If it is a private conversation and the other person told you not to post it in public, it's really disrespectful to post it in public.

PM messages are personal conversations which should not be posted in the L19 forum as per the following rule.

3. Meaningless Posts
Keep posts relevant to the topic and make sure to use the edit button when appropriate. Don't post for the sake of post counts. Spam is not allowed. Also, personal conversations between members should be done via Private Messaging, not in a thread.

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http://tchan001.wordpress.com
A blog on Asian go books, go sightings, and interesting tidbits
Go is such a beautiful game.

1. thats referring to l19, not kgs

1b. thats not even a relevant rule. that is saying that conversations between two people should be done via pm instead of in a thread. nothing related to what youre implying.

2. if he says that only because what he says is incriminating toward his treatment of me and others, then why should i respect that? its clear he only said that because he realized what he said could make him look bad

The conversation which you posted after BD's warning is in my opinion baiting the KGS admins in general to give punishment to those involved. I would imagine that you were not the only one to be given warning by PM. Giving warning by PM in KGS seems to be a standard procedure. All you do by posting the contents of the KGS PM is to show the world you don't respect warnings from KGS admins. So you flaunt your disrespect and you just want others to cheer you on for your actions which could possibly get you banned from KGS.

As to what you personally posted, I'd say that it is not exactly the most respectful thing to ask in public if a KGS admin died of blood loss just because you don't see them online. You can honestly not know what happened to glue, but the way you asked is honestly not the best way to say it.

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http://tchan001.wordpress.com
A blog on Asian go books, go sightings, and interesting tidbits
Go is such a beautiful game.

that was not a warning, that was a punishment. thats one thing you have wrong. youre also trying to say that i shouldnt ask the admin what i did wrong.

not to mention i can say that youre very likely wrong on doug warning others via pm for a few reasons. its standard protocol for him to warn publicly. he did this with the user originally, twice even. in the pm, he said that he used to talk publicly but thought it was "pointless".

i do find it funny that you think asking the admin what i did wrong is disrespect. it shows me that you shouldnt be in a position of power if you think it should go unquestioned. especially when this admin has a long history of being disrespectful toward others.

you did the exact same thing in page 1 of this thread, you took quotes out of context and twisted rules to try to make me look like the bad guy. and now youer doing it again by trying to misapply a l19 rule.

i have to ask you to not post in this thread again, because all youve done is try to slander me, both now and a month ago. i wont be responding to anymore of your posts in here unless i feel like youre still trying to slander me. thank you.

There is nothing wrong with asking an admin what you did wrong. What is wrong is posting something which was meant to be a private conversation in public especially after the other party of the conversation explicitly told you not to.

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http://tchan001.wordpress.com
A blog on Asian go books, go sightings, and interesting tidbits
Go is such a beautiful game.

tchan, I think that is the proper and respectful way to behave. I agree with that as a general rule. However, there must be exceptions to the rule. If someone is abusing his power against you and essentially admits to it in private conversation, should you be expected to keep it private? I think not. This is especially true when this person tries to insinuate to the public that whatever you did was bad enough without specifying exactly what it was. Think about the power situation here, if you take away the right to share private communications under all circumstances, xDragon (or any other user) must essentially submit to admin abuse without a way to convince the public that they're not whining just trolls. After all, BigDoug could just go on claiming that he's given a reason for a punishment in private, it is not to be shared, and that this secret reason was good enough to justify the punishment. Most of us would just believe BigDoug because we tend to believe people in authority and god knows there are millions of terrible trolls online. I certainly would have dismissed whatever xDragon had to say without him sharing all this stuff.

If you felt that any disrespect was meant to glue, I think that this is just a huge misunderstanding. They were joking about an imaginary glass box (sort of like one that would be around a fire alarm or a nuclear launch button) that might surround the button to make admins' messages bold. The joke was that if such a glass box existed, then some admins might die from blood loss after breaking the box many times. The part about glue wasn't really about glue. It was just a follow-up joke: "[Some admin who hasn't been around lately] must have pushed the button too many times, haha." It's the kind of thing that would go over well at comedy clubs or on Letterman. The comment did not occur in a vacuum, but within the context of an ongoing joke. It's just a clever joke and we can see Mef, another admin, joining in the harmless fun.

ok, lemmata, thank you for your explanation.

