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Offline The Intrepid
 Post subject: Re: #211 Adanux vs. tj86430
Post #61 Posted: Thu Jun 20, 2013 12:43 am 
Lives in gote

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Was liked: 45
Black probably should have pushed into White's territory first. White would still have to defend like in the game, but he would get one point fewer and one cutting point more:
Click Here To Show Diagram Code
[go]$$Bc
$$ +---------------------------------------+
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . O . . M 2 M . . . . X O O . . . . |
$$ | . . . . O O 1 O . . . . X X . O O O . |
$$ | . . X , . X X O O X . . . . . X X O . |
$$ | . . . X X X X X O 3 . . . . . . . X . |
$$ | . . O X . O X O X . . . . . . . X . . |
$$ | . . O . . . . O . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |[/go]

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Offline tj86430
 Post subject: Re: #211 Adanux vs. tj86430
Post #62 Posted: Wed Jul 03, 2013 9:00 pm 
Gosei

Posts: 1348
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Liked others: 49
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Rank: FGA 7k GoR 1297
I'm extremely sorry for the long break, I will try to make my next move during next weekend at the latest.

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Offline tj86430
 Post subject: Re: #211 Adanux vs. tj86430
Post #63 Posted: Sun Jul 07, 2013 10:48 pm 
Gosei

Posts: 1348
Location: Finland
Liked others: 49
Was liked: 129
Rank: FGA 7k GoR 1297
Click Here To Show Diagram Code
[go]$$Bcm51 captures: :w1:
$$ +---------------------------------------+
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . O . . . . . . . . . X O O . . . . |
$$ | . . . . O O O O . . . . X X . O O O . |
$$ | . . X , . X X O O X . . . . . X X O . |
$$ | . . . X X X X X O X . . . . . . . X . |
$$ | . . O X . O X O X 5 . . . . . . X . . |
$$ | . . O . . . . O . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . . O . . . . . , . . . . . X . . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . O . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . X . . . . . |
$$ | . . . O . . . . . X . . . . X X X . . |
$$ | . . . . . X . . . . . . . O . O O O . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ +---------------------------------------+[/go]


I did some reading, and I remember finding some flaw with this move. However, since I lost my variations due to a power outage, I don't remember any more what it was, and I can't find it again. I have spent too much time already, so I'm making my move and hoping it's ok after all. If not, I'm sure I'll soon find out why.

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Offline Adanux
 Post subject: Re: #211 Adanux vs. tj86430
Post #64 Posted: Tue Jul 09, 2013 5:27 pm 
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Click Here To Show Diagram Code
[go]$$Bcm51 captures: :w1:
$$ +---------------------------------------+
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . O . . . . . . . . . X O O . . . . |
$$ | . . . . O O O O . . . . X X . O O O . |
$$ | . . X , . X X O O X . . . . . X X O . |
$$ | . . . X X X X X O X . . . . . . . X . |
$$ | . . O X . O X O X 5 . . . . . . X . . |
$$ | . . O . . . 6 O . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . . O . . . . . , . . . . . X . . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . O . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . X . . . . . |
$$ | . . . O . . . . . X . . . . X X X . . |
$$ | . . . . . X . . . . . . . O . O O O . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ +---------------------------------------+[/go]


A bold move by my opponent. On the one hand, it fixes his only weakness on the right hand side so he has only one weak group to worry about during this fight. On the other hand, he's giving me a free move to try and kill his extremely heavy and currently eyeless group in the upper left. He must really trust his reading that he can escape, since his victory becomes very unlikely if that group dies. Conversely, I think I can win even if it lives assuming I'm able to profit attacking it and gain a strong center facing group to reduce him with. I don't think I can cleanly kill him but I should be able to profit enough from it to be in a good position to win the game.
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Offline tj86430
 Post subject: Re: #211 Adanux vs. tj86430
Post #65 Posted: Tue Jul 09, 2013 9:48 pm 
Gosei

