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Offline bgrieco
 Post subject: Re: #216 Quietimes vs BGrieco
Post #41 Posted: Fri May 10, 2013 4:53 pm 
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@Quietimes

I don't know about you, but I am REALLY curious about those comments.
I've seen some of Ed Lee's reviews of other games which are really good.
I wonder how much more we can learn about our mistakes and tesujis by reading them at this phase, while the moves are fresh and we remember clearly our strategy than at the end of the game where they will just be stuff we can't remember why we played that way.
If you want to open your gifts before Christmas, just say :twisted:
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Offline Boidhre
 Post subject: Re: #216 Quietimes vs BGrieco
Post #42 Posted: Fri May 10, 2013 7:02 pm 
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It wouldn't be a good idea, some of the comments would definitely influence the game. Others wouldn't.

This post by Boidhre was liked by: Bonobo
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Offline bgrieco
 Post subject: Re: #216 Quietimes vs BGrieco
Post #43 Posted: Fri May 10, 2013 9:22 pm 
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Sorry to say that, but in my POV they already did.
For instance, in my malkovitch game against Dragon Pie, there are 46 posts for 39 moves.
In this game, there are 41 posts for 22 moves. There is almost one commentary per move.
It feels very awkward to make a move and see a post right afterwards.
In my head, it doesn't sound as "white made a good move", it sounds like "white should have played at a or b, now he created a bad shape, and black should play K10 asap", so I my next thought is "Darn....".

As I've seen, the last games were played by dans or SDKs, guys who have more conscience of the game. Perhaps, for them, those posts don't make a huge difference.

I imagine myself playing go, surrounded by people watching the game speaking in a language I can't understand, laughing, pointing at the board, etc.
I can't help to feel like the joke is on me.

I understand that the purpose of a Malkovitch game is exactly to know what the players are thinking and be able to discuss about it. But I never realized, until now, what exactly is to be "malkovitched".

This game may go on for months. I don't know for how long I'll be able to handle it. :oops:
I really would like to call it off. But I would like to know Quietimes' view on this.
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Offline The Intrepid
 Post subject: Re: #216 Quietimes vs BGrieco
Post #44 Posted: Fri May 10, 2013 10:56 pm 
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You are playing this game relatively quickly. I don't think it'll take you "months" to complete it. Keep the game going, and don't look at the hidden comments. :mrgreen: Doing so would definitely influence the game.

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Offline EdLee
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Post #45 Posted: Fri May 10, 2013 11:01 pm 
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bgrieco wrote:
This game may go on for months. I don't know for how long I'll be able to handle it. :oops:
I really would like to call it off.
bgrieco, I waited almost 1 year (~11 days short) to read the hidden posts in my last Malkovich game!
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Offline EdLee
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Post #46 Posted: Fri May 10, 2013 11:20 pm 
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Phoenix,
Phoenix wrote:
I've been screaming in my head "Play 'a', play 'a'! Game over!"
At first, that's what I thought, too. But...
Click Here To Show Diagram Code
[go]$$B
$$ -----------------------------------------
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . 3 . 2 . . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . O 1 O . . 4 . |
$$ | . . . O . . . . . , . . X X O X X . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . O X . . . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . O X . . . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . . , . . . . . , . . . . . X . . . |[/go]
Then I realized, oh, at these levels, anything can still happen, so I changed
the first impression of "game over" to "If :b1:, the fight is difficult for White" in Post 32. :)
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Offline EdLee
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Post #47 Posted: Fri May 10, 2013 11:54 pm 
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bgrieco, quietimes,
Some hidden posts could be pretty good, some are OK, while a few may be completely wrong. :)
bgrieco wrote:
But I never realized, until now, what exactly is to be "malkovitched".
You're correct -- personal experience is a bit different, isn't it. :mrgreen:
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Offline quietimes
 Post subject: Re: #216 Quietimes vs BGrieco
Post #48 Posted: Sat May 11, 2013 6:41 am 
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Busy times. Sorry for my delay, life caught up to me for a bit. I choose to not open the posts. I am putting my thoughts on strategy at the time in the hide sections so losing "strategery" when I review are at less risk. I will become influenced by whatever I read, were we to look early.

