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 Post subject: Hello Everyone!
Post #1 Posted: Sat Nov 09, 2013 11:44 am 
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Hi Everyone,

My name is John and I live in a small town in Georgia. I’m a huge fan of Japanese culture and was lured in by Manga and Anime. Slowly over the years my interests have expanded and I find myself wanting to learn more about anything related to the Japanese culture.

On the gaming front I started off playing Richii Mahjong, it’s fun but I wanted something with a little more strategy and less luck. I thought about Shogi, but it seems to have less of a presence than either Go or Mahjong. Go seems fun and I was able to find an Anime/Manga that introduced me to it (much like I did with Mahjong – Saki anyone?).

Needless to say it sounds like a game I would like to learn, perhaps teach it to my wife and girls. We sure could use something like this to have more ‘family’ time. I love the elegant look of it, the sophistication and the strategic depth I’ve read it can provide. Not to mention easy to learn.

I do have a few questions I want to ask that I have not seen yet.

1. Are the rules for Go the same between the Chinese, Japanese and Korean versions?
2. Is there an good Android app for playing Go?
3. Would any of you recommend a PC Go program so that I could play with others?

That’s mainly it (for now lol). Living out in the middle of nowhere makes it hard to find anyone with an interest like this and if the wife and kids don’t go for it (Pun not intended), I’ll need a back up.

Anyway, Hello again and I hope to make a few friends here,
Rowen (aka John)


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 Post subject: Re: Hello Everyone!
Post #2 Posted: Sat Nov 09, 2013 12:44 pm 
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Rowen wrote:
I do have a few questions I want to ask that I have not seen yet.

1. Are the rules for Go the same between the Chinese, Japanese and Korean versions?
2. Is there an good Android app for playing Go?
3. Would any of you recommend a PC Go program so that I could play with others?


1. The rules are similar but not the same. As far as I know, all have the same definition of liberties and do not allow suicide. The main difference is how you count after the game has ended. See Area Scoring and Territory Scoring. There are also some freak life-and-death subtleties but I guess you don't need to bother with this right now. Since you live in the US, I can also recommend checking out the AGA rules, which are mainly used in US tournaments.
2. There are some. KGS is the app for the largest western Go server and I also like Gobandroid and GOdroid.
3. You can try http://gokgs.com. There you can play online for free. It's also the largest western Go server.

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 Post subject: Re: Hello Everyone!
Post #3 Posted: Sat Nov 09, 2013 12:57 pm 
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Thanks for those links, Ill check them out and bookmark them.

I got a few apps last night but one crashes during start up and the other has a clunky UI, its called PandaTetsuke. The third was more of a rule book and I'm not sure Ill even keep it.

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Post #4 Posted: Sat Nov 09, 2013 1:24 pm 
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Rowen wrote:
it sounds like a game I would like to learn, perhaps teach it to my wife and girls. We sure could use something like this to have more ‘family’ time.

Wow, so your idea to increase the time you spend with your family is to start an extremely time consuming hobby?
I don't want to be too negative about it, but I think that's a pretty illusory line of thinking. I would expect that you will spent significantly less time with your family if you take up go and take it even half-seriously.

Just putting it out there.


edit: Also, welcome to the forums from Germany!

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 Post subject: Re: Hello Everyone!
Post #5 Posted: Sat Nov 09, 2013 1:36 pm 
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Can't any hobby be time consuming? Sitting down for a family game night and to have fun with said game is spending time with them. I'm not talking about playing as a Pro but something that you can grow with the more you play. My main idea was to get everyone out from in front of the computer/ipod/ipad and sit down for a fun family activity. I think that's doable if done correctly.

And thanks for the welcome. :D

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Post #6 Posted: Sat Nov 09, 2013 2:11 pm 
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1. (has already been answered, but since I'm doing 2 and 3) Learning any single one won't cripple you, though I'd recommend an area-scoring method, like Chinese or AGA, if you're trying to teach family to play with you.

2. Crazystone is a great droid app. KGS is a great app too, but you can't just pick it up when you have a few moments. All games on KGS are against other people, and they'll frown on leaving when if you get bored or need to put down the phone. The KGS app is more expensive than many other apps, so I would wait until you know what you're getting.

3. On the comp, KGS is definitely the place to go for a new english-speaking player. You can find teachers and players of your level, and folks are more than willing to offer advice and review. There are also others, like IGS, Tygem, WBaduk, but you'll find very little communication with players on those servers. Those sites are really just for playing, and less for learning.