I think that since xDragon has opened up a can of worms by posting private conversations between himself and BD, perhaps BD may choose to post other PMs with other details which have not been previously disclosed to the public.

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http://tchan001.wordpress.com
A blog on Asian go books, go sightings, and interesting tidbits
Go is such a beautiful game.

It's extremely important to remember however that it's extremely easy to take private messages out of context and since private chats are not stored on KGS, short of you having the foresight to screengrab that conversation there is almost no way for you to show you were taken out of context other than by asking people to believe such based on your word and whether they will or not usually depends on what way they were leaning before the whole thing was revealed.

Private chats are stored on KGS, at least for a while. We can ask for a "snoop" to look at them, provided there's a good reason to do so (such as a user complaining about being harassed in PM).

Another reason to use the hacked client: it has a feature to record chats to log files.

Sorry, I was unclear. I mean, that as a user I do not have a chat history for private conversations using the normal client.

Btw, xDragon's latest example is a perfect illustration of why I think I, or even a salt cellar, cow turd or loaf of bread would be a better admin than BigDoug. What problem was he trying to solve with his admin intervention? hopf using the enter key to separate phrases instead of sentences. Oh no! The calamity! The result was creating a problem not solving one. Better to just be quiet and not do anything at all.

Could you please write longer sentences?

He's just doing his job to stop hopf from filling up the chat area with text.
Under KGS TOS, there are certain behaviors that are absolutely not tolerated at KGS including:

How could you be a better admin if you didn't do your job in preventing this type of behavior?


You also promote the used of a modified client. Which is also against KGS TOS

Somehow I don't think they will invite you to be an admin at KGS anytime soon.

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http://tchan001.wordpress.com
A blog on Asian go books, go sightings, and interesting tidbits
Go is such a beautiful game.

tchan: you have a poor understanding of flooding. Spot the difference:

kydyodydufif
upfpufuofpufpu
oufupdupfpud
oydyofyof
pufuofuof
iydoydkydupdyodyos
ouduoduodpud
often its swear words not nonsense
lyxyldlufulfjlfulucufif ufupfupfulful ufoupuf
oydyoykdludlud

and:

the message is:
do you want to close the game?

Uberdude, I remember having been warned in the past for talking too much in EGR in full sentences in a conversation. Seems like they don't want people talking excessively there as that could be classified as flooding.
I am aware of the type of flooding you are talking about. Just letting you know that flooding in KGS seems to be classified more broadly.
Please also note that we are only presented with a segment of the chat and do not know how frequent hopf posted prior to this segment. The "please don't press the enter key so often" was the type of warning I remember receiving for talking too much in EGR chat.

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http://tchan001.wordpress.com
A blog on Asian go books, go sightings, and interesting tidbits
Go is such a beautiful game.

Indeed, KGS makes it clear that talking in EGR is something frowned on. The admins even go the extra mile and make it clear that being in KGS is something that should be avoided altogether, that's why they create rules and change the definition of well known concepts (like flooding) just to troll their users.

xDragon: you must have realized by now that wms and the KGS admins do not want you around. Man up and move on to a different server where your presence is appreciated. I usually avoid places where I feel unwelcomed, I advise you to do the same.

They usually want you to move the long chats to ECR if you wish to continue what you were conversing on EGR.

_________________
http://tchan001.wordpress.com
A blog on Asian go books, go sightings, and interesting tidbits
Go is such a beautiful game.

KGS doesn’t have a broader definition of flooding, it’s just BigDoug (afaik) who has his own idea that more than 3 consecutive lines of text by the same user is a BAD THING (I can’t remember if he actually considers it “flooding” contrary to the widely understood meaning of that term) and issues his admin commands and punishments accordingly.

You are correct that xDragon’s clip doesn’t show earlier chats and hpof could indeed have posted 4 consecutive lines of text, but based on the writing we can see he doesn’t seem like a bad person who needs instructing or telling off. Yes BigDoug is polite when he does it, saying please (but I at least find his style rather condescending), but people don’t like being told what to do, even politely, so I think it’s best to save admin intervention for those problems sufficiently serious to warrant it. Otherwise you piss people off, make them used to ignoring admin instructions, and diminish the respect and authority of admins; rather like the boy crying wolf.