Guess I died big . However, I get sente and a huge amount of influence, in exchange for... 50 points... . Guess I was too clever for my own good. But it's not necessarily a lost game yet I think, so I won't resign here. Maybe I should... I'm stubborn though.
I think I overlooked something big. I won't resign here. Maybe I should...
I have to admit, without access to pro games, I'd be freaking out, too, in this position ... kind of like in my game against EdLee several moves back. I'll post some variations over the weekend.
_________________ Ontological imperative holds that my losses occurred only in imagination.
okay, I did a lot of reading that will probably have no use because it's probably all wrong. I saw this move after staring at his answer for a bit, it looks way more fun O:.
He has responses at a, b, c, d, and e. If he plays e, then I'll just save those three stones, so not so bad.
[go]$$Wcm22 Captures: B=0 W=0 $$ --------------------------------------- $$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . X . | $$ | . . . . . . . . . . . 4 1 O X . X O O | $$ | . . . . . . . . . . 3 2 X O X . X X O | $$ | . . . O . . . . . , . O X O O X X O O | $$ | . . . . . . . . . . . O X X X O O O . | $$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . O . X X O X . | $$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . O O X X . | $$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . | $$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . X . . | $$ | . . . , . . . . . , . . . . . , . . . | $$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . | $$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . | $$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . | $$ | . . O . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . | $$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . | $$ | . . . O . . . . . , . . . . . , X . . | $$ | . . . . . X . . . . X . . . . . . . . | $$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . | $$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . | $$ ---------------------------------------[/go]
If he plays b, then a ko happens, but I can ignore any ko threat and I take first, so this isn't good for him. If he doesn't ko, then I have enough liberties to capture him anyway.
If he plays here, then I take his stone, I have enough liberties to kill him and the loose ladder doesn't work because the marked stones don't have enough liberties.
I'm still really surprised graemy didn't take R17 instead of S13. Maybe graemy prefers not to play against such influence? I think I would definitely prefer that variation to this one as black. just seems to be using ko threats, unless graemy plans on using the aji immediately. I'm very confused... I suppose I just have to wait and see where black chooses to spend sente.
_________________ "It has cost me much, but I have learned... Lemon need not squeeze lemon to survive..!"
Hmm... Maybe graemy plans to lean on my top stones? Nothing I've read into that seems bad for white, although as the observers have probably already seen, my reading is clearly not sufficient in avoiding danger...
_________________ "It has cost me much, but I have learned... Lemon need not squeeze lemon to survive..!"
[go]$$Bcm35 Captures: B=0 W=0\n\n I don't get many points, but I do get sente here, which I think is crucial at this point. $$ --------------------------------------- $$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . | $$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . W . 2 X O O . | $$ | . . . . . . . . . . . 1 X O O X O X . | $$ | . . . O . . . . . , . . O X O X X O . | $$ | . . . . . . . . . . . 3 . X X O O O . | $$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . X X O . . | $$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . O X X . | $$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . | $$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . X . . | $$ | . . . , . . . . . , . . . . . , . . . | $$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . | $$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . | $$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . | $$ | . . O . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . | $$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . | $$ | . . . O . . . . . , . . . . . , X . . | $$ | . . . . . X . . . . X . . . . . . . . | $$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . | $$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . | $$ ---------------------------------------[/go]
The other variations I read give me a lot more points, but graemy builds the Great Wall of China through the middle of the board, and I'd just stake the entire game on a crazy invasion, which might not even be enough.
_________________ "It has cost me much, but I have learned... Lemon need not squeeze lemon to survive..!"
I feel good about this game after getting this result. I'm unsure of the choices he's made and I know mine haven't been too good. Either way, this is the game we have.
I am finding this game hard to concentrate on, I don't think correspondence games are exactly to my liking. I feel an inconsistent quality coming from myself. I much more enjoy sitting down and playing out a game in one go.
[go]$$Bcm18 $$ --------------------------------------- $$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . 6 3 . . | $$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . 2 1 . . | $$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . O . O X X . | $$ | . . . O . . . . . 8 . . . O O X X O 7 | $$ | . . . . . . . . . . . O O X X O O O . | $$ | . . . . . . . . . . . X X X X X O . . | $$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . X O O X X . | $$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . O . O O X | $$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . O . O X | $$ | . . . , . . . . . , . . . . . , O X . | $$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . O X . | $$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . 4 X . | $$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . 5 . | $$ | . . O . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . | $$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . | $$ | . . . O . . . . . , . . . . . , X . . | $$ | . . . . . X . . . . X . . . . . . . . | $$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . | $$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . | $$ ---------------------------------------[/go]
There are slight variations possible in the above sequence, but the conclusion is the same. White and Black got approximately the same amount of points in the top right quadrant; White has several big ko threats in the top right, making ko fights favorable for him; White has a living group inside of Black's sphere of influence, making it difficult for Black to build a moyo; White has no such obstacles toward expanding his territory on the left and on top. Black is strategically lost.