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Post #7 Posted: Sat Nov 09, 2013 2:30 pm 
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I would also recommend checking if there's a go club near you (if you haven't done so already). Playing in person was for me always much more fun than playing online.
The homepage of the American Go Association (AGA) has a list of go clubs, I believe.

edit: wait, is Georgia = "Georgien" in German? Hm, I just thought it was some US state. Well, I'd still recommend trying to find out if there are any go clubs near you, but I have no ideas on how to do that in this case ^^

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Post #8 Posted: Sat Nov 09, 2013 6:56 pm 
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Hi John, welcome! :)

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Post #9 Posted: Sat Nov 09, 2013 7:25 pm 
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Rowen wrote:
Hi Everyone,

My name is John and I live in a small town in Georgia. I’m a huge fan of Japanese culture and was lured in by Manga and Anime. Slowly over the years my interests have expanded and I find myself wanting to learn more about anything related to the Japanese culture.

On the gaming front I started off playing Richii Mahjong, it’s fun but I wanted something with a little more strategy and less luck. I thought about Shogi, but it seems to have less of a presence than either Go or Mahjong. Go seems fun and I was able to find an Anime/Manga that introduced me to it (much like I did with Mahjong – Saki anyone?).
Welcome to LifeIn19x19.com !

Shōgi is a lot like Chess, but with a twist. The "drop rule". Under certain circumstances (all of which can be counted on one hand), you can get a captured piece, put it back on the board, and use it as one of your own pieces. If you are an avid Chess fan, shōgi will appeal to you.

Go is a game with very simple rules, but limitless possibilities. However, once you capture a piece, you cannot put it back on the board - at least until the game is over. If you have an inner artist or philosopher that you would like to let out, Go is the perfect game for you. This is one game that generously repays serious study - and you can still have fun even if you don't study so hard.

Quote:
Needless to say it sounds like a game I would like to learn, perhaps teach it to my wife and girls. We sure could use something like this to have more ‘family’ time. I love the elegant look of it, the sophistication and the strategic depth I’ve read it can provide. Not to mention easy to learn.
You will not regret learning Go! If you have a deep interest in Japanese culture, Go will help you to understand it in a way that you may have not understood it before. This game has had a deep influence upon Japanese culture for centuries. When Go was introduced to Japan in the Asuka period (600s AD), only royalty played the game. After the Heian period the game spread to the nobility and samurai (warrior class). By the 1200s Go was widely known among samurai and religious clergy (Shintō priests and Buddhist clergy). By the Edo era the merchant class had access to the game. It's not until early in the 20th century that Go is accessible to almost all Japanese.

Among the Japanese business élite, Go is a well-known game and even informs much of their strategy, even among those who do not play the game. If you look at how Toyota and other Japanese automakers gradually took over starting with the 1973 Oil Crisis, you will see some applications of strategy as it occurs in a game of Go. Troy Anderson's book, The Way of Go: 8 Ancient Strategy Secrets for Success in Business and Life, talks a bit about how the game informs Japanese business philosophy.

The first professional system of Go was established back in the 1600s under the Tokugawa Shōgunate. However, instead of being sponsored by private companies and individuals, as are the pros of today's Go associations, pro Go players in the Japan of the Edo era were sponsored by the government and their affairs were administered by the Godokoro, or Go Minister. This title was conferred by the Commission of Temples and Shrines upon the strongest Go player in Japan and the recipient kept it for life, even exempting him from playing any games which might lead to his being dismissed from the position. Candidates for the position were the strongest players from the Four Go Houses (which were actually Go schools usually associated with a Buddhist temple, hence the name of the authority conferring the official title), the Hayashi, the Yasui, the Inoue, and the Honinbō. This last house produced the most champions at the annual Castle Go tournament. Not only that, but sometimes the strongest players would be summoned to play a game in the Shōgun's presence. Strong Go players held a high status in Japanese society and were considered important members of the Japanese government of the time. Such a high level of government patronage of a board game would not be seen again until the Soviet Chess machine of the Cold War.

Playing Go on an empty board is a Japanese innovation and this was adopted outside of Japan only in the 20th century. In China, Go was played with a tasukiboshi opening. That is, Black and White stones were placed on star points (hoshi, in Japanese) diagonally opposite each other on a 19x19 line board. As well, White would play the first move. This set up was used in Japan up until the 1300s or so. By that time playing on an empty board began to come into vogue.

