#216 Quietimes vs BGrieco

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bgrieco
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Re: #216 Quietimes vs BGrieco

Post by bgrieco »

Click Here To Show Diagram Code
[go]$$c #216 Quietimes (KGS 16k)vs BGrieco (IGS 16k)
$$ ---------------------------------------
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . 8 . . . . |
$$ | . . . 2 . . . . . , . . . . . , 5 . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
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$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . . , . . . . . , . . . . . 7 . . . |
$$ | . . 6 . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . . , . . . . . , . . . . . , X . . |
$$ | . . . 4 . . . . . . . . . . 3 . . . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ ---------------------------------------[/go]


Ok, part 1 of plan : Chinese Opening SET. Now what ???
yes, guys, I'm 16k, as that girl from Avatar would say : Just a baby....
His right side is very strong now, much stronger than my left.

:w8: is supposed to :
1) watch his answer to an attack, I believe he will pincer with N17. But I want to reduce his right side. so I'll try to do something at P15 later on..
If he closes himself instead, I'll extend on the top side.

He seems very cautious. He also seems to know what he is doing better than I thought. He looks better than the 16k KGSs I've encountered.
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quietimes
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Re: #216 Quietimes vs BGrieco

Post by quietimes »

Click Here To Show Diagram Code
[go]$$c #216 Quietimes (KGS 16k)vs BGrieco (IGS 16k)
$$ ---------------------------------------
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . 8 . . . . |
$$ | . . . 2 . . . . . , . . . . . , 5 . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . 9 . . . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . . , . . . . . , . . . . . 7 . . . |
$$ | . . 6 . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . . , . . . . . , . . . . . , X . . |
$$ | . . . 4 . . . . . . . . . . 3 . . . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ ---------------------------------------[/go]


Why can't we be civil? So plan here is to split the corner and then go do something mean and spiteful in the NW corner. :rambo:
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bgrieco
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Re: #216 Quietimes vs BGrieco

Post by bgrieco »

Click Here To Show Diagram Code
[go]$$Bcm9 #216 Quietimes (KGS 16k)vs BGrieco (IGS 16k)
$$ ---------------------------------------
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . O . . . . |
$$ | . . . O . . . . . , . . . . 2 , X . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . 1 . . . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . . , . . . . . , . . . . . X . . . |
$$ | . . O . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . . , . . . . . , . . . . . , X . . |
$$ | . . . O . . . . . . . . . . X . . . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ ---------------------------------------[/go]


Interesting reply, I'll make myself stronger before attacking more.
Gosh, I believe that was stupid of my part.
What the heck do I have in mind.
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skydyr
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Re: #216 Quietimes vs BGrieco

Post by skydyr »

bgrieco wrote:Ok, part 1 of plan : Chinese Opening SET. Now what ???
yes, guys, I'm 16k, as that girl from Avatar would say : Just a baby....
His right side is very strong now, much stronger than my left.

:w8: is supposed to :
1) watch his answer to an attack, I believe he will pincer with N17. But I want to reduce his right side. so I'll try to do something at P15 later on..
If he closes himself instead, I'll extend on the top side.

He seems very cautious. He also seems to know what he is doing better than I thought. He looks better than the 16k KGSs I've encountered.


So, referring back to the comment by Phoenix, I think the issue here is that white has played the chinese opening because it is the chinese opening, and not because white has a plan to use it. If it has a name, it must be good, right?

More seriously, I'd advise beginners that if you want to play a named opening or something that's fine, but you need to have an idea of what you want to do with it. This can be very simple like 'I want to make a big moyo' or 'I want to invite black to approach here and then fight' or even 'I want to play flexibly and see what my opponent does'. Openings like the chinese opening have a lot of theory and history behind them in terms of what is good as a follow up and what isn't, and what each sides strategy should be. You don't need that to try the position, but you do need A strategy.

That said, I think bgreico's move is pretty good. It prevents a shimari, and is coming from the right direction to create a moyo if black doesn't pincer, and to keep black's right side in check if black does.
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quietimes
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Re: #216 Quietimes vs BGrieco

Post by quietimes »

Click Here To Show Diagram Code
[go]$$Bcm9 #216 Quietimes (KGS 16k)vs BGrieco (IGS 16k)
$$ ---------------------------------------
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . O . . . . |
$$ | . . . O . . . . . , . . . . 2 3 X . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . 1 . . . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . . , . . . . . , . . . . . X . . . |
$$ | . . O . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . . , . . . . . , . . . . . , X . . |
$$ | . . . O . . . . . . . . . . X . . . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ ---------------------------------------[/go]


Not a direction I would choose this game to go so early. Oh well. So with this little weak move of mine, I would assume he is going to hane 9 and try to encroach/reduce my left side. I hope to extend @ 9 if this is the case and then peek at O16. Ulitmately sacrificing a lot to end this corner and tenuki out, likley at K4
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bgrieco
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Re: #216 Quietimes vs BGrieco

Post by bgrieco »

Click Here To Show Diagram Code
[go]$$Bcm11 #216 Quietimes (KGS 16k)vs BGrieco (IGS 16k)
$$ ---------------------------------------
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . O . . . . |
$$ | . . . O . . . . . , . . . . O 1 X . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . 2 X . . . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . . , . . . . . , . . . . . X . . . |
$$ | . . O . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . . , . . . . . , . . . . . , X . . |
$$ | . . . O . . . . . . . . . . X . . . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ ---------------------------------------[/go]
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quietimes
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Re: #216 Quietimes vs BGrieco

