New books: Go Book of Peach Blossom Spring & Games of Wonder

[Ruoshi Sun]

Two new books are now available on CreateSpace and Amazon (including Amazon Europe).

1. Go Book of Peach Blossom Spring is an English translation of Taohua Quan Yipu by Fan Xiping, one of the strongest players in the Qing dynasty most famous for his Ten-Game Match at Danghu against Shi Xiangxia. In this masterpiece, Fan summarizes his unique findings from his lifelong research with an exposition of 20 basic positions in over 400 variations.

Links:
http://senseis.xmp.net/?PeachBlossom
https://www.createspace.com/4742860
http://www.amazon.com/Go-Book-Peach-Blo ... 1497555191

2. Games of Wonder is an English translation of Yi Miao compiled by Wu Jun and Wu Jiong. It is a collection of 40 famous games by some of the best players in the Qing Dynasty, including go saints Huang Longshi, Shi Xiangxia, and Fan Xiping as well as masters Xu Xingyou, Cheng Lanru, and Liang Weijin.

Links:
http://senseis.xmp.net/?GamesOfWonder
https://www.createspace.com/4733019
http://www.amazon.com/Games-Wonder-Jun-Wu/dp/1497460832

Both games in the cover images are contained in this book.

Please visit the links for more information. Sample pages are available on Amazon. I would love to hear your feedback!

=========

My other translations (Three-Stone Games and Four-Stone Games by Guo Bailing) can be found in this thread:
viewtopic.php?f=17&t=9948

[Mef]

Interesting! Out of curiosity, I've gone ahead and ordered both. I can try to post a review once I get them.

[Ruoshi Sun]

Thank you! Sample pages of Peach Blossom Spring are now available on Amazon.

[Ruoshi Sun]

It would be nice if the "Go Book of Peach Blossom Spring" was available in digital form - preferably PDF or in SmartGo Books.

Do you have any plans for a digital edition?

Marcel

Thank you for your suggestion! Since I am using Amazon's CreateSpace, there is indeed an option to publish on Kindle. However, I do not plan to publish a digital version for the time being for two reasons. 1. The formatting cannot be preserved. In Go Book of Peach Blossom Spring and Three-Stone Games, for instance, each diagram (with multiple variations and their comments) fits nicely on a single page. In the case of Four-Stone Games, the text is significantly longer so it may be very inconvenient to scroll back and forth between diagram and text. (I am aware that you only asked for Go Book of Peach Blossom Spring, but if I make a digital version for that I would need to consider the other books as well.) 2. Although CreateSpace is non-exclusive, if I choose another publisher for the digital format I believe there are some subtle issues that I need to look into. I will consider that if there is great demand.

[RBerenguel]

It would be nice if the "Go Book of Peach Blossom Spring" was available in digital form - preferably PDF or in SmartGo Books.

Do you have any plans for a digital edition?

Marcel

Thank you for your suggestion! Since I am using Amazon's CreateSpace, there is indeed an option to publish on Kindle. However, I do not plan to publish a digital version for the time being for two reasons. 1. The formatting cannot be preserved. In Go Book of Peach Blossom Spring and Three-Stone Games, for instance, each diagram (with multiple variations and their comments) fits nicely on a single page. In the case of Four-Stone Games, the text is significantly longer so it may be very inconvenient to scroll back and forth between diagram and text. (I am aware that you only asked for Go Book of Peach Blossom Spring, but if I make a digital version for that I would need to consider the other books as well.) 2. Although CreateSpace is non-exclusive, if I choose another publisher for the digital format I believe there are some subtle issues that I need to look into. I will consider that if there is great demand.

If I could get it for kindle, I'd (90% sure) purchase one or both. Having to purchase from Amazon/CS I'd need to add shipping (luckily being CS I can purchase in my "local" Amazon and pay reduced fees) but it adds to the "mental price tag."

[Ruoshi Sun]

If I could get it for kindle, I'd (90% sure) purchase one or both. Having to purchase from Amazon/CS I'd need to add shipping (luckily being CS I can purchase in my "local" Amazon and pay reduced fees) but it adds to the "mental price tag."

I just checked that PDFs are not recommended for conversion to Kindle and that I will need to prepare a separate interior file preferably in doc format. This will be too much effort for me since my original files are all typeset in LaTeX.

I can understand your "mental price tag," but notice that there is a 10% discount on Amazon and the books are prime eligible. Perhaps you can save them for later when you have other stuff to buy there. (The books are print on demand, so they should not go out of print as long as CreateSpace remains in business!)