Posts: 1348
Location: Finland
Liked others: 49
Was liked: 129
Rank: FGA 7k GoR 1297
Click Here To Show Diagram Code
[go]$$Bcm51 captures: :w1:
$$ +---------------------------------------+
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . O . . . . . . . . . X O O . . . . |
$$ | . . . . O O O O . . . . X X . O O O . |
$$ | . . X , . X X O O X . . . . . X X O . |
$$ | . . . X X X X X O X . . . . . . . X . |
$$ | . . O X . O X O X X . . . . . . X . . |
$$ | . . O . . 7 O O . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . . O . . . . . , . . . . . X . . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . O . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . X . . . . . |
$$ | . . . O . . . . . X . . . . X X X . . |
$$ | . . . . . X . . . . . . . O . O O O . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ +---------------------------------------+[/go]


I can't think of anything better. In fact, I can't think of anything else.

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Offline tj86430
 Post subject: Re: #211 Adanux vs. tj86430
Post #66 Posted: Sat Jul 13, 2013 12:27 am 
Gosei

Posts: 1348
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I realized that my comments have been quite uninformative lately.

Here's what I've been thinking:

Click Here To Show Diagram Code
[go]$$Wcm1 captures: :w1:
$$ +---------------------------------------+
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . O . . . . . . . . . X O O . . . . |
$$ | . . . . O O O O . . . . X X . O O O . |
$$ | . . X , . X X O O X . . . . . X X O . |
$$ | . . . X X X X X O X . . . . . . . X . |
$$ | . . O X 3 O X O X X . . . . . . X . . |
$$ | . . O 4 1 B O O . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . 8 6 5 2 . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . . . 7 . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . . O . . . . . , . . . . . X . . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . O . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . X . . . . . |
$$ | . . . O . . . . . X . . . . X X X . . |
$$ | . . . . . X . . . . . . . O . O O O . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ +---------------------------------------+[/go]

After which I should be able to kill C14 and live on the edge

OR

Click Here To Show Diagram Code
[go]$$Wcm1 captures: :w1:
$$ +---------------------------------------+
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . O . . . . . . . . . X O O . . . . |
$$ | . . . . O O O O . . . . X X . O O O . |
$$ | . . X , . X X O O X . . . . . X X O . |
$$ | . . . X X X X X O X . . . . . . . X . |
$$ | . . O X 4 O X O X X . . . . . . X . . |
$$ | . . O 3 1 B O O . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . . . . 2 . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . 5 . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . . O . 6 . . . , . . . . . X . . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . O . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . X . . . . . |
$$ | . . . O . . . . . X . . . . X X X . . |
$$ | . . . . . X . . . . . . . O . O O O . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ +---------------------------------------+[/go]

which leads to a very complicated fight

OR

Click Here To Show Diagram Code
[go]$$Wcm1 captures: :w1:
$$ +---------------------------------------+
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . O . . . . . . . . . X O O . . . . |
$$ | . 4 . . O O O O . . . . X X . O O O . |
$$ | . . X , . X X O O X . . . . . X X O . |
$$ | . . . X X X X X O X . . . . . . . X . |
$$ | . . O X . O X O X X . . . . . . X . . |
$$ | . . O . 2 B O O . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . . . 3 1 . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . . O . . . . . , . . . . . X . . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . O . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . X . . . . . |
$$ | . . . O . . . . . X . . . . X X X . . |
$$ | . . . . . X . . . . . . . O . O O O . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ +---------------------------------------+[/go]

which should secure two eyes

OR

Click Here To Show Diagram Code
[go]$$Wcm1 captures: :w1:
$$ +---------------------------------------+
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . O . . . . . . . . . X O O . . . . |
$$ | . 3 . . O O O O . . . . X X . O O O . |
$$ | . . X , . X X O O X . . . . . X X O . |
$$ | . . . X X X X X O X . . . . . . . X . |
$$ | . . O X . O X O X X . . . . . . X . . |
$$ | . . O . 2 B O O . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . . . 4 1 . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . . . . 5 . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . . O . . . . . , . . . . . X . . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . O . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . X . . . . . |
$$ | . . . O . . . . . X . . . . X X X . . |
$$ | . . . . . X . . . . . . . O . O O O . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ +---------------------------------------+[/go]

Which is also very complicated, and I'm not sure of the best continuation from there.

