A haengma to add to your arsenal

Uberdude · Post by **Uberdude** » Sat Jul 12, 2014 6:44 am

Here is an interesting shape I've seen in a few pro games:

Click Here To Show Diagram Code: [go]$$c Niu Yutian 7p (white) vs Zhou Ruiyang 4p B+1.5 19th Mingren 2006-09-27 $$ --------------------------------------- $$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . | $$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . | $$ | . . . . . X . O . . O . . . X . . . . | $$ | . . . O . . . . . , . . . . . , X . . | $$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . | $$ | . . O . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . | $$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . | $$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . | $$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . | $$ | . . . , . . . . . , . . . . . , . . . | $$ | . . . O . a 3 . . . . . . . . . . . . | $$ | . . . 2 . . . . . . . . . . . . X . . | $$ | . . . . 1 . . . . . . . . . X . . . . | $$ | . . O . . . . . . . . . . . . . O O . | $$ | . . . . . B . . . . . . . . . X . . . | $$ | . . . O . . . . . X . . . . . X O . . | $$ | . . . . . X . . . . . . . . . X O . . | $$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . | $$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . | $$ ---------------------------------------[/go]

The elephant jump between 1 and 3 looks like a weak shape and playing 3 at a might look more connected. But the thing to note here is that 1 is not an important stone and is a kikashi that helps bolster the connection between 3 and the marked stone. 3 is the important stone to grow the moyo, and at a would be too close to strong white stones. Also a would give white a good reduction point at h9 (aiming at f8/f10) If white strikes at the elephant eye black happily sacrifices 1 (EdLee needs to mute his broken shape detector) to build a wall and solidify the moyo:

Click Here To Show Diagram Code: [go]$$Wc Helping black $$ --------------------------------------- $$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . | $$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . | $$ | . . . . . X . O . . O . . . X . . . . | $$ | . . . O . . . . . , . . . . . , X . . | $$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . | $$ | . . O . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . | $$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . | $$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . | $$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . | $$ | . . . , . . . . . , . . . . . , . . . | $$ | . . . O . . X . . . . . . . . . . . . | $$ | . . . O . 1 2 . . . . . . . . . X . . | $$ | . . . . X 3 4 . . . . . . . X . . . . | $$ | . . O . . 5 6 . . . . . . . . . O O . | $$ | . . . . 7 X . . . . . . . . . X . . . | $$ | . . . O . 8 . . . X . . . . . X O . . | $$ | . . . . . X . . . . . . . . . X O . . | $$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . | $$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . | $$ ---------------------------------------[/go]

An example of how 1 bolsters the connection: in the extra large knights jump between the marked stones this white 1 is a common technique to cause some trouble, but the black e7 stone ends up making a useful atari.

Click Here To Show Diagram Code: [go]$$Wc Not effective for white $$ --------------------------------------- $$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . | $$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . | $$ | . . . . . X . O . . O . . . X . . . . | $$ | . . . O . . . . . , . . . . . , X . . | $$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . | $$ | . . O . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . | $$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . | $$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . | $$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . | $$ | . . . , . . . . . , . . . . . , . . . | $$ | . . . O . . B . . . . . . . . . . . . | $$ | . . . O . . . . . . . . . . . . X . . | $$ | . . . . X 1 2 . . . . . . . X . . . . | $$ | . . O . . 4 3 . . . . . . . . . O O . | $$ | . . . . . B . . . . . . . . . X . . . | $$ | . . . O . . . . . X . . . . . X O . . | $$ | . . . . . X . . . . . . . . . X O . . | $$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . | $$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . | $$ ---------------------------------------[/go]

Here's the full pro game:

And me fooling around with it in KGS blitz (so not exactly high quality, but note how if it were one line away white would have had more space to live inside, and making a moyo one line smaller so that you can kill the invader is better than being one line bigger but then they live inside):

Krama · Post by **Krama** » Sat Jul 12, 2014 3:51 pm

Interesting. Do you think studying haengma at my level is ok? How much will I benefit from knowing this, since the concept of it really seems cool and interesting. Also I did read about it on go sensei.

