Any advice or thoughts?
Two club games from today
-
jts
- Oza
- Posts: 2662
- Joined: Sat Sep 18, 2010 4:17 pm
- Rank: kgs 6k
- GD Posts: 0
- Has thanked: 310 times
- Been thanked: 632 times
Two club games from today
I'm trying to get better at making SGFs and posting games for review. Here are two games I lost today. The first is even, and I get into trouble early. In the second I take two stones, and it takes me longer to get into trouble.
Any advice or thoughts?
Any advice or thoughts?
- Attachments
-
- 130714vsmark.sgf
- (3.35 KiB) Downloaded 510 times
-
- 130714vsalex.sgf
- (3.57 KiB) Downloaded 512 times
-
Splatted
- Lives in sente
- Posts: 734
- Joined: Mon Apr 26, 2010 12:41 pm
- Rank: Washed up never was
- GD Posts: 0
- Universal go server handle: Splatted
- Has thanked: 681 times
- Been thanked: 138 times
Re: Two club games from today
Probably way off but here are some thoughts on game 1:
33: I can't see how you can look at this position and think saving the lone stone at B7 takes priority. In the process of saving it you strengthened white considerably, and for it to have any meaning you have to save all your stones anyway, so why not just connect and strengthen all your stones without helping white's?
S7 also seems to be sente and a very important shape move.
41:
I agree, but I think the reverse is also true to a certain extent; if white can't attack the C6 stones, what is the point of his C7 group? I don't know how closely you looked at G7, but it seems like the best option to me. If white defends the bottom you can probably gain enough strength to play C12 and make it a fight between two weak groups, and if he decides to save his C7 group by attacking C11 you can make it a trade resulting in you both saving your weak groups.
53: I'd just poke on through with G9.
59: G6 seems much better shape here.
33: I can't see how you can look at this position and think saving the lone stone at B7 takes priority. In the process of saving it you strengthened white considerably, and for it to have any meaning you have to save all your stones anyway, so why not just connect and strengthen all your stones without helping white's?
S7 also seems to be sente and a very important shape move.
41:
The idea of E7 was that if I had no attack on D9, my entire way of playing up to here was ridiculous.
I agree, but I think the reverse is also true to a certain extent; if white can't attack the C6 stones, what is the point of his C7 group? I don't know how closely you looked at G7, but it seems like the best option to me. If white defends the bottom you can probably gain enough strength to play C12 and make it a fight between two weak groups, and if he decides to save his C7 group by attacking C11 you can make it a trade resulting in you both saving your weak groups.
53: I'd just poke on through with G9.
59: G6 seems much better shape here.
-
quantumf
- Lives in sente
- Posts: 844
- Joined: Tue Apr 20, 2010 11:36 pm
- Rank: 3d
- GD Posts: 422
- KGS: komi
- Has thanked: 180 times
- Been thanked: 151 times
Re: Two club games from today
It's 23 that I find a bit odd. Why not just pull back with a 2 space jump on the third line? Later you can look forward to invading on the bottom area, as white is likely to do something about your largish moyo now, rather than growing/securing the bottom.
Beyond that, what about 29 at C11? This way white also gets a running group (and you're taking more territory). You're a little outnumbered in the middle, but you should be fine.
Beyond that, what about 29 at C11? This way white also gets a running group (and you're taking more territory). You're a little outnumbered in the middle, but you should be fine.
-
drmwc
- Lives in gote
- Posts: 452
- Joined: Sat Dec 01, 2012 2:18 pm
- Rank: 4 Dan European
- GD Posts: 0
- Has thanked: 74 times
- Been thanked: 100 times
Re: Two club games from today
Move 45 in the first game:
I think you can cut on the oustside. This sets up a crane's nest thing, so whilte collapses in the line above (and many other lines as well). SO white needs to abandon the 2 cutting stones:
However, 52 doens't work - B can bust out of the net. So this is good for black as well.
I think you can cut on the oustside. This sets up a crane's nest thing, so whilte collapses in the line above (and many other lines as well). SO white needs to abandon the 2 cutting stones:
However, 52 doens't work - B can bust out of the net. So this is good for black as well.