BTW, I'm hoping my opponent thinks I'm going to do this:

Click Here To Show Diagram Code
[go]$$Wcm1 :b4: @ F14
$$ +---------------------------------------+
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . O . . . . . . . . . X O O . . . . |
$$ | . . . . O O O O . . . . X X . O O O . |
$$ | . . X , . X X O O X . . . . . X X O . |
$$ | . . . X X X X X O X . . . . . . . X . |
$$ | . . O X 2 O X O X X . . . . . . X . . |
$$ | . . O 5 1 B O O . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . . . . 3 . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . . O . . . . . , . . . . . X . . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . O . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . X . . . . . |
$$ | . . . O . . . . . X . . . . X X X . . |
$$ | . . . . . X . . . . . . . O . O O O . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ +---------------------------------------+[/go]

but I'm sure he can see the other variants.

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Offline Adanux
 Post subject: Re: #211 Adanux vs. tj86430
Post #67 Posted: Sat Jul 13, 2013 1:26 pm 
Dies in gote

Posts: 60
Liked others: 2
Was liked: 0
Click Here To Show Diagram Code
[go]$$Wcm58 captures: :w1:
$$ +---------------------------------------+
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . O . . . . . . . . . X O O . . . . |
$$ | . . . . O O O O . . . . X X . O O O . |
$$ | . . X , . X X O O X . . . . . X X O . |
$$ | . . . X X X X X O X . . . . . . . X . |
$$ | . . O X . O X O X X . . . . . . X . . |
$$ | . . O . . X O O . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . . . . 1 . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . . O . . . . . , . . . . . X . . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . O . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . X . . . . . |
$$ | . . . O . . . . . X . . . . X X X . . |
$$ | . . . . . X . . . . . . . O . O O O . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ +---------------------------------------+[/go]


I've spent a lot of time staring at this problem and I can't find anything better than this simple atari. To explain why, I'll start with what I expect.


Click Here To Show Diagram Code
[go]$$Wcm58 What I expect
$$ +---------------------------------------+
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . 7 O . . . . . . . . . X O O . . . . |
$$ | . 6 . . O O O O . . . . X X . O O O . |
$$ | . . X , . X X O O X . . . . . X X O . |
$$ | . 8 . X X X X X O X . . . . . . . X . |
$$ | . . O X . O X O X X . . . . . . X . . |
$$ | . . O 4 2 X O O . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . . 5 3 1 . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . . O . . . . . , . . . . . X . . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . O . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . X . . . . . |
$$ | . . . O . . . . . X . . . . X X X . . |
$$ | . . . . . X . . . . . . . O . O O O . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ +---------------------------------------+[/go]


This line lets him live, and leaves me with a cut at G12, but I have sente to find a move that both fixes it it and makes inroads into my opponent's influence. It also solidifies the left side as points for me, seals him in forcing him to live small, and removes all the aji at C12 that could have been exploited if we got into a running fight. Finally and most importantly, it gives me a lot of center facing thickness which should help greatly when I'm reducing him. However, if my opponent is feeling feisty he may not play 63 and instead decide to cut directly at G12. I've read out a lot of variations from that and I haven't seen anything in them that give him a better result than this so I certainly wouldn't mind him playing that way.
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Offline tj86430
 Post subject: Re: #211 Adanux vs. tj86430
Post #68 Posted: Sat Jul 13, 2013 2:00 pm 
Gosei

Posts: 1348
Location: Finland
Liked others: 49
Was liked: 129
Rank: FGA 7k GoR 1297
Click Here To Show Diagram Code
[go]$$Wcm58 captures: :w1:
$$ +---------------------------------------+
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . O . . . . . . . . . X O O . . . . |
$$ | . . . . O O O O . . . . X X . O O O . |
$$ | . . X , . X X O O X . . . . . X X O . |
$$ | . . . X X X X X O X . . . . . . . X . |
$$ | . . O X . O X O X X . . . . . . X . . |
$$ | . . O . 2 X O O . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . . . . O . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . . O . . . . . , . . . . . X . . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . O . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . X . . . . . |
$$ | . . . O . . . . . X . . . . X X X . . |
$$ | . . . . . X . . . . . . . O . O O O . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ +---------------------------------------+[/go]

