Back on track

Create a study plan, track your progress and hold yourself accountable.
schawipp
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Re: Back on track

Post by schawipp »

Amelia wrote:


I'm not good in deep reviewing, however in this game I see certain move categories, which easily would promote you >= 3 Stones in rank, if you avoid them :)

a) Caring about single stones
- On move 40 you capture a ko, while your surrounding stones are not really in danger. Try to see the difference if you played at the position of White-41 instead
- Same thing for move 52. Here, the W stones are more or less dead anyway. You could encircle them on a larger scale (e. g. by playing around tengen) or do something different e. g. C2
- Move 60 saves a single stone and maybe worth 2 points. Try to find out, if there are any bigger and/or more urgent points on the board.

b) Letting the opponent enter your moyo / almost secured territory
- On move 85 W finds time to play C2. This may look small but the difference, if you've played there before (remember move 60? ;-) ) easily approaches 10 points. After move 85 you still didn't block but let white further in during moves 111-113. Except for the points lost there, the group looks somewhat weak after move 113 (and got finally killed, later in the game).
- The same thing happened in move 120-122; move 120 costs you about 12 points with no need (taken aside the fact, that GnuGO blundered later on by not protecting the cut at S15... :scratch: )

Thus, every time you are trying to capture or save one or two single stones (unless they are of special importance, e. g. cutting stones) ask yourself if there is nothing else more urgent (I'm now able to letting go off up to four stones easily, with more than five stones I still have problems :mrgreen: ).

Further, in some cases it is really important to block or protect your existing structures from being entered, even if this looks slow. Think of the proverb "Urgent moves before big moves"...
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Re:

Post by Shaddy »

EdLee wrote:
Amelia wrote:I did consider Q18 but dismissed it quickly because of W Q17. I will take some time to look into it more.
Then B atari P17 and hurts the :wc: stone, which makes :wt: a bad wedge.
Your first instinct of :wt: wedge means you don't have a feeling it's a bad wedge,
and you don't have a feeling about :wc: getting damaged -- develop these feelings.
Also, if :w7: at R18 works, then everybody would play it, instead of the joseki keima at Q18.
Click Here To Show Diagram Code
[go]$$Wc
$$-------------------
$$. . . . . . . . . |
$$. . . . X X 7 . . |
$$. . . W X Q O . . |
$$. . . . . X . . . |
$$. . . . . . . . . |
$$. . . . . . X . . |
$$. . . . . . . . . |[/go]
B also has the option to connect on the outside with :b1::
Click Here To Show Diagram Code
[go]$$Bc
$$-------------------
$$. . . . . 4 . . . |
$$. . . 3 2 X O . . |
$$. . 5 W X Q O . . |
$$. . . . 1 X . . . |
$$. . . . . . . . . |
$$. . . . . . X . . |
$$. . . . . . . . . |[/go]


The first diagram is not playable for black. W's p16 cut is good.
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Re: Back on track

Post by Amelia »

schawipp wrote:a) Caring about single stones

Yeah, that seems to be a problem of mine lately. The problem is not so much that I care so much, but that I fail to sit back and look at the whole board.

b) Letting the opponent enter your moyo / almost secured territory

Yeah especially in the corner it is often much more painful than it looks. I need to develop a feeling for this, as EdLee would say.

(taken aside the fact, that GnuGO blundered later on by not protecting the cut at S15... :scratch: )

The frightening thing with GnuGo is, it never stops counting. It will keep playing whatever it things is bigger in points at any point in time. Sometimes it looks nonsensical, but it certainly does a good job of crushing me.

Think of the proverb "Urgent moves before big moves"...

The trick is, you've got to see what's urgent and what's not :mrgreen: But I play and learn.

The first diagram is not playable for black. W's p16 cut is good.

The second diagram definitely looks safer to me anyway.
But I see now I could have done a lot more damage to white's position. Thank you all for the explanations :-)
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Re: Back on track

Post by Amelia »

I completed vol 2 of GGPB and am now starting vol 3. I solved that book once already, I had just about finished it when I stopped playing a year ago. I remember being very startled at first by the middle game problems. This time it feels easy and I solve the problems in under 1 mn. I seem to remember the shapes and tactics. I'm happy about that :-)
I plan to track how many problems I get wrong and how many right, like SoDesuNe does. It feels like a useful idea to study a book another time until the positions have sinked in. Especially as GGPB deals with lots of basic and important shapes. My first time studying go, when I finished a volume I would just rush over to the next, as I believed working on harder problems would make me stronger, but I now believe it was a mistake. I have seen advice to work more often and quickly on easier problems and I think it benefits me more than to get a headache on problems I can't solve.