-
lovelove
- Lives in gote
- Posts: 604
- Joined: Mon Nov 05, 2012 4:21 am
- Rank: Tygem 5 Dan
- GD Posts: 0
- Location: Séoul, Corée
- Has thanked: 88 times
- Been thanked: 365 times
Re: Two club games from today
short review for game 2
- Attachments
-
- 130714vsmark.sgf
- (3.83 KiB) Downloaded 473 times
Amsterdam, soon.
-
jts
- Oza
- Posts: 2662
- Joined: Sat Sep 18, 2010 4:17 pm
- Rank: kgs 6k
- GD Posts: 0
- Has thanked: 310 times
- Been thanked: 632 times
Re: Two club games from today
Thank you, lovelove. Very interesting pespective - not just better reading than mine, but different positional judgment as well.
My view was that I was aiming at having thickness on the right side, so I was anxious to get rid of the cutting points at n13 and o14 by capturing stones. But now that you've said you like emphasizing the top, it's hard to see anything threatening about those cuts!
Btw, "ajious" is my new favorite word.
My view was that I was aiming at having thickness on the right side, so I was anxious to get rid of the cutting points at n13 and o14 by capturing stones. But now that you've said you like emphasizing the top, it's hard to see anything threatening about those cuts!
Btw, "ajious" is my new favorite word.
-
Joaz Banbeck
- Judan
- Posts: 5546
- Joined: Sun Dec 06, 2009 11:30 am
- Rank: 1D AGA
- GD Posts: 1512
- Kaya handle: Test
- Location: Banbeck Vale
- Has thanked: 1080 times
- Been thanked: 1434 times
Re: Two club games from today
Comments about game 1:
It is late, so my comments may not be tactically sound, but there is interesting stuff about shape and direction.
Overall, I think that C6 was an overplay that got you into trouble. P4 - as your opponent claimed - may have been an overplay too. There is a similarity in the way that you handled both lower corners. You let your groups become heavy in the presence of numerically superior forces, when there were alternatives for lighter play and/or better shape.
It is late, so my comments may not be tactically sound, but there is interesting stuff about shape and direction.
Overall, I think that C6 was an overplay that got you into trouble. P4 - as your opponent claimed - may have been an overplay too. There is a similarity in the way that you handled both lower corners. You let your groups become heavy in the presence of numerically superior forces, when there were alternatives for lighter play and/or better shape.
];B[ci];W[di](;B[cj]C[JB: Either extend or hane, and devil take the hindmost.];W[dj];B[em]C[This is a pretty miserable move. It's so heavy. Alternative ideas: play C12 and let W have D6 if ihe wants; reduce lightly around L7. During the review, I looked into G6, but it's not promising.Help make L19 more organized. Make an index: https://lifein19x19.com/viewtopic.php?f=14&t=5207
-
drmwc
- Lives in gote
- Posts: 452
- Joined: Sat Dec 01, 2012 2:18 pm
- Rank: 4 Dan European
- GD Posts: 0
- Has thanked: 74 times
- Been thanked: 100 times
Re: Two club games from today
Game 2 at the top, there is a nice teusji for black
First of all consider this line:
Now consider this attachment for black:
White has two options. One is similar to the reference diagram:
The key point is that white has lost an extra stone in the ladder. This is an unconditional loss for white, losing all types of nice endgame moves relative to the reference diagram.
White can also consider this:
Black gets a comfortable position. White's centre group is short of liberties and on the run, and black should get eyes along the top easily enough.
First of all consider this line:
Now consider this attachment for black:
White has two options. One is similar to the reference diagram:
The key point is that white has lost an extra stone in the ladder. This is an unconditional loss for white, losing all types of nice endgame moves relative to the reference diagram.
White can also consider this:
Black gets a comfortable position. White's centre group is short of liberties and on the run, and black should get eyes along the top easily enough.
-
jts
- Oza
- Posts: 2662
- Joined: Sat Sep 18, 2010 4:17 pm
- Rank: kgs 6k
- GD Posts: 0
- Has thanked: 310 times
- Been thanked: 632 times
Re: Two club games from today
Wow, excellent tesuji, Drmwc. It's so nice to see an opportunity to play that sort of wrong-side attachment.
Joaz, thanks for the suggestions. I particularly like the eye-stealing variation at 33.
Joaz, thanks for the suggestions. I particularly like the eye-stealing variation at 33.