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Offline Adanux
 Post subject: Re: #211 Adanux vs. tj86430
Post #69 Posted: Sun Jul 14, 2013 6:49 pm 
Dies in gote

Posts: 60
Liked others: 2
Was liked: 0
Click Here To Show Diagram Code
[go]$$Wcm58 captures: :w1:
$$ +---------------------------------------+
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . O . . . . . . . . . X O O . . . . |
$$ | . . . . O O O O . . . . X X . O O O . |
$$ | . . X , . X X O O X . . . . . X X O . |
$$ | . . . X X X X X O X . . . . . . . X . |
$$ | . . O X . O X O X X . . . . . . X . . |
$$ | . . O . 2 X O O . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . . . 3 O . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . . O . . . . . , . . . . . X . . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . O . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . X . . . . . |
$$ | . . . O . . . . . X . . . . X X X . . |
$$ | . . . . . X . . . . . . . O . O O O . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ +---------------------------------------+[/go]


This is forced now. I can only hope that my previous reading was correct, since if he's able to cut directly without having to go back and live, this game is probably over.
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Offline tj86430
 Post subject: Re: #211 Adanux vs. tj86430
Post #70 Posted: Mon Jul 15, 2013 6:10 am 
Gosei

Posts: 1348
Location: Finland
Liked others: 49
Was liked: 129
Rank: FGA 7k GoR 1297
Click Here To Show Diagram Code
[go]$$Wcm58 captures: :w1:
$$ +---------------------------------------+
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . O . . . . . . . . . X O O . . . . |
$$ | . 4 . . O O O O . . . . X X . O O O . |
$$ | . . X , . X X O O X . . . . . X X O . |
$$ | . . . X X X X X O X . . . . . . . X . |
$$ | . . O X . O X O X X . . . . . . X . . |
$$ | . . O . X X O O . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . . . O O . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . . O . . . . . , . . . . . X . . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . O . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . X . . . . . |
$$ | . . . O . . . . . X . . . . X X X . . |
$$ | . . . . . X . . . . . . . O . O O O . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ +---------------------------------------+[/go]


It seems that I had misread earlier. However, I still think I can survive, e.g.:

Click Here To Show Diagram Code
[go]$$Wcm1 captures: :w1:
$$ +---------------------------------------+
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . 1 O 5 . . . . . . . . X O O . . . . |
$$ | . B 6 4 O O O O . . . . X X . O O O . |
$$ | . . X , . X X O O X . . . . . X X O . |
$$ | . 2 3 X X X X X O X . . . . . . . X . |
$$ | . . O X . O X O X X . . . . . . X . . |
$$ | . . O . X X O O . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . . . O O . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . . O . . . . . , . . . . . X . . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . O . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . X . . . . . |
$$ | . . . O . . . . . X . . . . X X X . . |
$$ | . . . . . X . . . . . . . O . O O O . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ +---------------------------------------+[/go]

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Offline tj86430
 Post subject: Re: #211 Adanux vs. tj86430
Post #71 Posted: Mon Jul 15, 2013 6:58 am 
Gosei

Posts: 1348
Location: Finland
Liked others: 49
Was liked: 129
Rank: FGA 7k GoR 1297
I think I overlooked this:

Click Here To Show Diagram Code
[go]$$Wcm1 captures: :w1:
$$ +---------------------------------------+
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . O . . . . . . . . . X O O . . . . |
$$ | . B . . O O O O . . . . X X . O O O . |
$$ | . . X , . X X O O X . . . . . X X O . |
$$ | . . 1 X X X X X O X . . . . . . . X . |
$$ | . . O X . O X O X X . . . . . . X . . |
$$ | . . O . X X O O . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . . . O O . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . . O . . . . . , . . . . . X . . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . O . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . X . . . . . |
$$ | . . . O . . . . . X . . . . X X X . . |
$$ | . . . . . X . . . . . . . O . O O O . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ +---------------------------------------+[/go]


I'm yet to find a way to save everything against optimal play, but perhaps there is a way...

