Difference between GoPanda2 ranks and Panda-Tetsuki ranks?

DrQuantum · Post by **DrQuantum** » Thu Jan 02, 2014 9:42 pm

Hi -

I find it somewhat odd that my rank on the GoPanda2 client (17+ kyu) and that on the Net Social Plaza are what it seems they should be - but the Panda-Tetsuki client records me as 15+. This seems like a trivial issue... Why is it that the rating shown doesn't match between these clients? Perhaps this has been answered before on this forum but I couldn't find discussion of it anywhere.

Todd

Progenitor · Post by **Progenitor** » Sat Jan 04, 2014 3:12 am

That is interesting. I would think they would be synced up unless when you checked they happened to make an update. Are they still different now? I just recently started playing and my rank is the same on both.

DrQuantum · Post by **DrQuantum** » Sat Jan 04, 2014 7:26 am

Hi - no, they are still two stones different. Here are the screenshots to prove it. It's always been this way (well, I've only had an IGS account for a little over a year and though i signed up for the account a year ago I have only been active as a player for a few weeks). It seems to me very strange, as I've said

leichtloeslich · Post by **leichtloeslich** » Sat Jan 04, 2014 8:03 am

I don't know where that client gets its information, but you know you can just connect to IGS via telnet, right? There is also this java-client which lets you use the console.

Here's the output of "stats DrQuantum":

stats DrQuantum wrote:Player: DrQuantum
Game: go (1)
Language: default
Rating: 17k+ 0
Rated Games: 34
Rank: 17k+ 12
BeginnerClassWins: 0
Wins: 42
Losses: 66
Idle Time: (On server) 5s
Address: panda@.us
Country: USA
Community: -
Reg date: Mon Jan 1 00:00:00 1900
Info: I'm not a terribly experienced player - but am learning the game.
Defaults (help defs): time 90, size 19, byo-yomi time 10, byo-yomi stones 25

Notice there's a "rank" and a "rating". For more info on these, do "help stats", "help rank" and "help rating".

That'll answer some questions and probably raise a few others.

My tip: don't worry about your IGS rating and just play.

If you feel you're consistently getting very uneven matches in automatch, (i.e. either you're severely under- or overrated) your best bet short of playing through these games until your rating has adjusted, is to just create a new account (or maybe contact an IGS admin for a rating reset).

DrQuantum · Post by **DrQuantum** » Sat Jan 04, 2014 8:16 am

I actually don't give a hoot about what the rating is - I'm just curious about why the ratings differ. I know what the real rating is (the lower) and I'm perfectly fine with that. It just seems a trivial matter to make the main interface match what the ratings actually are.

leichtloeslich · Post by **leichtloeslich** » Sat Jan 04, 2014 8:39 am

Well, since it seems to be a purely client-related issue, maybe try asking the devs for the answer. It's this thing: http://www.gentgo.be/tetsuki/ <- right?
Appearently they have a forum: http://tetsuki.forum2go.nl/
You may want to ask there (as opposed to emailing the devs directly).

Seems pretty weird anyway.

DrQuantum · Post by **DrQuantum** » Sat Jan 04, 2014 9:49 am

Weird! On Progenitor's suggestion I deleted the app and reinstalled... And now everything matches. Weird!

lobotommy · Post by **lobotommy** » Mon Jan 06, 2014 12:22 pm

It was not a bug. You just had set a "japanese ranking" on. If japanese rank is set on then rank is higher by 2-3 stones.

: ImageUploadedByTapatalk1389036200.627880.jpg (208.24 KiB) Viewed 13905 times

EdLee · Post by **EdLee** » Thu Jan 09, 2014 1:36 pm

lobotommy wrote:If japanese rank is set on then rank is higher by 2-3 stones.

oren · Post by **oren** » Thu Jan 09, 2014 3:13 pm

EdLee wrote:
lobotommy wrote:If japanese rank is set on then rank is higher by 2-3 stones.

Yeah, it's one of the funny things you notice when using the Japanese client. You get shown as 2 stones stronger.

Mef · Post by **Mef** » Sun Jan 12, 2014 3:05 am

oren wrote:
EdLee wrote:
lobotommy wrote:If japanese rank is set on then rank is higher by 2-3 stones.

Yeah, it's one of the funny things you notice when using the Japanese client. You get shown as 2 stones stronger.

I believe for a while IGS was (maybe they still are?) selling nice certificates with your rank on them. I would imagine it's better for business to have everyone's rank appear higher.

EdLee · Post by **EdLee** » Sun Jan 12, 2014 3:42 am

Mef wrote:I believe for a while IGS was (maybe they still are?) selling nice certificates with your rank on them.
I would imagine it's better for business to have everyone's rank appear higher.

Exactly. Standard conflict of interest: which is more important, the student's education (and improvement), or the money ?
For any commercial, for-profit organization, money always wins, by definition.
As a result:

More ranks means more profit. Charge $$$ for each ranking test, for each ranking promotion.
Charge more $$$ the higher the rank.
Because money wins, if a student has not quite attained a certain level, or is borderline, the tendency is still to encourage the student to take the promotion test, and worse, to award the promotion. Because promotion means more $$$.
Rainbow color belts (in various commercial martial arts groups, not in Go yet, that I know of ). More ranks and more color belts, and stripes and other bells and whistles keep the students interested and motivated (especially for children, but for adults, too). More ranks means more promotions so the students feel they are "improving" more constantly, which means more $$$ for the organization.
Rank inflation, sometimes massively.

This business model and the resulting rank inflation were present in Japan in the late 1950's, and perhaps even earlier, in commercial for-profit martial art groups.

oren · Post by **oren** » Tue Jan 21, 2014 4:13 pm

I saw this page today while checking on igs ranks that can explain the differences between Japanese (on the left) and normal IGS rank (on the right).

http://www.pandanet.co.jp/newkinou/0503/point.htm

２級（4k） 20900 20000

So a 2k (Japanese) is 4k rating on the stats page. It continues through the whole system.

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