Post by quietimes »

Click Here To Show Diagram Code
[go]$$Bcm11 #216 Quietimes (KGS 16k)vs BGrieco (IGS 16k)
$$ ---------------------------------------
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . O . . . . |
$$ | . . . O . . . . . , . . . . O 1 X . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . 2 X . . . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . 3 . . . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . . , . . . . . , . . . . . X . . . |
$$ | . . O . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . . , . . . . . , . . . . . , X . . |
$$ | . . . O . . . . . . . . . . X . . . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ ---------------------------------------[/go]


So as expected. Plan on him extending. I peek. He solidifies (bad for me, I know) however this way I hope to make a base upper middle board.
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bgrieco
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Re: #216 Quietimes vs BGrieco

Post by bgrieco »

Click Here To Show Diagram Code
[go]$$Bcm11 #216 Quietimes (KGS 16k)vs BGrieco (IGS 16k)
$$ ---------------------------------------
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . O . . . . |
$$ | . . . O . . . . . , . . . . O 1 X . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . 2 X . . . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . 4 3 . . . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . . , . . . . . , . . . . . X . . . |
$$ | . . O . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . . , . . . . . , . . . . . , X . . |
$$ | . . . O . . . . . . . . . . X . . . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ ---------------------------------------[/go]
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quietimes
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Re: #216 Quietimes vs BGrieco

Post by quietimes »

Click Here To Show Diagram Code
[go]$$Bcm11 #216 Quietimes (KGS 16k)vs BGrieco (IGS 16k)
$$ ---------------------------------------
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . O . . . . |
$$ | . . . O . . . . . , . . 5 . O 1 X . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . 2 X . . . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . 4 3 . . . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . . , . . . . . , . . . . . X . . . |
$$ | . . O . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . . , . . . . . , . . . . . , X . . |
$$ | . . . O . . . . . . . . . . X . . . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ ---------------------------------------[/go]


i feel like I should jump down to the middle bottom, that this corner can wait. Live and learn.
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bgrieco
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Re: #216 Quietimes vs BGrieco

Post by bgrieco »

Click Here To Show Diagram Code
[go]$$Bcm11 #216 Quietimes (KGS 16k)vs BGrieco (IGS 16k)
$$ ---------------------------------------
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . 6 . O . . . . |
$$ | . . . O . . . . . , . . 5 . O 1 X . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . 2 X . . . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . 4 3 . . . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . . , . . . . . , . . . . . X . . . |
$$ | . . O . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . . , . . . . . , . . . . . , X . . |
$$ | . . . O . . . . . . . . . . X . . . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ ---------------------------------------[/go]


Good move of him.
I was expecting O13 so I would play N16 instead.
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EdLee
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Post by EdLee »

Click Here To Show Diagram Code
[go]$$Bm11
$$ ------------------------------------------
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . 6 . O . . . . |
$$ | . . . O . . . . . , . . 5 . O 1 X . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . 2 X . . . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . 4 3 . . . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |[/go]
bgrieco wrote:Good move [ :b15:] of him.
( For beginners. ) No. :b15: is not good for B, and it helps W.
W can just connect with :w2:. Then W has the nice follow-up
of W(a) hane, B(b) hane, W(c) double-hane:
Click Here To Show Diagram Code
[go]$$B
$$ ------------------------------------------
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . O . . . . |
$$ | . . . O . . . . . , . . 1 2 O X X . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . O X . . . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . O X . . . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . a b . . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . c . . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |[/go]
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bgrieco
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Re: #216 Quietimes vs BGrieco

Post by bgrieco »

I haven't read edlee's post, but I know what it is about.
My last move was a mistake. I spent the whole night thinking about it.
I was tired and I panicked.
I should have pinced black.
Rats... :grumpy:
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EdLee
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Post by EdLee »

bgrieco wrote:My last move was a mistake. ...I should have pinced black.
( For beginners. ) No. Over-thinking. Unclear on the basics. Just connect.
Click Here To Show Diagram Code
[go]$$B
$$ -----------------------------------------
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . O . . . . |
$$ | . . . O . . . . . , . . 1 2 O X X . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . O X . . . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . O X . . . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |[/go]
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quietimes
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Re: #216 Quietimes vs BGrieco

Post by quietimes »

Click Here To Show Diagram Code
[go]$$Bcm11 #216 Quietimes (KGS 16k)vs BGrieco (IGS 16k)
$$ ---------------------------------------
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . 6 . O . . . . |
$$ | . . . O . . . . . , . . 5 7 O 1 X . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . 2 X . . . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . 4 3 . . . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . . , . . . . . , . . . . . X . . . |
$$ | . . O . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . . , . . . . . , . . . . . , X . . |
$$ | . . . O . . . . . . . . . . X . . . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ ---------------------------------------[/go]


Well not as planned. I will cut and likely run/tenuki? I am really feeling a need to lay a claim on the bottom middle star point. Just seems like the bigger move.
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quietimes
Dies with sente
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Re: #216 Quietimes vs BGrieco

Post by quietimes »

Looking back 30 seconds later, I must admit I am really disappointed in my previous move. Disgusted more accurate.
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