If not, I may be able to take the corner while sacrificing the D15 group. That would definitely hurt, but still leave me with a playable position.

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Offline Adanux
 Post subject: Re: #211 Adanux vs. tj86430
Post #72 Posted: Tue Jul 16, 2013 12:30 am 
Dies in gote

Posts: 60
Liked others: 2
Was liked: 0
Click Here To Show Diagram Code
[go]$$Wcm58 captures: :w1:
$$ +---------------------------------------+
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . O . . . . . . . . . X O O . . . . |
$$ | . 4 . . O O O O . . . . X X . O O O . |
$$ | . . X , . X X O O X . . . . . X X O . |
$$ | . . . X X X X X O X . . . . . . . X . |
$$ | . . O X . O X O X X . . . . . . X . . |
$$ | . . O 5 X X O O . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . . . O O . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . . O . . . . . , . . . . . X . . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . O . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . X . . . . . |
$$ | . . . O . . . . . X . . . . X X X . . |
$$ | . . . . . X . . . . . . . O . O O O . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ +---------------------------------------+[/go]


Very strange move by my opponent. The additional push at D13 seems very important since it shorts the liberties on my C13 group enough to make it impossible for me to play C15. Now that A play at C15 has the potential to make an eye at B15 false, which begins to open up some serious kill possibilities for me. The line I'm currently reading out leads to a ko that my opponent will win since he has a lot of local threats, but I won't lose much for having lost it, and I'll end with sente and some additional thickness.
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Offline tj86430
 Post subject: Re: #211 Adanux vs. tj86430
Post #73 Posted: Tue Jul 16, 2013 10:42 am 
Gosei

Posts: 1348
Location: Finland
Liked others: 49
Was liked: 129
Rank: FGA 7k GoR 1297
Click Here To Show Diagram Code
[go]$$Wcm58 captures: :w1:
$$ +---------------------------------------+
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . 6 O . . . . . . . . . X O O . . . . |
$$ | . X . . O O O O . . . . X X . O O O . |
$$ | . . X , . X X O O X . . . . . X X O . |
$$ | . . . X X X X X O X . . . . . . . X . |
$$ | . . O X . O X O X X . . . . . . X . . |
$$ | . . O O X X O O . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . . . O O . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . . O . . . . . , . . . . . X . . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . O . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . X . . . . . |
$$ | . . . O . . . . . X . . . . X X X . . |
$$ | . . . . . X . . . . . . . O . O O O . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ +---------------------------------------+[/go]


I almost posted this:

Quote:
Click Here To Show Diagram Code
[go]$$Wcm58 captures: :w2:
$$ +---------------------------------------+
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . O . . . . . . . . . X O O . . . . |
$$ | . X . . O O O O . . . . X X . O O O . |
$$ | . . X , . X X O O X . . . . . X X O . |
$$ | . . . X X X X X O X . . . . . . . X . |
$$ | . . O X 6 . X O X X . . . . . . X . . |
$$ | . . O O X X O O . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . . . O O . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . . O . . . . . , . . . . . X . . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . O . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . X . . . . . |
$$ | . . . O . . . . . X . . . . X X X . . |
$$ | . . . . . X . . . . . . . O . O O O . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ +---------------------------------------+[/go]


Forced, I think


But first I realised this would be nasty:
Click Here To Show Diagram Code
[go]$$Wcm1
$$ +---------------------------------------+
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . O . . . . . . . . . X O O . . . . |
$$ | . X 1 . O O O O . . . . X X . O O O . |
$$ | . . X , . X X O O X . . . . . X X O . |
$$ | . . . X X X X X O X . . . . . . . X . |
$$ | . . O X B . X O X X . . . . . . X . . |
$$ | . . O O X X O O . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . . . O O . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . . O . . . . . , . . . . . X . . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . O . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . X . . . . . |
$$ | . . . O . . . . . X . . . . X X X . . |
$$ | . . . . . X . . . . . . . O . O O O . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ +---------------------------------------+[/go]