I am greatly appreciative of all the comments and to not see them is of little bother. In my paranoid critical mind most of them are "what was he thinking?! why play there?!". Not seeing these makes for a better game from me.

Absolutely enjoying the experience and would like to stay the course.

WIll have a move here shortly.
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Offline quietimes
 Post subject: Re: #216 Quietimes vs BGrieco
Post #49 Posted: Sat May 11, 2013 2:30 pm 
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Click Here To Show Diagram Code
[go]$$Bcm21 #216 Quietimes (KGS 16k)vs BGrieco (IGS 16k)
$$ ---------------------------------------
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . O . O . . . . |
$$ | . . . O . . . . . , . . X X O X X . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . O X . . . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . O X . . . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . O X . . . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . O . . . . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . . , . . . . . , . . . . . X . . . |
$$ | . . O . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . . , . . . . . 1 . . . . . , X . . |
$$ | . . . O . . . 2 3 . . . . . X . . . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ ---------------------------------------[/go]
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Offline bgrieco
 Post subject: Re: #216 Quietimes vs BGrieco
Post #50 Posted: Sat May 11, 2013 6:25 pm 
Dies with sente

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Click Here To Show Diagram Code
[go]$$Bcm21 #216 Quietimes (KGS 16k)vs BGrieco (IGS 16k)
$$ ---------------------------------------
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . O . O . . . . |
$$ | . . . O . . . . . , . . X X O X X . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . O X . . . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . 4 . . O X . . . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . O X . . . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . O . . . . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . . , . . . . . , . . . . . X . . . |
$$ | . . O . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . . , . . . . . 1 . . . . . , X . . |
$$ | . . . O . . . 2 3 . . . . . X . . . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ ---------------------------------------[/go]
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Offline quietimes
 Post subject: Re: #216 Quietimes vs BGrieco
Post #51 Posted: Sun May 12, 2013 7:01 pm 
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Click Here To Show Diagram Code
[go]$$Bcm21 #216 Quietimes (KGS 16k)vs BGrieco (IGS 16k)
$$ ---------------------------------------
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . O . O . . . . |
$$ | . . . O . . . . 5 , . . X X O X X . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . O X . . . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . 4 . . O X . . . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . O X . . . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . O . . . . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . . , . . . . . , . . . . . X . . . |
$$ | . . O . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . . , . . . . . 1 . . . . . , X . . |
$$ | . . . O . . . 2 3 . . . . . X . . . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ ---------------------------------------[/go]


So M14 not expected. I do see that the P wall demands to have an extension, however M14 doesn't make an immediate threat on the black O-P group. It is in a prime position for a second move cut.

Also that is the only unclaimed side of the board.

Unless I do a one point jump, I wouldn't count on the O- P groups longevity or stability. And it is kind of small.

An approach at F16 sets me up for a pincer and that would in turn set up the North center. G16 Reduces the pincer a bit. J 16 puts me in the middle of nowhere but ready for a fair fight.

I think I will go J16 and wait for the fight to begin. If he comes in from M 14 side run out to D16, make some land. Walk around the bases after that.
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Offline quietimes
 Post subject: Re: #216 Quietimes vs BGrieco
Post #52 Posted: Sun May 12, 2013 7:03 pm 
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as always, hind site says something different. Looks like I set up BG to extend his NW corner towards me. I should have moved over to G16 or maybe even H16
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Offline bgrieco
 Post subject: Re: #216 Quietimes vs BGrieco
Post #53 Posted: Sun May 12, 2013 7:06 pm 
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Click Here To Show Diagram Code
[go]$$Bcm21 #216 Quietimes (KGS 16k)vs BGrieco (IGS 16k)
$$ ---------------------------------------
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . O . O . . . . |
$$ | . . . O . . . . 5 , . 6 X X O X X . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . O X . . . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . 4 . . O X . . . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . O X . . . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . O . . . . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . . , . . . . . , . . . . . X . . . |
$$ | . . O . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . . , . . . . . 1 . . . . . , X . . |
$$ | . . . O . . . 2 3 . . . . . X . . . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ ---------------------------------------[/go]


