . . . X . x 7 . . |
$$ | . . . O . . . . . , . . . . . X 6 . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . 8 . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . O . . . |
$$ | . . O . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . X , . . . . . , . . . . . , O . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . X . . . . . . . . . . . . . O . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . . O . . . . . , . . . . . , X . . |
$$ | . . . . . . 4 . . . 5 . . . X . . . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ ---------------------------------------[/go]


I tried to read it out. I don't think the cutting point at x will hurt me yet. Although maybe my extension from the stone under the star point is a bit far. I thought I f she did try to cut maybe I would make life at the 3-3 point.

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