And I would probably die a horrible death, e.g.:
Click Here To Show Diagram Code
[go]$$Wcm1
$$ +---------------------------------------+
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . O . . . . . . . . . X O O . . . . |
$$ | . X 1 . O O O O . . . . X X . O O O . |
$$ | . . X 4 . X X O O X . . . . . X X O . |
$$ | . 2 3 X X X X X O X . . . . . . . X . |
$$ | . 5 O X B . X O X X . . . . . . X . . |
$$ | . . O O X X O O . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . . . O O . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . . O . . . . . , . . . . . X . . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . O . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . X . . . . . |
$$ | . . . O . . . . . X . . . . X X X . . |
$$ | . . . . . X . . . . . . . O . O O O . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ +---------------------------------------+[/go]

Then I realised that I can afford to lose E13, if I gain two sure eyes in the corner.

If white takes:
Click Here To Show Diagram Code
[go]$$Wcm1
$$ +---------------------------------------+
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . B O 2 . . . . . . . . X O O . . . . |
$$ | . X . . O O O O . . . . X X . O O O . |
$$ | . . X , . X X O O X . . . . . X X O . |
$$ | . . . X X X X X O X . . . . . . . X . |
$$ | . . O X 1 O X O X X . . . . . . X . . |
$$ | . . O O . . O O . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . . . O O . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . . O . . . . . , . . . . . X . . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . O . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . X . . . . . |
$$ | . . . O . . . . . X . . . . X X X . . |
$$ | . . . . . X . . . . . . . O . O O O . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ +---------------------------------------+[/go]

should be sufficient

If white protects:

Click Here To Show Diagram Code
[go]$$Wcm1
$$ +---------------------------------------+
$$ | . 4 . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . B O 1 . . . . . . . . X O O . . . . |
$$ | . X . . O O O O . . . . X X . O O O . |
$$ | . . X , . X X O O X . . . . . X X O . |
$$ | . 3 . X X X X X O X . . . . . . . X . |
$$ | . . O X 2 . X O X X . . . . . . X . . |
$$ | . . O O X X O O . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . . . O O . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . . O . . . . . , . . . . . X . . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . O . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . X . . . . . |
$$ | . . . O . . . . . X . . . . X X X . . |
$$ | . . . . . X . . . . . . . O . O O O . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ +---------------------------------------+[/go]

I can take and make second eye in the corner

I think this is the best try by white:


Click Here To Show Diagram Code
[go]$$Wcm1
$$ +---------------------------------------+
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . B O 5 . . . . . . . . X O O . . . . |
$$ | . X 6 4 O O O O . . . . X X . O O O . |
$$ | . . X 1 7 X X O O X . . . . . X X O . |
$$ | . 0 2 X X X X X O X . . . . . . . X . |
$$ | . 8 O X 3 O X O X X . . . . . . X . . |
$$ | . 9 O O . . O O . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . . . O O . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . . O . . . . . , . . . . . X . . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . O . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . X . . . . . |
$$ | . . . O . . . . . X . . . . X X X . . |
$$ | . . . . . X . . . . . . . O . O O O . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ +---------------------------------------+[/go]

And I should be alive.

I think whites last move was a mistake. Let's hope I haven't misread again.

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Offline Adanux
 Post subject: Re: #211 Adanux vs. tj86430
Post #74 Posted: Thu Jul 18, 2013 10:28 pm 
Dies in gote

Posts: 60
Liked others: 2
Was liked: 0
Click Here To Show Diagram Code
[go]$$Wcm58 captures: :w1:
$$ +---------------------------------------+
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . 6 O . . . . . . . . . X O O . . . . |
$$ | . X 7 . O O O O . . . . X X . O O O . |
$$ | . . X , . X X O O X . . . . . X X O . |
$$ | . . . X X X X X O X . . . . . . . X . |
$$ | . . O X . O X O X X . . . . . . X . . |
$$ | . . O O X X O O . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . . . O O . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . . O . . . . . , . . . . . X . . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . O . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . X . . . . . |
$$ | . . . O . . . . . X . . . . X X X . . |
$$ | . . . . . X . . . . . . . O . O O O . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ +---------------------------------------+[/go]