I am around 4-5 kyu KGS.

RobertJasiek · Post by **RobertJasiek** » Sat Jul 12, 2014 11:32 pm

Yes. - Consider also to choose every local move as the best available local move (instead of just the first random local move you might think of), i.e., once you have decided to play in some local area, perform a Local Move Selection.

wineandgolover · Post by **wineandgolover** » Sun Jul 13, 2014 3:28 am

Krama wrote:Interesting. Do you think studying haengma at my level is ok? How much will I benefit from knowing this, since the concept of it really seems cool and interesting. Also I did read about it on go sensei.

I am around 4-5 kyu KGS.

Yes, understanding haengma is useful at your level.

How much benefit? That seems hard to quantify. In Uber's example, how much better is the correct haengma, versus the knights move? I'd pay three or four points for it, I'd guess.

Anyway, finding a few more efficient moves per game should be worth a stone, eh?

wineandgolover · Post by **wineandgolover** » Sun Jul 13, 2014 3:31 am

RobertJasiek wrote:Yes. - Consider also to choose every local move as the best available local move (instead of just the first random local move you might think of), i.e., once you have decided to play in some local area, perform a Local Move Selection.

Is the capitalized "Local Move Selection" a Jasiek book concept, a programming term, or a generally accepted go term?

RobertJasiek · Post by **RobertJasiek** » Sun Jul 13, 2014 3:58 am

wineandgolover wrote:Is the capitalized "Local Move Selection" a Jasiek book concept, a programming term, or a generally accepted go term?

It need not be capitalised, but the capital letters are a reminder that this essential(!) concept recognised (and described a bit in writing since 2009) by me has not been generally accepted as go term yet. Regardless of the phrase, I have not seen the concept described by others yet. OTOH, I have not seen a strong player who would not show his implicit / subconscious understanding of the concept by the selection of his moves.

Uberdude · Post by **Uberdude** » Sun Jul 13, 2014 8:06 am

Krama wrote:Interesting. Do you think studying haengma at my level is ok? How much will I benefit from knowing this, since the concept of it really seems cool and interesting. Also I did read about it on go sensei.

I am around 4-5 kyu KGS.

Sure it's useful. I called this haengma rather than just shape as it has more of a feeling of movement (towards the centre); the flow of the stones. Whilst I would say this technique is dan-level, it's always good to expand your Go vocabulary.

Krama · Post by **Krama** » Sun Jul 13, 2014 10:32 am

Also considering this page http://senseis.xmp.net/?RankAndWhatYouKnow

Could you stronger players suggest what I should start to learn now? As I said I am roughly between 3-8 kyu on KGS (hard to tell the real strength)

At that sensei page I have seen some interesting suggestions about kyu/dan level and knowledge and I would like to know if you have anything to add.

However if this is not the topic to talk about it I could make another one?

Thank you

RobertJasiek · Post by **RobertJasiek** » Sun Jul 13, 2014 11:37 am

Krama wrote:Could you stronger players suggest what I should start to learn now? As I said I am roughly between 3-8 kyu on KGS (hard to tell the real strength)

Start with what is called the fundamentals.

ez4u · Post by **ez4u** » Sun Jul 13, 2014 3:32 pm

Back to the OP...

From GoGoD, the shape first appears in two games by Yu Bin in 1995. The main counter is to slip into the wider gap beyond Black 2.

Click Here To Show Diagram Code: [go]$$Wc Wang Jianhong - Yu Bin; Chinese National Team Tournament; 1995-05-12 $$ --------------------------------------- $$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . | $$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . X O O . . | $$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . O X X O . . | $$ | . . . O . X . . . , X . . . . X O . . | $$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . X . . . | $$ | . . . O . O . . . . . . . . . X O . . | $$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . X O . . | $$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . O . . | $$ | . . . . . . . . 4 . . 8 . . X . . . . | $$ | . . . , . . . . . 3 . . . . . , . . . | $$ | . . . O . . 2 . . . . . 7 . 9 . . . . | $$ | . . . 1 . . . . . 5 . . . . . . X . . | $$ | . . . . X . . . . . . . 0 . X . . . . | $$ | . . O . . . . . . 6 . . . . . . O O . | $$ | . . . . . X . . . . . . . . . X . . . | $$ | . . . O . . . . . X . . . . . X O . . | $$ | . . . . . X . . . . . . . . . X O . . | $$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . | $$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . | $$ ---------------------------------------[/go]