Sorry that a digital version will not be available in the foreseeable future, but thanks for your interest!

[RBerenguel]

If I could get it for kindle, I'd (90% sure) purchase one or both. Having to purchase from Amazon/CS I'd need to add shipping (luckily being CS I can purchase in my "local" Amazon and pay reduced fees) but it adds to the "mental price tag."

I just checked that PDFs are not recommended for conversion to Kindle and that I will need to prepare a separate interior file preferably in doc format. This will be too much effort for me since my original files are all typeset in LaTeX.

I can understand your "mental price tag," but notice that there is a 10% discount on Amazon and the books are prime eligible. Perhaps you can save them for later when you have other stuff to buy there. (The books are print on demand, so they should not go out of print as long as CreateSpace remains in business!)

Sorry that a digital version will not be available in the foreseeable future, but thanks for your interest!

Don't worry about not having a digital version, it's not your obligation. Having Amazon Prime (Premium, as is known here) makes no sense outside of the US: it's only useful if Amazon can provide you with most things you can think of. Sadly, amazon.es (and AFAIK, any Amazon non-US) provides just even a handful of books, not the full catalog, and a very reduced catalog of electronics, and nothing in the weirder categories (if I could buy cashews with Amazon Prime I'd probably do it every week). So having Prime is just paying eventually more. The discount in amazon.es is just (quoted as) 5%, but the price tag in Euro is cheaper than the price tag in USD (both after discount.) In any case, I'll keep them in my "maybe" list for when I have an order for Amazon.es or Amazon.com to combine shipping fees.

[oren]

I've picked up go kindle books from Japan which are just duplicates of the physical books. They can't do reflow text, but they are still very good to read.

[Ruoshi Sun]

I've picked up go kindle books from Japan which are just duplicates of the physical books. They can't do reflow text, but they are still very good to read.

Thanks for the information! I just gave Kindle a shot. Unfortunately, the go diagrams are not visible at all. I guess that's because the diagrams are not images but vectorized objects that Kindle cannot parse.

[lichigo]

Hi sun ruoshi,

I just got yi miao book and after few secondes i already like this book. The quality seems good and i can see you like the game of go. In few days i will write something about the games.
Thank you for share this kind of book , i hope more books like this .

Frédéric

[Ruoshi Sun]

Interesting! Out of curiosity, I've gone ahead and ordered both. I can try to post a review once I get them.

Hi sun ruoshi,

I just got yi miao book and after few secondes i already like this book. The quality seems good and i can see you like the game of go. In few days i will write something about the games.
Thank you for share this kind of book , i hope more books like this .

Frédéric

Hi Mef and Frédéric,

Thank you both for the comments! I discovered a few typos in the book. (Curiously, they all occur in the first few games.) They are listed under "Errata" on Sensei's Library:
http://senseis.xmp.net/?GamesOfWonder
Sorry for the inconvenience. I hope you will enjoy the games.

Ruoshi

[Drew]

Forgive my ignorance as a relative newcomer, but how do these Chinese saints compare to their contemporary Japanese peers? My understanding is that Japan was leagues ahead of the Chinese in Go theory during this era.

[John Fairbairn]

Forgive my ignorance as a relative newcomer, but how do these Chinese saints compare to their contemporary Japanese peers? My understanding is that Japan was leagues ahead of the Chinese in Go theory during this era.

That's just Japanese PR. Go Seigen, who knows a little about go sanctity himself, ranked Huang Longshi with Honinbo Dosaku. Others have called Zhou Xiaosong the Japanese Shuwa, for example. Add to these the likes of Guo Bailing (probably superior to Sansa), Xu Xingyou, Fan Xiping and Shi Dingan and you have a team that would match anything the Japanese could put out at any era.

In defence of the Japanese attitude, during most of the Edo period the country was officially closed and so very few go players had access to Chinese go. One rare example who did, because he had a father-in-law who was a scholar of Chinese, was Hayashi Genbi. Himself close to Meijin standard, he gushed about the Chinese players and printed several in his Rankado Kiwa.

When Japanese people were eventually able to get to China easily, in the early 20th century, China was in an economic and political mess, which naturally impacted severely on professional go. What the Japanese saw, therefore, was go at that time of rather poor standard, and they, not unnaturally, inferred that previous Chinese go had been inferior, too.

However, the Japanese did make an important change by dropping the starting stones, and so there is a strong case to be made that Japanese go was richer in interest.

