A beginner's game

[kungfupigeon]

Hi guys... I played a game as black. I am having trouble getting people online to review my games so I have little clue about what I'm doing as a beginner. Would anyone be able to give me some pointers in this game? A monkey jump (? is that what it's called?) completely destroyed my territory -.- Must look out for that next game!

Just wondering my opening too... was the pincer smaller than going for the last corner?

http://www.lifein19x19.com/forum/download/file.php?id=3883

[Boidhre]

The pincer is fine, so is going for the other corner. You didn't need to approach the 3,3 stone though, he can't develop quickly or well from it so it's a low priority move. Approaching the bottom right or perhaps making it 3-1 in the bottom right are bigger I think. I'm sure others will give you a more detailed view/correct me.

Welcome to the forum by the way.

[kungfupigeon]

-.- And I just read it in "in the beginning" about low priority in approaching a 3-3 point... silly me.

[Boidhre]

We improve by screwing up enough times to remember not to do it again.

[EdLee]

I am having trouble getting people online to review my games

May I ask how many games have you finished so far? (Approximately? Around 50? Around 100?)

Another question: why did you play 103 ? (Same question, rephrased: can you find a better local move? )

[kungfupigeon]

C1?? Or perhaps connecting that wall of stones? I felt a lot of pain losing them.

I have fully completed around 5 online games with people and around 10 with bots. I don't get enough time to sit down and play proper games.

I heard you should reach your first 100 losses as soon as possible... I still have a long way to go ha.

[EdLee]

I have fully completed around 5 online games with people and around 10 with bots. I don't get enough time to sit down and play proper games.

I suggest you play. Play. Play. And play. Just enjoy the game. Have fun. After about 100 games, then ask for reviews.

[MattMiller]

its hard to believe anyone is that good that fast. thats outstanding. the overall quality of moves is ridiculous good if you only played a handful of games like you said

[Mike Novack]

its hard to believe anyone is that good that fast. thats outstanding. the overall quality of moves is ridiculous good if you only played a handful of games like you said

Yes, and that is an indication that "kunfupigeon" is one of those people who is learning differently and so the standard advice might not apply. I would be willing to bet that there is more going on here than the experience of ~15 games.

Kungfupigeon, besides playing games, how are you learning about go? << I was also one of the odd ones, learned from books, and was perhaps about 10k before I ever got to play against anybody, human or bot. But most people cannot learn this way just looking >>.

[Boidhre]

Having played two games with him earlier. It doesn't feel like playing a beginner at all (which actually was bad because I forgot who I was playing against and was a lot more severe than I normally would be with a new player, which is a compliment I suppose).

An example from our game:

This move did not make me think of a total beginner, especially after the explanation in the review that it was played because it was miai (though he did not use that word):

$$B
$$ +---------------------------+
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . O , . . 1 . . , O . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . . . . . , . . . . . . |

Click Here To Show Diagram Code

[go]$$B
$$ +---------------------------+
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . O , . . 1 . . , O . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . . . . . , . . . . . . |[/go]

The follow-up showed the right idea but perhaps the wrong approach:

$$Wm2
$$ +---------------------------+
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . . . 1 . . . . 2 . . . |
$$ | . . O , . . X . . , O . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . . . . . , . . . . . . |

Click Here To Show Diagram Code

[go]$$Wm2
$$ +---------------------------+
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . . . 1 . . . . 2 . . . |
$$ | . . O , . . X . . , O . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . . . . . , . . . . . . |[/go]

Soon to sdk methinks.

[kungfupigeon]

No no... not some crazy talented person. Although I didn't play very much... I stood behind and watched a handful of games of players playing in a go club before I took a long hiatus. They explained a lot of things to me... opening moves, think about how your stones relate to each other etc. I picked up Janice Kim's book on learn to play go 2 and 3 and that taught me surprisingly a lot. I am also working my way through graded go problems for beginners 1. I also read a bit and watched some commentary games on youtube by bats and go commentary recently and although I don't pretend to understand what pros are doing, I get an idea of good shapes. So although I haven't played much, I've seen a few games.

My opponents seem to disappear straight after the game so I am trying to look at my games myself but I don't think I'm at that level where I can spot my mistakes... Then I fear I'm picking up bad habits. As Boid suggested to me last night, I shouldn't avoid playing games.

As Ed suggested... I may play few more games before I ask for reviews and something more specific. Thanks!

[skydyr]

A lot of people may be skeptical, but I feel for me, I basically skipped the ddk ranks because I stopped playing but kept reading about go sporadically for a few years, and when I came back to the game, that basic knowledge was enough to get me to around 10k without reading more than a move ahead or so, generally. This was generally very basic stuff, like 2 space extensions on the 3rd line, keima approaches to 4-4 stones and a basic joseki or two. I think a lot of the struggle at that point is figuring out how the game is actually played, as with the example of miai that was given earlier, and making some semblance of decent shape.

As for not being able to review games you play, on kgs at least, you can put them up in the kgs teaching ladder and ask for a review, or as was mentioned before, put them up here. If you see me on a server, feel free to ask for a review or game. I'm sure many other forum members would voice the same sentiment, and it never hurts to ask.

[moyoaji]

A lot of people may be skeptical, but I feel for me, I basically skipped the ddk ranks because I stopped playing but kept reading about go sporadically for a few years, and when I came back to the game, that basic knowledge was enough to get me to around 10k without reading more than a move ahead or so, generally. This was generally very basic stuff, like 2 space extensions on the 3rd line, keima approaches to 4-4 stones and a basic joseki or two. I think a lot of the struggle at that point is figuring out how the game is actually played, as with the example of miai that was given earlier, and making some semblance of decent shape.

Interesting. I had the opposite experience. I didn't start studying go until last March and when I went to play on the KGS for the first time I started out rising to 9k (I did fall back to 11k, but not for long). So I skipped through the DDK ranks strictly by playing club games without reading any books or other resources.

I can see this working either way. This was sort of my experience going from 6k to 4k. I hardly played any games, but kept on reading books and studying and when I came back to the game I immediately rose from 6k to 4k on the KGS.

Both study and playing will make you stronger, the combination is of course more powerful than either alone.

As for not being able to review games you play, on kgs at least, you can put them up in the kgs teaching ladder and ask for a review, or as was mentioned before, put them up here. If you see me on a server, feel free to ask for a review or game. I'm sure many other forum members would voice the same sentiment, and it never hurts to ask.

Absolutely. I'm usually in the Teaching Ladder when online and I'm basically always up for a game.