Hello, a game of mine.
Any comments/help welcome.
I'm especially interested in how well I reduced black's moyo or what I should have done.
5k game
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Shawn Ligocki
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Re: 5k game
Hi iseijin,
I'm only a 7k, but I hope you don't mind that I leave some comments. Looking over this game there are several things that stand out to me. Of course as a weaker player, all my comments should come with a huge grain of salt, but I hope my comments can help. (If anyone thinks any of my suggestions are bad, please let me know so I can understand them better, thanks!)
Main things I noticed:
1) You played many "thank you" moves, that help Black to strengthen his moyo and remove your invasion options, I think
is the worst.
2) When trying to reduce, I think it helps to start at the edges between your moyo and his and reduce there. You threw in several stones in the middle of the board and Black got to make profit while chasing them.
3) Endgame is biggest at the edges. You played most of your endgame moves in the middle, but the edges had a huge amount of endgame potential, in the end Black got to take basically all of those big edge points and even got the Top Left corner! While you got a small reduction in the middle.
Comments through move 96.
I'm only a 7k, but I hope you don't mind that I leave some comments. Looking over this game there are several things that stand out to me. Of course as a weaker player, all my comments should come with a huge grain of salt, but I hope my comments can help. (If anyone thinks any of my suggestions are bad, please let me know so I can understand them better, thanks!)
Main things I noticed:
1) You played many "thank you" moves, that help Black to strengthen his moyo and remove your invasion options, I think
is the worst.2) When trying to reduce, I think it helps to start at the edges between your moyo and his and reduce there. You threw in several stones in the middle of the board and Black got to make profit while chasing them.
3) Endgame is biggest at the edges. You played most of your endgame moves in the middle, but the edges had a huge amount of endgame potential, in the end Black got to take basically all of those big edge points and even got the Top Left corner! While you got a small reduction in the middle.
Comments through move 96.
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- iseijin-Nurgle.sligocki.sgf
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Knotwilg
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Re: 5k game
Move 130: play one point higher. This will allow you to kill the corner. This would make a difference of about 30 points.
In strong territory, look for moves that kill. This is the major point in this game.
Cheers
In strong territory, look for moves that kill. This is the major point in this game.
Cheers
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Uberdude
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Re: 5k game
Just a few comments:
- Approach lower right before top right is normal and is easier to prevent big moyo if you don't like playing against them.
- Black r8 was bad: doesn't help corner enough
- Lower right 3-3 good
- e2 suspect: makes black stronger and says you want a territory game. If you leave this unplayed then your reducing moves around the lower side can cause more damage if you end up fighting into the lower side. h5 would be nice if black answered at h3, but probably j6 is a good answer and you then h3. You can still reduce top right of moyo.
- l6 no power after e2 etc, black should tenuki or play from outside, his m5 answer was laughably awful
- f17 big but given the moyo I prefer o16.
- 40 does what? help strong group? o16. Aiming d9 press to build your own moyo
- o10. o16. You get the idea....
- Approach lower right before top right is normal and is easier to prevent big moyo if you don't like playing against them.
- Black r8 was bad: doesn't help corner enough
- Lower right 3-3 good
- e2 suspect: makes black stronger and says you want a territory game. If you leave this unplayed then your reducing moves around the lower side can cause more damage if you end up fighting into the lower side. h5 would be nice if black answered at h3, but probably j6 is a good answer and you then h3. You can still reduce top right of moyo.
- l6 no power after e2 etc, black should tenuki or play from outside, his m5 answer was laughably awful
- f17 big but given the moyo I prefer o16.
- 40 does what? help strong group? o16. Aiming d9 press to build your own moyo
- o10. o16. You get the idea....
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Uberdude
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Re: 5k game
Knotwilg wrote:Move 130: play one point higher. This will allow you to kill the corner. This would make a difference of about 30 points.
Oh gosh, I stopped before then! You thought that was your corner right? It is criminal to not kill it. Spend a minute (or more if you need) to read the kill before playing (Even after 130 you can still kill with b18 at b17).
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Dusk Eagle
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Re: 5k game
You can even kill the corner on move 138, and on 140 you can get a ko, which is better than nothing.
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We're nameless things with no memory; no knowledge of what went before,
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Each of us woke up one moment and here we were in the darkness.
We're nameless things with no memory; no knowledge of what went before,
No understanding of what is now, no knowledge of what will be.
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vst
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Re: 5k game
Just some personal opinions:
30:I would like to play at S6 since it's sente for black. And after that I'd probably play 32 at D10, E2 is too small;black could just ignore you.
134 at A18 would kill black.
Overall other than some mistakes in reading I'd say you did just fine, it was mostly black who did a bad job defending his territory.
30:I would like to play at S6 since it's sente for black. And after that I'd probably play 32 at D10, E2 is too small;black could just ignore you.
134 at A18 would kill black.
Overall other than some mistakes in reading I'd say you did just fine, it was mostly black who did a bad job defending his territory.
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iseijin
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Re: 5k game
Thanks for all your comments.
And Shawn Ligocki, I saw B8 as the best endgame around there. I think black should react and I can keep sente with it. I could close the first line with it.
And yes, I for sure thought the upper left is my corner. With 130 I still thought I'd be able to kill it.
And Shawn Ligocki, I saw B8 as the best endgame around there. I think black should react and I can keep sente with it. I could close the first line with it.
And yes, I for sure thought the upper left is my corner. With 130 I still thought I'd be able to kill it.
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clemi
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Re: 5k game
Anyone any thoughts on the original move at 101 ?
FYI, Black should have played atari instead of descent. If white tries to save a stone by descending at A6, black can ignore and get sente. Otherwise, it is still black's endgame at A6.
That was a tricky move you played there
(gain two points in sente)
FYI, Black should have played atari instead of descent. If white tries to save a stone by descending at A6, black can ignore and get sente. Otherwise, it is still black's endgame at A6.
That was a tricky move you played there
(gain two points in sente)-
ez4u
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Re: 5k game
iseijin wrote:Thanks for all your comments.
And Shawn Ligocki, I saw B8 as the best endgame around there. I think black should react and I can keep sente with it. I could close the first line with it.
And yes, I for sure thought the upper left is my corner. With 130 I still thought I'd be able to kill it.
With 130, learn Uberdude's follow-up attachment at B17. It appears in a lot of similar corner situations. When Black answers B18, you pull back at B16 without playing the atari, leaving a gap at C18. This allows you to destroy Black's eyes by throwing in at 9 after the sequence shown.
When White answered Black's hane on the lower edge, Black could have played S3 and the rather startling S1 to force a ko in the corner. Black has a threat at 9 that is larger than any loss along the lower edge. If White answers the threat, it does not seem that White has a a sufficiently large threat when Black retakes the ko.
On second thought is White just dead with S6 and S2? Can Black catch one side or the other? If White hanes at 10, Black can build an eye with "a" through "c" and then White can not approach from the bottom. It looks like it is all over!
Dave Sigaty
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Uberdude
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Re: 5k game
ez4u wrote:With 130, learn Uberdude's follow-up attachment at B17. It appears in a lot of similar corner situations. When Black answers B18, you pull back at B16 without playing the atari, leaving a gap at C18. This allows you to destroy Black's eyes by throwing in at 9 after the sequence shown.
Though on this board white has b15 in place so can atari and then hane in the corner for a very simple 4 stones on the 2nd line are dead shape.
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cyclops
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Re: 5k game
N9 is a terrible stone in the diagram above. One that could have been avoided easily by not playing it.
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