Higher level discussions, analysis of professional games, etc., go here.
oren
Oza
Posts: 2777 Joined: Sun Apr 18, 2010 5:54 pmGD Posts: 0KGS: orenTygem: oren740, orenlIGS: orenWbaduk: orenLocation: Seattle, WAHas thanked: 251 times Been thanked: 549 times
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by oren Tue Jun 03, 2014 8:55 pm
Ok who predicted move 8?
First day through lunch...
(;CA[shift_jis]SZ[19]AP[MultiGo:4.4.4]GN[ﾚｰﾃｨﾝｸﾞ対局]DT[20140603 [20\:53\]]PB[井山裕太 9段P]
Iyama on Black. Ida on White.
It's always good when the commentator has to say "This is not a mistake in recording"
Backpack
Beginner
Posts: 12 Joined: Mon Jul 22, 2013 3:35 amRank: KGS 4dGD Posts: 0KGS: backpack1Been thanked: 1 time
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by Backpack Wed Jun 04, 2014 2:55 am
I´ve never seen move 8 but it appears to be playable.
Dusk Eagle
Gosei
Posts: 1758 Joined: Tue Apr 20, 2010 4:02 pmRank: 4dGD Posts: 0Has thanked: 378 times Been thanked: 375 times
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by Dusk Eagle Wed Jun 04, 2014 2:58 am
I'm going to play this in every game I can at my Go club tonight just to get reactions, even if it isn't appropriate in my circumstances.
P.S. The game can be followed here:
http://mimiaka.meteor.com/live-games
We don't know who we are; we don't know where we are.
Uberdude
Judan
Posts: 6727 Joined: Thu Nov 24, 2011 11:35 amRank: UK 4 danGD Posts: 0KGS: Uberdude 4dOGS: Uberdude 7dLocation: Cambridge, UKHas thanked: 436 times Been thanked: 3718 times
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by Uberdude Wed Jun 04, 2014 3:37 am
Nice to see Ida experimenting with an unusual move in a top game. My prior understanding of it is that it's a bit of a trick: if black attaches to try cutting it off (most people's instinct) then white wedges and without the ladder black is unhappy. It's covered in Lee Chang Ho's book 'How to handle hamete'. The easy answer is 3-3: then if white pulls back it's like you answered the normal slide at 3-3 and white pushed into the corner instead of extending on the side, which is usually inferior. Or white can wedge in and it reverts to attaching on the corner and hane. I suppose on this board the point is black wouldn't answer the slide at 3-3 but pincer or attach on the outside, but also if black did 3-3 white would surely extend on the side rather than push in the corner? I guess Ida researched it and liked that fancy 1st line move he got later that threatens a ko or corner life. Tenuki (with ladder threat) was a nice answer by Iyama.
Knotwilg
Oza
Posts: 2432 Joined: Fri Jan 14, 2011 6:53 amRank: KGS 2d OGS 1d Fox 4dGD Posts: 0KGS: ArteveldeOGS: KnotwilgOnline playing schedule: UTC 18:00 - 22:00Location: Ghent, BelgiumHas thanked: 360 times Been thanked: 1021 times
Contact:
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by Knotwilg Wed Jun 04, 2014 3:39 am
Pippen
Lives in gote
Posts: 677 Joined: Thu Sep 16, 2010 3:34 pmGD Posts: 0KGS: 2dHas thanked: 6 times Been thanked: 31 times
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by Pippen Wed Jun 04, 2014 1:15 pm
Uberdude wrote: The easy answer is 3-3: then if white pulls back it's like you answered the normal slide at 3-3 and white pushed into the corner instead of extending on the side, which is usually inferior. Or white can wedge in and it reverts to attaching on the corner and hane. I suppose on this board the point is black wouldn't answer the slide at 3-3 but pincer or attach on the outside, but also if black did 3-3 white would surely extend on the side rather than push in the corner? I guess Ida researched it and liked that fancy 1st line move he got later that threatens a ko or corner life. Tenuki (with ladder threat) was a nice answer by Iyama.
It was a light move white wouldn't answer, if e.g. black played at 3-3. Right from the beginning white probably had in mind to use that stone just as a bait trap to extend comfortably on the side while this very stone could still serve for some aji...and that's exactly what happened later in the game.
By the way: It seems the game is on pause. When will it be continued?
Dusk Eagle
Gosei
Posts: 1758 Joined: Tue Apr 20, 2010 4:02 pmRank: 4dGD Posts: 0Has thanked: 378 times Been thanked: 375 times
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by Dusk Eagle Wed Jun 04, 2014 1:24 pm
It's 5:20am in Japan right now, so probably in a few hours from now.
We don't know who we are; we don't know where we are.
Bantari
Gosei
Posts: 1639 Joined: Sun Dec 06, 2009 6:34 pmGD Posts: 0Universal go server handle: BantariLocation: Ponte VedraHas thanked: 642 times Been thanked: 490 times
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by Bantari Wed Jun 04, 2014 7:59 pm
Backpack wrote: I´ve never seen move 8 but it appears to be playable.
Well... Obviously.
- Bantari
lemmata
Lives in gote
Posts: 370 Joined: Thu Feb 23, 2012 12:38 pmRank: WeakGD Posts: 0Has thanked: 91 times Been thanked: 254 times
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by lemmata Fri Jun 20, 2014 1:42 pm
Ida's thoughts were published in an interview on Oro. He shows some of the variations he had in mind as well as his planned response to the 3-3 point. So we have it from the horse's mouth.
$$B Ida's move
Click Here To Show Diagram Code [go]$$B Ida's moveWhy did he play this move? He wanted to avoid a common joseki variation that he did not feel like playing.
$$B What he wanted to avoid
Click Here To Show Diagram Code [go]$$B What he wanted to avoidThe usual recommendation for black is to play the 3-3 point. Ida had a planned response to this.
$$B White's pincer at b is no longer threatening because white can play at a and get very nice shape. Black is not as active on the outside as in the usual joseki.
Click Here To Show Diagram Code [go]$$B White's pincer at b is no longer threatening because white can play at a and get very nice shape. Black is not as active on the outside as in the usual joseki.Ida feared that Iyama would tenuki, which he did.
$$B After some forcing moves...
Click Here To Show Diagram Code [go]$$B After some forcing moves...$$B Ladder now works for black
Click Here To Show Diagram Code [go]$$B Ladder now works for black$$W Ida's preferred response to the marked stone.
Click Here To Show Diagram Code [go]$$W Ida's preferred response to the marked stone.
