#222 Kayres vs. Otenki

lightvector
Lives in sente
Posts: 759
Joined: Sat Jun 19, 2010 10:11 pm
Rank: maybe 2d
GD Posts: 0
Has thanked: 114 times
Been thanked: 916 times

Re: #222 Kayres vs. Otenki

Post by lightvector »

Kayres wrote:and also, if he blocks, I have a cut. I think the cut is quite severe

Click Here To Show Diagram Code
[go]$$Wcm26
$$ ---------------------------------------
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . . X . X . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . X , . . . . . , . . . . . X . . . |
$$ | . . X O . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . O O . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . O , . . . . . , . . . . . , . . . |
$$ | . . . X . . . . . . . . . . . b . . . |
$$ | . O . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . 1 X X O . . a . . . . . . . X . . . |
$$ | 9 2 3 4 . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . 7 5 6 . . . . . . . . . . . . . O . |
$$ | . 8 X , O . . X . , . . . O X X . . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . O O O . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ ---------------------------------------[/go]



Actually, directly cutting like this to capture the stone on the edge is not severe at all. It's very good for black. In exchange for only a few points on the edge, white has given himself a disastrously broken shape, with his two outside stones uselessly smashed right against black's powerful wall.

Click Here To Show Diagram Code
[go]$$Wcm26
$$ ---------------------------------------
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . . X . X . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . X , . . . . . , . . . . . X . . . |
$$ | . . X O . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . O O . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . O , . . . . . , . . . . . , . . . |
$$ | . . . X . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . O . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . O X X W . . . . . . . . . . X . . . |
$$ | O . O X . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . O O X . . . . . . . . . . . . . O . |
$$ | . X X 0 W . . X . , . . . O X X . . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . O O O . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ ---------------------------------------[/go]
User avatar
otenki
Lives in gote
Posts: 415
Joined: Wed Jan 04, 2012 9:41 am
Rank: EGF 2k
GD Posts: 0
Universal go server handle: tygempanda
Location: Antwerp, Belgium
Has thanked: 43 times
Been thanked: 32 times

Re: #222 Kayres vs. Otenki

Post by otenki »

Click Here To Show Diagram Code
[go]$$Wcm26
$$ ---------------------------------------
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . . X . X . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . X , . . . . . , . . . . . X . . . |
$$ | . . X O . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . O O . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . O , . . . . . , . . . . . , . . . |
$$ | . . . X . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . O . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . 1 X X O . . . . . . . . . . X . . . |
$$ | . 2 . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . O . |
$$ | . . X , O . . X . , . . . O X X . . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . O O O . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ ---------------------------------------[/go]


So I thought about this move for quite some time.

Some issue because sente is big right now and I cannot really have it. I think I need to play gote.
The reason I need to play gote is to keep my oponent from taking points in sente by harassing my shape on the bottom left.
Yes I think i will defend so that later I can get a big area here.

If he takes sente to play lightly in this area to reduce me then I can take bigger sente elsewhere on the board or attack his group.
In the other case where he now takes big sente, to attack my right group on a large scale while reducing my later potential for a moyo I will try to defend it and gain sente out of it. This way I get to enlarge the bottom left.

I'm fine in both scenarios howhever I think it is biggest for him to now take big sente by attacking my group on the right.

Lets see what he does :-)
User avatar
otenki
Lives in gote
Posts: 415
Joined: Wed Jan 04, 2012 9:41 am
Rank: EGF 2k
GD Posts: 0
Universal go server handle: tygempanda
Location: Antwerp, Belgium
Has thanked: 43 times
Been thanked: 32 times

Re: #222 Kayres vs. Otenki

Post by otenki »

We are still playing this malkovich right ?

I just wanted to let you know that I will be out of internet reach for about 8 days.

Talk to you soon :-)

Cheers,
Otenki
Kayres
Dies in gote
Posts: 65
Joined: Wed Oct 13, 2010 11:20 am
Rank: kgs 2k
GD Posts: 0
Has thanked: 5 times

Re: #222 Kayres vs. Otenki

Post by Kayres »

sorry otenki! and sorry to everyone who was following the game. I had major issues with my inet provider so I was completely cut off from here. to be honest though, if I tried hard I had inet access, ist was just that other personal things had a higher priority. sorry again! I hope something like this won't happen again and we will be playing the game until the end.

alright guys I'm back. the moves I have been thinking about.. I don't know, I don't like the board for white very much. his stone at H4 really is a very nice one. it limits my game drastically. anyway, I think I have to do something about my left group before I plan to do something with his group on the right.I think checking his extension is the best move I have. it's huge for him and for me