2. Second, a simple extension vs. Black's second hane in the game:
If White does not respond to (and similarly ), he gets confined in sente, with a thick position for Black. White does not have tenuki moves big enough to compensate for such a loss.
[go]$$Bcm3 $$ ------------------------- $$ . . . . . . . . . . . . | $$ . . . . . . 3 2 X O O . | $$ . . . . . 1 O O X O X . | $$ . . , . . X X O X X O . | $$ . . . . . . . X O O O . | $$ . . . . . . . X X O . . | $$ . . . . . . . . O X X . | $$ . . . . . . . . . . . . | $$ . . . . . . . . . X . . | $$ . . , . . . . . , . . . |[/go]
In the final position, Black's moyo may look very threatening, but White got about 25 points of solid territory in the top-right, and he can still quite easily set his cutting stone in motion:
Black pressed White down lower than before and is threatening to cut White's group off from the left side, but he gave up sente for it. White might next invade at "a," for instance. Moreover, White can still set his stone in motion:
Therefore, the conclusion is that Black should have simply extended instead of playing double-hane.
3. Why this variation is not seen in professional play except in rare situations:
I believe that the reason this variation is not seen in professional practice very frequently is that pros dislike giving lots of solid territory to their opponents. Pros are so strong at invading and running with weak groups that even very scary-looking moyos, such as the ones above, may provide inadequate compensation for the gifted solid points.
However, there are special circumstances where this variation is viable. For instance, in the game Tan Xiao(b) vs. Luo Xihe (2010), after playing the forced few moves, White chose the simple atari with , following it up with a brilliant move :62:.
[go]$$Wcm60 $$ --------------------------------------- $$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . | $$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . | $$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . X . 5 2 O . | $$ | . . . X . . . . . , . . . . X O O X . | $$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . O X X X . | $$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . O O X . . | $$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . X O . . | $$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . 1 . . . | $$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . O . . | $$ | . . . O . . . . . , . . . . 4 , . . . | $$ | . . X . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . | $$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . X X . 3 . | $$ | . . O . O . . . . . . . . . O X . . . | $$ | . . . . . O . . . . . . . O . O X X . | $$ | . X . X . . . . . . . . O . O . O X . | $$ | . . . , . O . . . , . X X O O O . O . | $$ | . . . X O . . . . . X . O X O . O . . | $$ | . . . X . . . . . . . . X X . . . . . | $$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . | $$ ---------------------------------------[/go]
Suddenly, it became clear that, if Black responds to , his group on the right will have no eyes and no place to run to. Because of this Black allowed White to reclaim the corner, resulting in a big trade, which looks about even to me (see Edit below).
[go]$$Bcm71 $$ --------------------------------------- $$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . | $$ | . . . . . . . . . . 6 . . . . . O . . | $$ | . . . . . . . . 5 . . . . X . O . O . | $$ | . . . X . . . . . , 4 . . . X O O X . | $$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . 2 . O X X X . | $$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . O O X . . | $$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . O X X O 1 . | $$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . O X O 3 . . | $$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . X . O . . | $$ | . . . O . . . . . , . . . . X , . . . | $$ | . . X . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . | $$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . X X . O . | $$ | . . O . O . . . . . . . . . O X . . . | $$ | . . . . . O . . . . . . . O . O X X . | $$ | . X . X . . . . . . . . O . O . O X . | $$ | . . . , . O . . . , . X X O O O . O . | $$ | . . . X O . . . . . X . O X O . O . . | $$ | . . . X . . . . . . . . X X . . . . . | $$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . | $$ ---------------------------------------[/go]
Edit:
In the resulting position from the pro game I cites, White still has the following sequence (which captures three Black stones), so the trade was good for White:
hmmm, I don't know about this move. It's not like I would have taken another turn to capture this stone. If he moves them out then I think it's a mistake, but he'll probably just treat it as a forcing move. Okay then. My stones are strong, but they're not as strong as they need to be. I think they can fend for themselves though.
Users browsing this forum: Google [Bot] and 1 guest
You cannot post new topics in this forum You cannot reply to topics in this forum You cannot edit your posts in this forum You cannot delete your posts in this forum You cannot post attachments in this forum
Login
Register
FAQ
Search
uriel
. However, I get sente and a huge amount of influence, in exchange for... 50 points... 
. Guess I was too clever for my own good. But it's not necessarily a lost game yet I think, so I won't resign here. Maybe I should... I'm stubborn though.
I have to admit, without access to pro games, I'd be freaking out, too, in this position ... kind of like in my game against EdLee several moves back. 
I'll post some variations over the weekend.
just seems to be using ko threats, unless graemy plans on using the aji immediately. I'm very confused... 
I suppose I just have to wait and see where black chooses to spend sente.
(and similarly 
), he gets confined in sente, with a thick position for Black. White does not have tenuki moves big enough to compensate for such a loss.
, following it up with a brilliant move :62:.
, his group on the right will have no eyes and no place to run to. Because of this Black allowed White to reclaim the corner, resulting in a big trade, which looks about even to me (see Edit below).