Sometimes I feel like this malkovitch game is filled with mirages. I'll spent half an hour reading out variations and be confident in a great result only to come back later wondering what the hell I was thinking for missing an obvious move that ruins the whole sequence. If my reading is correct, black's D15 group is dead but he will be able to live small and in gote on the left side by giving those stones up. This result seems fantastic for black, and far better than anything I deserved when I played my forcing move at F14. Hopefully this isn't another mirage.
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Offline tj86430
 Post subject: Re: #211 Adanux vs. tj86430
Post #75 Posted: Tue Jul 23, 2013 1:43 am 
Gosei

Posts: 1348
Location: Finland
Liked others: 49
Was liked: 129
Rank: FGA 7k GoR 1297
Click Here To Show Diagram Code
[go]$$Wcm58 captures: :w1:
$$ +---------------------------------------+
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . X O . . . . . . . . . X O O . . . . |
$$ | . X O . O O O O . . . . X X . O O O . |
$$ | . . X , . X X O O X . . . . . X X O . |
$$ | . . . X X X X X O X . . . . . . . X . |
$$ | . . O X . O X O X X . . . . . . X . . |
$$ | . . O O X X O O . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . . . O O . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . 8 . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . . O . . . . . , . . . . . X . . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . O . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . X . . . . . |
$$ | . . . O . . . . . X . . . . X X X . . |
$$ | . . . . . X . . . . . . . O . O O O . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ +---------------------------------------+[/go]


As painful as it is, I have to admit that I had misread (or, what would be even more painful, I misread now). My corner dragon is dead, and I can't even find a ko or partial life against optimal play by my opponent.

However, I think that all is not lost. I still have a sizeable moyo on the right, and I think the first priority is to strengthen it. I don't know what the best move is, but this looks quite natural.

The corner group also has some aji left in them, e.g. I think this may well be sente:

Click Here To Show Diagram Code
[go]$$Wcm58 captures: :w1:
$$ +---------------------------------------+
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . X O . . . . . . . . . X O O . . . . |
$$ | . X O . O O O O . B . . X X . O O O . |
$$ | . . X , . X X O O X . . . . . X X O . |
$$ | . . . X X X X X O X . . . . . . . X . |
$$ | . . O X . O X O X X . . . . . . X . . |
$$ | . . O O X X O O . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . . . O O . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . . O . . . . . , . . . . . X . . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . O . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . X . . . . . |
$$ | . . . O . . . . . X . . . . X X X . . |
$$ | . . . . . X . . . . . . . O . O O O . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ +---------------------------------------+[/go]

If white ignores, his top left group may come under severe attack and possibly die (it's very complicated, I haven't even tried to read the variations, but at least some continuations look promising).

Also, white has to be careful with his three stones at H13, because at some point my E14 may threaten to either make to eyes or break out by cutting at G12.

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Offline Adanux
 Post subject: Re: #211 Adanux vs. tj86430
Post #76 Posted: Sun Jul 28, 2013 1:20 am 
Dies in gote

Posts: 60
Liked others: 2
Was liked: 0
Click Here To Show Diagram Code
[go]$$Wcm58 captures: :w1:
$$ +---------------------------------------+
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . X O . . . . . . . . . X O O . . . . |
$$ | . X O . O O O O . . . . X X . O O O . |
$$ | . . X , . X X O O X . . . . . X X O . |
$$ | . . . X X X X X O X . . . . . . . X . |
$$ | . . O X . O X O X X . . . . . . X . . |
$$ | . . O O X X O O . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . . . O O . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . 8 . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . . O . . . 9 . , . . . . . X . . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . O . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . X . . . . . |
$$ | . . . O . . . . . X . . . . X X X . . |
$$ | . . . . . X . . . . . . . O . O O O . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ +---------------------------------------+[/go]