Click Here To Show Diagram Code
[go]$$Wcm28
$$ ---------------------------------------
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . . X . X . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . X , . . . . . , . . . . . X . . . |
$$ | . . X O . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . O O . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . O , . . . . . , . . . . . , . . . |
$$ | . . . X . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . O . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . O X X O . . . . . . . . . . X . . . |
$$ | . X . . . . . 1 . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . O . |
$$ | . . X , O . . X . , . . . O X X . . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . O O O . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ ---------------------------------------[/go]
User avatar
otenki
Lives in gote
Posts: 415
Joined: Wed Jan 04, 2012 9:41 am
Rank: EGF 2k
GD Posts: 0
Universal go server handle: tygempanda
Location: Antwerp, Belgium
Has thanked: 43 times
Been thanked: 32 times

Re: #222 Kayres vs. Otenki

Post by otenki »

No problems :-)

Click Here To Show Diagram Code
[go]$$Wcm28
$$ ---------------------------------------
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . . X . X . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . X , . . . . . , . . . . . X . . . |
$$ | . . X O . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . O O . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . O , . . . . . , . . . . . , . . . |
$$ | . . . X . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . O . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . O X X O . . . . . . . . . . X . . . |
$$ | . X . . 2 . . 1 . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . O . |
$$ | . . X , O . . X . , . . . O X X . . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . O O O . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ ---------------------------------------[/go]



I'll try to keep his stones seperated.
If white tries to attack my one stone with his two stones then there are plenty of ways I can reverse the fight.
Kayres
Dies in gote
Posts: 65
Joined: Wed Oct 13, 2010 11:20 am
Rank: kgs 2k
GD Posts: 0
Has thanked: 5 times

Re: #222 Kayres vs. Otenki

Post by Kayres »

in my opinion, with this move, he lost a lot of momentum. this move does not attack me very fiercely and it also does not put any pressure on me. he does strengthen some weaknesses and covers exploits, but the stone he is surrounding now can be treated very lightly by me, especially because I now have H6. I don't even care much about that stone. A much more important stone is the one at E4.

that stone is important not because solely of the placement of it, but because it gives me some presence on the bottom. I can happily sacrifice it for sabaki in order to destroy his bottom. I sill have moves around c3, but I have not come to conclusions there yet.

if you want to know what sabaki and sacrifices I am talking about, please let me know.

I will just hane and see what he wants to do. I have to maintain a light shape and not commit too much, and I tihnk I will be fine.


Click Here To Show Diagram Code
[go]$$Wcm30
$$ ---------------------------------------
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . . X . X . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . X , . . . . . , . . . . . X . . . |
$$ | . . X O . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . O O . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . O , . . . . . , . . . . . , . . . |
$$ | . . . X . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . O . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . O X X O . . . . . . . . . . X . . . |
$$ | . X . . X 1 . O . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . O . |
$$ | . . X , O . . X . , . . . O X X . . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . O O O . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ ---------------------------------------[/go]
User avatar
otenki
Lives in gote
Posts: 415
Joined: Wed Jan 04, 2012 9:41 am
Rank: EGF 2k
GD Posts: 0
Universal go server handle: tygempanda
Location: Antwerp, Belgium
Has thanked: 43 times
Been thanked: 32 times

Re: #222 Kayres vs. Otenki

Post by otenki »

Click Here To Show Diagram Code
[go]$$Wcm30
$$ ---------------------------------------
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . . X . X . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . X , . . . . . , . . . . . X . . . |
$$ | . . X O . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . O O . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . O , . . . . . , . . . . . , . . . |
$$ | . . . X . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . O . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . O X X O 2 . . . . . . . . . X . . . |
$$ | . X . . X 1 . O . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . O . |
$$ | . . X , O . . X . , . . . O X X . . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . O O O . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ ---------------------------------------[/go]


This probably seems like a very bad move howhever I think it is not.
If white counteratari's then I just take. If the white ataris it does not work because I can cut on the right side and the whole group will be dead.
Lets see what he will do against this move.
Kayres
Dies in gote
Posts: 65
Joined: Wed Oct 13, 2010 11:20 am
Rank: kgs 2k
GD Posts: 0
Has thanked: 5 times

Re: #222 Kayres vs. Otenki

Post by Kayres »

Hmm.. I don't know about his move.. It seems like he does not gain anything. Maybe I miss something but now I can connect my 3 stones and I am out of the area, looking pretty safe. additionally, he has no big corner because of my E4 stone. also, his stone at H4 is going to be under attack soon, if he does not reinforce.

so what is going to happen next?


a) if he does not take, the stretch I can do at a is pretty fierce, in my opinion. it seems to be not that strong now, but I think its good aji for later. it does enclose the center very well. I can run upwards. I think if a fight occurs, I have some advantage. but that move needs to be played later and at the right time. not now.

b) this is the move I am thinking about if he captures at a. if he does not reinforce his stone there now, I think this is a good move I have. It attacks his stone, which has not a base because it is on the 4th line, and works well with my stones on the bottom right corner. b and d are crucial moves for me.

c) this is what leaves him with pretty much nothing. the only thing he wouldve gained would be the ponnuki at E7. I am strong on the left side, I dont fear any invades because his stones are too far away. as for the bottom side, I will have to run away from the ponnuki, to the right. b is extremely important.

d) this move will work very well with b. I am not sure if I can get both the moves, but if he does take the ponnuki, I will play b, press him down, make him play defensive moves, and then play d. I am sure this will work.