I also read Tesuji in parallel, slowly, one tesuji a week. I had just about started that book when I stopped playing. It felt horribly difficult. Here again, it is easier this time around, and I understand the shapes much faster. The problems are still difficult, because I have a hard time to read up to five moves, and more is close to impossible. Many of the sequences have at least five moves so this is a lot for me.

Playing doesn't happen often right now because of the difficulty to get 1/2 hour of uninterrupted quiet. With my malkovich game, I still manage to make a move in-between, though. And I play the occasional game with GnuGo. I forced the damn thing to resign at four stones while playing quickly, killing two of its groups. I feel like my instinct and focus have improved and I'm satisfied that I'm back at the level I was when I quit playing. Perhaps even a little further.

Hey! I need a new goal. Let's make SDK :-)
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Re: Back on track

Post by Amelia »

This is a game I just played. Playing white in handicap game is still hard. Somehow I didn't do too bad in that game, though in the end a couple of pretty bad tactical mistakes cost me the game.
But it's hard to know if my advantage was skill on my part or mistakes on my opponent's part, or his lack of knowledge of how to take advantage of my overplays.



Aside from that, I'm now studying 1001 life and death problems and GGPB 3. At the moment I have about 80% solving rate in both books. I marked some problems that puzzle me even after looking at the answer, I'll study them separately and might post them here if I can't answer my own questions.
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Re: Back on track

Post by Amelia »

For now I'm sticking to my study plan

Solving problems:
- (nearly) every day about 30mn. (That's easy, I just do it in the bus)

Playing:
- I go to my go group every Thursday evening (about 2-4 slow games + review and discussions with stronger players)
- I play games online whenever I have time, with little to no handicap and 25mn time (about 2 a week)
- I review my online games and depending on how much insight I have on my own play, post in the game analysis section
I can't play much more than that without putting too much of a toll on work and family life, so I'm trying to make the most of it.

I feel I'm improving. People I used to lose to at the go group have to give me less handicap now. From my reviewed games, I also have a definite feeling about my next area of improvement (I need to look at the whole board more, play more calmly, generally not get distracted from the rest of the board by a local fight). If I focus on this in my games and keep myself together, soon I will be playing some of them evenly :-)

I'll be on vacation the next two weeks and won't be able to play in that time. I'll try and keep my go problems routine at least, and pack Tesuji and Attack and Defence for casual reading when I get the chance.
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Re: Back on track

Post by Amelia »

Right back from vacation. I did manage a little study time here and there (But not much because you can't afford to be sleep deprived when touring with a lively 2 years old).
I hit a wall at the third level of the GGPB 3 problems. I droped down at barely one third of the problems solved correctly. It seemed pointless and a bit depressing to keep trying, so I went back at the beginning of the book.

I marked each problem I solved:
- Right
- Wrong
- Puzzling (Even after looking at the solution it was not obvious that the solution worked or that other sequences didn't).

I tried solving again the wrong ones and I studied thoroughly the puzzling ones. It seems I did make some progress since I first started the book, and I think my occasional reading of Tesuji helped a great deal in looking for the right moves.
I also discovered that ko problems are nearly always in the "puzzling" category. I simply don't get it... I don't see the potential for a ko nor the sequences leading to it, not even when the book hints "Black to play and make a ko (3 moves)". I had a look at the ko chapter in Tesuji, but I feel my problem is more at ground level than what the book talks about. My brain doesn't categorize ko as a potential solution for living/killing. I have a bit the same problem with seki.

This week I will be preparing for the Kido Cup next weekend. I'm dropping vol 3 of GGPB and going back to vol 2 and 1. I want to solve lots of easy problems quickly.
I'll try to record the tournament games on my tablet. I'm a bit afraid that it might be distracting, but it would be great if I could review the games afterwards, so I'll take the risk.