Click Here To Show Diagram Code: [go]$$Wc Wang Hongjin - Yu Bin; Chinese Nat. Team Tourn.; 1995-05-16 $$ --------------------------------------- $$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . | $$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . | $$ | . . . . . O . . . . . . . . . . . . . | $$ | . . . O . . . 1 O , . . . . . O . . . | $$ | . . . . . . X . . . . . . . . . . . . | $$ | . . X . X . . . . . . . . . . . . . . | $$ | . . . . . . . . 2 . . . . . . O . . . | $$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . | $$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . | $$ | . . . X . . 4 . 3 , . . . . . X . . . | $$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . | $$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . | $$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . | $$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . O . . | $$ | . . . . . . X . 0 . . 7 . . . . X X . | $$ | . . X X X . . . . , . 5 X X X X X O . | $$ | . . O O . O . X . . . 6 O O 9 O O O . | $$ | . . . . . O . . . . . 8 . . . . . . . | $$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . | $$ ---------------------------------------[/go]

There are also wider variants for Black 2...

Click Here To Show Diagram Code: [go]$$Wc Yi Se-tol - Kim Chi-seok; 18th GS Caltex Cup; 2013-04-22 $$ --------------------------------------- $$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . | $$ | . . . . . . . . . . 8 . . . . . . . . | $$ | . . . . . X . 5 . 7 6 . . X . . O . . | $$ | . . . O . . . . . 3 . . . . . X . O . | $$ | . . . 0 . X . . . . . . . . . . X O . | $$ | . . O . . . . 9 . 4 . . . . . X O O . | $$ | . . . . X . . . . . . . . . X O X . . | $$ | . . . 1 . . . . . . . . . . . . X . . | $$ | . . . O . . . 2 . . . . . . . . . . . | $$ | . . . , . . . . . , . . . . . X . . . | $$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . | $$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . | $$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . | $$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . | $$ | . . O . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . | $$ | . . . , . . . . . O . . . . . , X . . | $$ | . . . O . . . . . . . . . . X . . . . | $$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . | $$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . | $$ ---------------------------------------[/go]

Click Here To Show Diagram Code: [go]$$Wc Mao Ruilong - Tong Mengcheng; 2012 China Weiqi League; 2012-06-14 $$ --------------------------------------- $$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . | $$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . | $$ | . . . O . . . . . . . . . O . O O . . | $$ | . . O , . . . . . , . . . . . X . . . | $$ | . . O X . . . . . . . . . . . . X . . | $$ | . . X O . . . . . . . . . . . X O . . | $$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . | $$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . | $$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . X . . | $$ | . . . , . . . . . , . 4 . . . , . . . | $$ | . . . O . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . | $$ | . . . 1 . . . . 2 . . 3 . . . . . . . | $$ | . . . . X . . . . . . . . 0 . . . . . | $$ | . . O . . . . . . . . 6 8 9 . X . . . | $$ | . . . . . X . . . . . 5 7 . . . . . . | $$ | . . . O . . . . . , . . . . . , X . . | $$ | . . . . . X . . . . . X . . . . . . . | $$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . | $$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . | $$ ---------------------------------------[/go]

bengozen · Post by **bengozen** » Tue Jul 15, 2014 9:09 am

Learned something new today! Thanks for sharing. Very interesting haengma!

Life In 19x19

A haengma to add to your arsenal

A haengma to add to your arsenal

Re: A haengma to add to your arsenal

Re: A haengma to add to your arsenal

Re: A haengma to add to your arsenal

Re: A haengma to add to your arsenal

Re: A haengma to add to your arsenal

Re: A haengma to add to your arsenal

Re: A haengma to add to your arsenal

Re: A haengma to add to your arsenal

Re: A haengma to add to your arsenal

Re: A haengma to add to your arsenal