Quote:
That’s mainly it (for now lol). Living out in the middle of nowhere makes it hard to find anyone with an interest like this and if the wife and kids don’t go for it (Pun not intended), I’ll need a back up.

Anyway, Hello again and I hope to make a few friends here,
Rowen (aka John)
If you want to improve at Go while you are not playing games online (finding someone to play with face-to-face is not easy Stateside), you can do the following. One, buy yourself a Go puzzle book and do a few dozen every day. If you prefer to do them online, there are different sites. One popular website is goproblems.com .

Here is something you may want to buy. Although it is a Korean publication, it's in English and a good way to get started with puzzles.

https://www.yutopian.com/yutop/cat?prod ... tegory=PAK

(Baduk is the Korean word for Go.)

If you cannot figure out the solution to a puzzle, do not be discouraged. The real purpose of puzzles is to train your analytical ability, which can then be applied when playing actual games. Do lots of easy puzzles. By "easy" I mean something you can figure out the answer to in 60 seconds or less. If it takes longer than that, skip it and come back to it later when your understanding has advanced some. Also, unless you feel like it, there is no need to do puzzles for 2 or 3 hours straight. As little as 3 or 5 15-minute sessions, spread throughout the day, can be effective.

As well, take the time to replay games by professionals. Replaying pro games for the Go player is like watching video footage of football games for the football player. Just as the football player gets to observe good playing form when closely watching the footage, a Go player gets to observe good playing form by replaying a pro game.

For novices historical players such as Shūsaku and Honinbō Shūei are recommended, even though in practice you are free to pick any player you want. Still, games by modern players are very complex since knowledge of Go has advanced greatly since the days of Shūsaku (think the Presidential Administrations of Franklin Pierce and James Buchanan) and said knowledge is applied in a sophisticated manner by today's pro players. Games by the old masters are simpler in style since knowledge of Go was not as advanced then as it is today, but the seminal forms of today's playing styles can be found in the games of Shūsaku and Honinbō Shūei.

When you feel that your Go knowledge has advanced enough, for variety's sake you may want to replay games by Chen Yaoye, Lee Changho, Cho Chikun, or Awaji Shūzō, among many others. When replaying these you can take away some ideas to refine your understanding of opening moves, middle game, etc.

With regular practice, you will improve at Go, even if only gradually. Your wife and daughters may find this study régime to be fun - at least when practiced at leisure. Perhaps one of your daughters will like Go so much that she decides to go pro ;-)

For something fun and easy to understand, you may want to consider Capture Go. You wife and daughters may like this variant of Go as it is simpler and has a different objective, mainly to capture a predetermined amount of stones. As well, it's an easy way to get acquainted with that most fundamental of Go skills: capture and counting of liberties (turns needed to capture a stone as determined by the amount of empty intersections connected to a group of stones by a line and/or self-atari spots, which are intersections where there is the danger of your stones being captured on the next turn). You can find out more here: http://www.gokgs.com/tutorial/captureGo.jsp

This is a account of one person's experiences with Capture Go: http://kids-chess-and-go.blogspot.com/2 ... ki-go.html

Enjoy the journey! You will not be disappointed.


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 Post subject: Re: Hello Everyone!
Post #10 Posted: Sun Nov 10, 2013 12:06 am 
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leichtloeslich wrote:
edit: wait, is Georgia = "Georgien" in German? Hm, I just thought it was some US state. Well, I'd still recommend trying to find out if there are any go clubs near you, but I have no ideas on how to do that in this case ^^


It's both ; )

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Georgia

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 Post subject: Re: Hello Everyone!
Post #11 Posted: Sun Nov 10, 2013 6:20 pm 
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Thanks for the replies everyone!

tekesta that was an awesome reply. Loads of information and I loved the bit of history you placed in there. Much appreciated.

I'm excited to learn how to play, ordered my first set from Amazon (something cheap but had good reviews) and waiting for it to arrive!

Thanks again for the amazing welcome.

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Post #12 Posted: Wed Nov 20, 2013 1:26 am 
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Welcome Rowen,

I am new here as well. My two children ages 8 boy and 13 girl showed no interest in GO until we sat down and watched Hikaru. Now they both play and come with me to GO night. My daughter has even been to seen practicing because she wants to beat me. She told me she did not think she would like playing but was surprised that she enjoyed it. Who replaced my daughter?

Good luck!

Anthony

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