The only problem now is to decide with which rank I should sign in. I still have no really stable rank.
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Re: Back on track

Post by vpopovic »

I have the same problem with ko. Just recently I barely started thinking about ko as a last chance for my dying groups.
I suppose it requires a bit of a practice.
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Re: Back on track

Post by Boidhre »

Amelia wrote:I also discovered that ko problems are nearly always in the "puzzling" category. I simply don't get it... I don't see the potential for a ko nor the sequences leading to it, not even when the book hints "Black to play and make a ko (3 moves)". I had a look at the ko chapter in Tesuji, but I feel my problem is more at ground level than what the book talks about. My brain doesn't categorize ko as a potential solution for living/killing. I have a bit the same problem with seki.


This is fairly normal from my own experience and those of people I've talked to. Ko and seki can be far harder to spot than a killing or living sequence for ddk/weak sdk players. Being able to spot kos quickly is a good sign from what I hear (hasn't happened to me yet ;)).
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Re: Back on track

Post by skydyr »

Boidhre wrote:
Amelia wrote:I also discovered that ko problems are nearly always in the "puzzling" category. I simply don't get it... I don't see the potential for a ko nor the sequences leading to it, not even when the book hints "Black to play and make a ko (3 moves)". I had a look at the ko chapter in Tesuji, but I feel my problem is more at ground level than what the book talks about. My brain doesn't categorize ko as a potential solution for living/killing. I have a bit the same problem with seki.


This is fairly normal from my own experience and those of people I've talked to. Ko and seki can be far harder to spot than a killing or living sequence for ddk/weak sdk players. Being able to spot kos quickly is a good sign from what I hear (hasn't happened to me yet ;)).


My impression is that as you get stronger, the target moves from spot kos to spot and evaluate kos and all threats, as well as the weight of the ko for each side (from a picnic ko to game-breakingly painful to lose). I'm not there yet.
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Re: Back on track

Post by TIM82 »

skydyr wrote:
Boidhre wrote:
Amelia wrote:I also discovered that ko problems are nearly always in the "puzzling" category. I simply don't get it... I don't see the potential for a ko nor the sequences leading to it, not even when the book hints "Black to play and make a ko (3 moves)". I had a look at the ko chapter in Tesuji, but I feel my problem is more at ground level than what the book talks about. My brain doesn't categorize ko as a potential solution for living/killing. I have a bit the same problem with seki.


This is fairly normal from my own experience and those of people I've talked to. Ko and seki can be far harder to spot than a killing or living sequence for ddk/weak sdk players. Being able to spot kos quickly is a good sign from what I hear (hasn't happened to me yet ;)).


My impression is that as you get stronger, the target moves from spot kos to spot and evaluate kos and all threats, as well as the weight of the ko for each side (from a picnic ko to game-breakingly painful to lose). I'm not there yet.


I still have problems at recognizing ko's too (a few moves in advance that is), unless the general shape is familiar to me. It feels like there has been some tangible progress lately though - since about 2k.

From personal experience I feel like about 3dan opponents and better tend to be able to generate ko from atypical corner/side situations confidently (meaning playing multiple moves which would lose points if no ko in the end). 1k-1d and lower than that: ko situations arise from familiar situations, accidentally, out of desperation or do not require that many potentially points-losing plays.
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Re: Back on track

Post by Amelia »

My impression is that as you get stronger, the target moves from spot kos to spot and evaluate kos and all threats, as well as the weight of the ko for each side (from a picnic ko to game-breakingly painful to lose). I'm not there yet.

Yes (that's actually what the ko chapter in Tesuji talks about, but as I said, a number of steps too far for me). And that's even worse than that. In the first chapter of Tesuji, when Davies explains about reading, he ends up with one sequence among 20 different ones that entails the strongest moves for both sides, only to say "but black shouldn't play it out because that's a potential ko threat". So you don't just evaluate ko threats, you actually lay them down on the board for later.

Now that is frankly too much careful planning for me. Ah, well, I guess it's not top priority. I have more important things to work on for now ^^°
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Re: Back on track

Post by daal »

Amelia wrote:
My impression is that as you get stronger, the target moves from spot kos to spot and evaluate kos and all threats, as well as the weight of the ko for each side (from a picnic ko to game-breakingly painful to lose). I'm not there yet.

Yes (that's actually what the ko chapter in Tesuji talks about, but as I said, a number of steps too far for me). And that's even worse than that. In the first chapter of Tesuji, when Davies explains about reading, he ends up with one sequence among 20 different ones that entails the strongest moves for both sides, only to say "but black shouldn't play it out because that's a potential ko threat". So you don't just evaluate ko threats, you actually lay them down on the board for later.