Conversely, note that there are achievements in China that the Japanese did not match for a very long time, most notably the standard of commentaries. Xu Xingyou's masterpieces are nearly three centuries ahead of Japanese commentaries, and they themselves show how rich was the understanding of go in Huang Longshi's time (Go attributes the discovery of amashi to him), so we don't actually need to rely on Go Seigen's opinion.

[Ruoshi Sun]

Forgive my ignorance as a relative newcomer, but how do these Chinese saints compare to their contemporary Japanese peers? My understanding is that Japan was leagues ahead of the Chinese in Go theory during this era.

This is a major source of controversy, so I will try to be as objective as possible.

First of all, a direct comparison can be made only if they played each other. Unfortunately, the 3 saints (Huang Longshi, Shi Xiangxia, Fan Xiping) never played with Japanese players. It was not until the late Qing to early Republican period did the top players get a chance to play with Japanese professionals. The results were terrible for the Chinese. With this awakening the Chinese began to study the go theory developed by the Japanese. This was when China realized Japan was leagues ahead, but there are a few things to notice here.

1. The go scene was in full bloom during the early-mid Qing period, during which the pinnacle was reached by the 3 saints. By the end of the Qing dynasty, the level of go actually had become weaker. Therefore, although China lost badly in her first encounter with Japan, one cannot conclude that the 3 saints were also weaker.
2. The rules were different. The ancient Chinese rules used "seated stones" (players occupied diagonal star points before a game started) and "group tax" (the player with N more groups had to pay N stones during counting). Although these rules may not seem to be very important to the average amateur, they greatly affect the style of play at the professional level. On the other hand, the Japanese had long abolished these rules. Naturally, under Japanese rules, Japan was more advanced in fuseki and corner joseki, and had a great advantage compared to China.
3. Fuseki and joseki are not the only determinants of strength. Consider the quality of books like Xuan Xuan Qi Jing (translated into English under the title Gateway to All Marvels by John Fairbairn) and Guanzi Pu and the numerous brilliant moves especially in the games of the 3 saints. People are amazed by these books and games even to this day. This cannot be the result of propaganda and blind worship if ancient Chinese were really considerably weaker.

With that said, reading these ancient books may not be the fastest way to improve your skills because many of the fuseki and joseki moves are not directly applicable in modern go. If you are a beginner, I would actually discourage you from reading these books as you may not be able to learn anything from them. For the more advanced, I would like to quote myself in the foreword to Three-Stone Games:

While josekis may evolve and fusekis may go out of fashion, the beauty and the underlying principles of go are eternal. I hope you will discover the marvels in [these books] and apply them to your own games.

One must never blindly imitate the moves you see in books and professional games, even for modern ones.

So where are the marvels? Feel free to take in a look at the sample pages. If you cannot find any, the book is probably not for you.

[Ruoshi Sun]

Forgive my ignorance as a relative newcomer, but how do these Chinese saints compare to their contemporary Japanese peers? My understanding is that Japan was leagues ahead of the Chinese in Go theory during this era.

That's just Japanese PR. Go Seigen, who knows a little about go sanctity himself, ranked Huang Longshi with Honinbo Dosaku. Others have called Zhou Xiaosong the Japanese Shuwa, for example. Add to these the likes of Guo Bailing (probably superior to Sansa), Xu Xingyou, Fan Xiping and Shi Dingan and you have a team that would match anything the Japanese could put out at any era.

In defence of the Japanese attitude, during most of the Edo period the country was officially closed and so very few go players had access to Chinese go. One rare example who did, because he had a father-in-law who was a scholar of Chinese, was Hayashi Genbi. Himself close to Meijin standard, he gushed about the Chinese players and printed several in his Rankado Kiwa.

When Japanese people were eventually able to get to China easily, in the early 20th century, China was in an economic and political mess, which naturally impacted severely on professional go. What the Japanese saw, therefore, was go at that time of rather poor standard, and they, not unnaturally, inferred that previous Chinese go had been inferior, too.

However, the Japanese did make an important change by dropping the starting stones, and so there is a strong case to be made that Japanese go was richer in interest.

Conversely, note that there are achievements in China that the Japanese did not match for a very long time, most notably the standard of commentaries. Xu Xingyou's masterpieces are nearly three centuries of Japanese commentaries, and they themselves show how rich was the understanding of go in Huang Longshi's time (Go attributes the discovery of amashi to him), so we don't actually need to rely on Go Seigen's opinion.

I didn't see your comment while I was writing. Thank you!