Click Here To Show Diagram Code
[go]$$Wcm32
$$ ---------------------------------------
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . . X . X . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . X , . . . . . , . . . . . X . . . |
$$ | . . X O . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . O O . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . O , . . . . . , . . . . . , . . . |
$$ | . . . X . . . . . . . . . . . d . . . |
$$ | . O . . a . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . O X X O X . . . . . . . . . X . . . |
$$ | . X . . X O . O . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . . . . 1 . . . b . . . . . . . O . |
$$ | . . X , O . . X . , . . . O X X . . . |
$$ | . . c . . . . . . . . . . . O O O . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ ---------------------------------------[/go]


Click Here To Show Diagram Code
[go]$$Wcm32
$$ ---------------------------------------
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . . X . X . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . X , . . . . . , . . . . . X . . . |
$$ | . . X O . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . O O . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . O , . . . . . , . . . . . , . . . |
$$ | . . . X . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . O . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . O X X O X . . . . . . . . . X . . . |
$$ | . X . . X O . O . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . . . . 1 . . . . . . . . . . . O . |
$$ | . . X , O . . X . , . . . O X X . . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . O O O . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ ---------------------------------------[/go]
User avatar
otenki
Lives in gote
Posts: 415
Joined: Wed Jan 04, 2012 9:41 am
Rank: EGF 2k
GD Posts: 0
Universal go server handle: tygempanda
Location: Antwerp, Belgium
Has thanked: 43 times
Been thanked: 32 times

Re: #222 Kayres vs. Otenki

Post by otenki »

Click Here To Show Diagram Code
[go]$$Wcm32
$$ ---------------------------------------
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . . X . X . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . X , . . . . . , . . . . . X . . . |
$$ | . . X O . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . O O . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . O , . . . . . , . . . . . , . . . |
$$ | . . . X . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . O . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . O X X O X . . . . . . . . . X . . . |
$$ | . X . . X O . O . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . . . . 1 . . . . . . . . . . . O . |
$$ | . . X , O . . X . , . . . O X X . . . |
$$ | . . . . . 2 . . . . . . . . O O O . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ ---------------------------------------[/go]


I've misread my previous position, let's fix my shape on the bottom.
Kayres
Dies in gote
Posts: 65
Joined: Wed Oct 13, 2010 11:20 am
Rank: kgs 2k
GD Posts: 0
Has thanked: 5 times

Re: #222 Kayres vs. Otenki

Post by Kayres »

Click Here To Show Diagram Code
[go]$$Wcm34
$$ ---------------------------------------
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . . X . X . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . X , . . . . . , . . . . . X . . . |
$$ | . . X O . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . O O . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . O , . . . . . , . . . . . , . . . |
$$ | . . . X . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . O . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . O X X O X . . . . . . . . . X . . . |
$$ | . X . . X O . O . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . . . . O . . . . . . . . . . . O . |
$$ | . . X , O . . X . , . . . O X X . . . |
$$ | . . . . 1 X . . . . . . . . O O O . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ ---------------------------------------[/go]



he has just taken away his eyespace in his corner. my stretch at E8 is now even more powerful. If he decides to attack this group I will run or try to settle in the bottom left corner. I don't think he can attack me effectively or capture the group.
User avatar
otenki
Lives in gote
Posts: 415
Joined: Wed Jan 04, 2012 9:41 am
Rank: EGF 2k
GD Posts: 0
Universal go server handle: tygempanda
Location: Antwerp, Belgium
Has thanked: 43 times
Been thanked: 32 times

Re: #222 Kayres vs. Otenki

Post by otenki »

I'm so sorry that I did not reply earlier.

I'm normally subscribed to this threat but I did not get the email very weird !

Currently however I don't have the bandwidth to continue with this malko because I'm in china (studying go) and I have to do so much tsumego and joseki per day that I don't get time to think about this.

So I'll resign or if you prefer we can continue when I'm back (10 th of november).

Cheers,
Otenki
Kayres
Dies in gote
Posts: 65
Joined: Wed Oct 13, 2010 11:20 am
Rank: kgs 2k
GD Posts: 0
Has thanked: 5 times

Re: #222 Kayres vs. Otenki

Post by Kayres »

ok it's ur turn yo :D
Post Reply