Now that is frankly too much careful planning for me. Ah, well, I guess it's not top priority. I have more important things to work on for now ^^°


Indeed, those 20 moves down the line scenarios are a bit impractical, but it's a fairly important step to recognize that some one and two point sente moves, those that your opponent will automatically answer, can be much more valuable when left unplayed and saved as ko threats. Often not playing such moves has a further advantage of not having robbed your own stones of a liberty.

That said, it's great to hear that so many other players have difficulty spotting potential kos. I wonder why that is. Is it because people tend not to look for ko as a solution, or is it because they are like transformers, always changing their shape and their powers?
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Re: Back on track

Post by Boidhre »

daal wrote:
Amelia wrote:
My impression is that as you get stronger, the target moves from spot kos to spot and evaluate kos and all threats, as well as the weight of the ko for each side (from a picnic ko to game-breakingly painful to lose). I'm not there yet.

Yes (that's actually what the ko chapter in Tesuji talks about, but as I said, a number of steps too far for me). And that's even worse than that. In the first chapter of Tesuji, when Davies explains about reading, he ends up with one sequence among 20 different ones that entails the strongest moves for both sides, only to say "but black shouldn't play it out because that's a potential ko threat". So you don't just evaluate ko threats, you actually lay them down on the board for later.

Now that is frankly too much careful planning for me. Ah, well, I guess it's not top priority. I have more important things to work on for now ^^°


Indeed, those 20 moves down the line scenarios are a bit impractical, but it's a fairly important step to recognize that some one and two point sente moves, those that your opponent will automatically answer, can be much more valuable when left unplayed and saved as ko threats. Often not playing such moves has a further advantage of not having robbed your own stones of a liberty.

That said, it's great to hear that so many other players have difficulty spotting potential kos. I wonder why that is. Is it because people tend not to look for ko as a solution, or is it because they are like transformers, always changing their shape and their powers?


So I came across a problem a few days ago and I thought it was interesting and some of the people on this thread may enjoy it. I'll hide the answers as solving the problem might be interesting for people:

Click Here To Show Diagram Code
[go]$$W White to Play
$$ ------------------
$$ | . . X O . . . . .
$$ | . . X O . . . . .
$$ | . X X O . . . . .
$$ | . . X O . . . . .
$$ | X X O . . . . . .
$$ | O O O . . . . . .
$$ | . . . . . . . . .
$$ | . . . . . . . . .
$$ | . . . . . . . . .[/go]


So:

First thought is :w1: but :b2: refutes it:

Click Here To Show Diagram Code
[go]$$W White to Play
$$ ------------------
$$ | . . X O . . . . .
$$ | 2 . X O . . . . .
$$ | 1 X X O . . . . .
$$ | . . X O . . . . .
$$ | X X O . . . . . .
$$ | O O O . . . . . .
$$ | . . . . . . . . .
$$ | . . . . . . . . .
$$ | . . . . . . . . .[/go]


The next obvious move is :w1: here and White has two reasonable answers.

Click Here To Show Diagram Code
[go]$$W White to Play
$$ ------------------
$$ | . . X O . . . . .
$$ | 1 b X O . . . . .
$$ | a X X O . . . . .
$$ | . . X O . . . . .
$$ | X X O . . . . . .
$$ | O O O . . . . . .
$$ | . . . . . . . . .
$$ | . . . . . . . . .
$$ | . . . . . . . . .[/go]


One leads to a ko or seki, Whites privilege, one leads to a seki. It doesn't take much reading to see which is which but it's interesting I think, I missed the ko on my first read through and thought there were two valid answers partially I think because I expected to find a seki there. I'm not posting full answers because of copyright etc but this is a pretty straightforward problem from here.
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Re: Back on track

Post by Amelia »

Well...
Maybe I'm blind and/or tired but I can't for the life of me see what white can do after black plays 2. Black can get two eyes and secure life at eihter a or b and I don't see a white move that would prevent him playing one of those. What am I missing?

Click Here To Show Diagram Code
[go]$$W White to Play
$$ ------------------
$$ | . . X O . . . . .
$$ | 1 . X O . . . . .
$$ | 2 X X O . . . . .
$$ | a b X O . . . . .
$$ | X X O . . . . . .
$$ | O O O . . . . . .
$$ | . . . . . . . . .
$$ | . . . . . . . . .
$$ | . . . . . . . . .[/go]
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