That's a good point. I suppose that, this early in the opening, there might be some variation in what pros prefer to play.macelee wrote:I do not fully agree with your lecturer. His first point is clearly correct:
However in this particular opening, in fact there were many professional games in which white approach the corner from the bottom side, including this one played by Lee Changho (http://www.go4go.net/go/games/sgfview/7501/20).
Best-next-move-Question
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Kirby
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Re: Best-next-move-Question
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Re: Best-next-move-Question
Thanks for the examples, Bill. It was nice to consider some other options for plays on the bottom, from the example I gave.Bill Spight wrote:...
In Pippen's example the White stones in the bottom left have a base, but are not settled. It is not really comparable to your example. If you form a moyo, of course the opponent can invade. In your example where Black invades, White has spent eight stones net on the bottom side, and it is still vulnerable.
Regarding Pippen's example, could we discuss this further?
Question 1
Comparing only the knight's moves, if black does tenuki, how would you follow up as white here? I can't find anything that doesn't feel awkward. The reason I ask is because, if we contrast with the other direction, it seems natural for white to extend along the right if black were to play in a similar way (of course, black has many other options to play):
In the latter diagram here, both the right and bottom seem like natural developments (ignoring the fact that black passed!). However, in the former, I'm having trouble finding a good follow up for white.
Question 2
From the original question, it looks like your preference was to play here: if black were to pass in this situation, is this also where you'd play for white? Or would you approach, as above?
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Re: Best-next-move-Question
Why is this awkward for white? I quite like this for white. Black needs to defend weakness at 'a'. Also this shape makes black 'b' less valuable because 'c' and 'd' are sort of miai points, white can ignore 'b'. For this reason, black is unlikely to play 'b' any time soon, meaning that white has better chance to get a fat corner.
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Re: Best-next-move-Question
Thanks, seeing things in this way, I agree.macelee wrote: Why is this awkward for white? I quite like this for white. Black needs to defend weakness at 'a'. Also this shape makes black 'b' less valuable because 'c' and 'd' are sort of miai points, white can ignore 'b'. For this reason, black is unlikely to play 'b' any time soon, meaning that white has better chance to get a fat corner.
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skydyr
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Re: Best-next-move-Question
My first thought was B, with the intent to pincer tightly if white approaches the corner from the left, but I can see the merits of A. I think I prefer enclosing the corner to A, though. I don't like most of the other options because they seem premature with such big points on the board and no unsettled fighting.Shaddy wrote:The first thing that strikes me is Bill's A, but thinking about it, I don't feel like it's a move that current pros would play. I'd probably enclose with C or D.
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Re: Best-next-move-Question
In this example, it seems like a checking extension at the marked point is a natural followup for black which either induces black to play on the bottom after white responds, or sets up a decent attack on white's group.Kirby wrote: The reason I ask is because, if we contrast with the other direction, it seems natural for white to extend along the right if black were to play in a similar way (of course, black has many other options to play):
In the latter diagram here, both the right and bottom seem like natural developments (ignoring the fact that black passed!). However, in the former, I'm having trouble finding a good follow up for white.
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Re: Best-next-move-Question
The double approach looks good to me.Kirby wrote:Regarding Pippen's example, could we discuss this further?
Question 1
Comparing only the knight's moves, if black does tenuki, how would you follow up as white here? I can't find anything that doesn't feel awkward.
If I were giving komi I would play one space closer.Here I would pincer withThe reason I ask is because, if we contrast with the other direction, it seems natural for white to extend along the right if black were to play in a similar way (of course, black has many other options to play):
. My preference would be the wedge on the right side.Question 2
From the original question, it looks like your preference was to play here: if black were to pass in this situation, is this also where you'd play for white? Or would you approach, as above?
I know I said that the right side was cooler than the bottom side, but that's only by a bit. The wedge leaves White with the only large scale moyo. That makes for an easier game for White.
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Re: Best-next-move-Question
This is why I preferred the right side over the bottom for black.Bill Spight wrote: My preference would be the wedge on the right side.
I know I said that the right side was cooler than the bottom side, but that's only by a bit. The wedge leaves White with the only large scale moyo. That makes for an easier game for White.