If I were an observer, or my opponents position and mine were swapped, I would say this game is over. However, since I'm playing, I know that's definitely not guaranteed :lol: , and the fact that my opponent is still playing means he agrees. My main goal now is to play as calmly as possible. Even though his center looks potentially massive, I can play conservatively, give him a little more than he deserves, and likely still get a double digit win. I'll probably have to start seriously counting though to make sure that I don't accidentally throw away a won game.
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Offline tj86430
 Post subject: Re: #211 Adanux vs. tj86430
Post #77 Posted: Sat Aug 03, 2013 1:33 pm 
Gosei

Posts: 1348
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Rank: FGA 7k GoR 1297
Click Here To Show Diagram Code
[go]$$Bcm67 captures: :w1:
$$ +---------------------------------------+
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . X O . . . . . . . . . X O O . . . . |
$$ | . X O . O O O O . . . . X X . O O O . |
$$ | . . X , . X X O O X . . . . . X X O . |
$$ | . . . X X X X X O X . . . . . . . X . |
$$ | . . O X . O X O X X . . . . . . X . . |
$$ | . . O O X X O O . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . . . O O . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . X . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . . O . . . O . , . . . . . X . . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . 1 . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . O . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . X . . . . . |
$$ | . . . O . . . . . X . . . . X X X . . |
$$ | . . . . . X . . . . . . . O . O O O . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ +---------------------------------------+[/go]


I really don't know what's best here. I'm probably a bit behind (I might be a lot, I'll attempt a count later), so I try to push the boundary of our moyos a bit to his side.


I'm traveling, and the connection seems to be bad, so I may not make any moves for a week or so.

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Offline Adanux
 Post subject: Re: #211 Adanux vs. tj86430
Post #78 Posted: Tue Aug 13, 2013 5:16 pm 
Dies in gote

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Click Here To Show Diagram Code
[go]$$Bcm67 captures: :w1:
$$ +---------------------------------------+
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . X O . . . . . . . . . X O O . . . . |
$$ | . X O . O O O O . . . . X X . O O O . |
$$ | . . X , . X X O O X . . . . . X X O . |
$$ | . . . X X X X X O X . . . . . . . X . |
$$ | . . O X . O X O X X . . . . . . X . . |
$$ | . . O O X X O O . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . . . O O . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . X . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . . O . . . O . , . . . . . X . . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . 1 . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . O . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . 2 |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . X . . . . . |
$$ | . . . O . . . . . X . . . . X X X . . |
$$ | . . . . . X . . . . . . . O . O O O . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ +---------------------------------------+[/go]


This part of the game is very complicated and I doubt I could correctly analyze this position even if I had time to try. Instead, I'll give some random thoughts on the game.

I like my opponent's last move and it is where I would have played if I was him. However, it's not sente to bring the upper left back to life so I'm free to play a big point elsewhere on the board. I chose the monkey jump because I always enjoy playing monkey jumps and this one is especially powerful since the right side is so open. I'll be curious to see how he responds, since he'll need to find a way to limit the damage and keep sente if he wants to stay in this game, but I don't think that will be easy to do. Alternatively, he could tenuki and try his luck somewhere else, but that will lead to a huge loss in what would have been his territory. Ultimately, my opponent is in a tough spot since I don't have any weak groups that will be easy to exploit. Reversing games usually happens by exploiting your opponents weakness for massive profit but that seems like it will be very hard in this case.

Assuming he does respond to my monkey jump and I come away with sente, I'll probably enclose the lower left corner. If that happens, I may have enough points on the board to win the same without having to worry about reducing him.
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Offline tj86430
 Post subject: Re: #211 Adanux vs. tj86430
Post #79 Posted: Tue Aug 27, 2013 10:24 am 
Gosei

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Again, deeply sorry for the delay. I will be able to concentrate on this early next month.

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Offline Adanux
 Post subject: Re: #211 Adanux vs. tj86430
Post #80 Posted: Fri Aug 30, 2013 3:20 pm 
Dies in gote

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Not a problem, take as much time as you need.

I like having the last comment on this thread. It makes checking if my opponent has made a move much easier ;-)
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