I'm going on a business trip. Will be back on thursday.
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Offline quietimes
 Post subject: Re: #216 Quietimes vs BGrieco
Post #54 Posted: Mon May 13, 2013 7:28 pm 
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Click Here To Show Diagram Code
[go]$$Bcm21 #216 Quietimes (KGS 16k)vs BGrieco (IGS 16k)
$$ ---------------------------------------
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . . . . 7 . . . . . . O . O . . . . |
$$ | . . . O . . . . 5 , . 6 X X O X X . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . O X . . . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . 4 . . O X . . . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . O X . . . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . O . . . . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . . , . . . . . , . . . . . X . . . |
$$ | . . O . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . . , . . . . . 1 . . . . . , X . . |
$$ | . . . O . . . 2 3 . . . . . X . . . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ ---------------------------------------[/go]


So no the response I would have thought. Those stones are dead already, to me anyways. Advance toward the NW corner with a 3 row stone to provoke a gote "like response". My goal is to provoke that response then skip to the D line around 13 and stir up something. Break up the board and hit tengen. I see he has a lot of influence developing toward the center. A concern however early.
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Offline quietimes
 Post subject: Re: #216 Quietimes vs BGrieco
Post #55 Posted: Mon May 13, 2013 7:28 pm 
Dies with sente

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Safe travels
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Offline quietimes
 Post subject: Re: #216 Quietimes vs BGrieco
Post #56 Posted: Tue May 14, 2013 4:52 pm 
Dies with sente

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Aside from my opponent all comments have dried up. :grumpy: Love the pic of the dog and skunk however.
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Offline skydyr
 Post subject: Re: #216 Quietimes vs BGrieco
Post #57 Posted: Tue May 14, 2013 6:21 pm 
Oza

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If there's anything you want commented on, you can always ask in your hide tags when you move or explain your thinking.
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Offline quietimes
 Post subject: Re: #216 Quietimes vs BGrieco
Post #58 Posted: Wed May 15, 2013 12:11 pm 
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Never even thought. Was in a one way st kind of viewpoint. TX for the tip.
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Offline kex
 Post subject: Re: #216 Quietimes vs BGrieco
Post #59 Posted: Wed May 15, 2013 12:15 pm 
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quietimes wrote:
So no the response I would have thought. Those stones are dead already, to me anyways. Advance toward the NW corner with a 3 row stone to provoke a gote "like response". My goal is to provoke that response then skip to the D line around 13 and stir up something. Break up the board and hit tengen. I see he has a lot of influence developing toward the center. A concern however early.


Just a comment, as these were requested. 26 makes white on the right indestructible, as it prevents the cut at "a" (as seen from the previous comments :) This makes 25 and 27 weak, especially after a white response at "b" or around. making another weak group at D13 for an attack target might fire back. Besides, "c" looks delicious to me.

Click Here To Show Diagram Code
[go]$$Bcm21 #216 Quietimes (KGS 16k)vs BGrieco (IGS 16k)
$$ ---------------------------------------
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . . b . 7 . . . . . . O a O . . . . |
$$ | . . . O . . . . 5 , . 6 X X O X X . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . O X . . . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . 4 . . O X . . . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . O X . . . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . O . . . . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . . , . . . . . , . . . . . X . . . |
$$ | . . O . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . . , . . . c . 1 . . . . . , X . . |
$$ | . . . O . . . 2 3 . . . . . X . . . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ ---------------------------------------[/go]
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Offline bgrieco
 Post subject: Re: #216 Quietimes vs BGrieco
Post #60 Posted: Thu May 16, 2013 2:57 pm 
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Click Here To Show Diagram Code
[go]$$Bcm21 #216 Quietimes (KGS 16k)vs BGrieco (IGS 16k)
$$ ---------------------------------------
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . . . . 7 . . . . . . O . O . . . . |
$$ | . . . O . . . . 5 , . 6 X X O X X . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . O X . . . . |
$$ | . . . 8 . . . . . . 4 . . O X . . . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . O X . . . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . O . . . . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . . , . . . . . , . . . . . X . . . |
$$ | . . O . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . . , . . . . . 1 . . . . . , X . . |
$$ | . . . O . . . 2 3 . . . . . X . . . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ ---------------------------------------[/go]


Standard response. If white invades corner I'll try to connect to my wall (somehow)
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